Jump to content
Alarum

Nantex: Fun and frustrating.

Recommended Posts

I played 4 Nantex in a local tournament and it was the most fun I have had playing the game in a long time. After the games I asked my opponents opinions of the ship.

”frustrating” was the overwhelming response. 

I am wondering if it just because the ship is new or if it is a negative play experience to play against.  

What has been your experience either playing with or against the Nantex?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's see, the ship has a Tractor effect (already not widely liked) which can't be stopped (as PTA is not "fully" execute, and Ensnare is not an action), which means that your opponent literally has more agency over where your ships end up than you do, and gets to hit you harder while he's at it because of the -1 agility. Oh, and 2 of them get to hit you even harder on top of that with their pilot abilities.

So, yeah, I'm pretty sure it's frustrating because it's a steaming pile of NPE trash and possibly the most broken ship the game has seen since Tragic Genius Nym.

But that's just me.

Edited by DR4CO

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I played against two of them flown by good players at a hyperspace yesterday both with Sun Fac and droid support. Killed him within two rounds of fighting both times. You shoot them they die, they're honestly glorified Z-95s in terms of their base chassis. There are a great many cards in the deck which wreck them: panicked pilot, damaged engine, and especially damaged sensor array all essentially shut down the ship. Never mind that none of their shenanigans work on mediums or larges unless you bring multiple. People are simply scared because it's a ship that preys on a lot of what's popular right now: 3-4 small ships that don't actually hit that hard.

There's a great ship in the design somewhere, and maybe someone will figure out a world's class list with it. I'd say they have their work cut out for them.

Edited by DarkArk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe the ships are definitely high skill/high reward. They are very difficult to play, unless you naturally have a very aggressive play style with the foresight to have your Turret in the right direction at all time. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Only played 1 game against Sun Fac so far, I ended up winning but frustrating is pretty spot on. I thought I had him dead on round 3, not being able to block them from repositioning is the worst.

 

Just have to catch them at range 2 / 3 I guess.

Edited by FendleyFire

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, svelok said:

As is my personal crusade, I'd like to remind everyone how overwhelmingly wholesome the Nantex is without Ensnare.

They maybe shouldn't have designed that card, but they definitely made it too cheap.

It has its downsides - [1] it can't turn when it boosts, and [2] it's very dependent on lining up a bullseye to get your money's worth offensively out of a more expensive pilot (something not helped by [1]), but yeah, it's a great little chassis and ensnare is by no means compulsory.

Give it Gravetic Deflection and it can reposition on a turn-by-turn basis with very little downside. Add in a very flexible dial (very few ships have every speed of turn and every speed of bank and I can't think of any that do and also have the ability to fire sideways) and their mobile arc and they can circle-strafe like it's 1994 and they're playing Doom II.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

What does Gravitic Deflection actually do? Someone run this thru with me? 

When you are being shot at you can reroll a defence dice for each ship that is tractored in the shooting ships fire arc. That includes the Nantex that is being shot at if it has a tractor token.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, svelok said:

As is my personal crusade, I'd like to remind everyone how overwhelmingly wholesome the Nantex is without Ensnare.

Yeah I so wish that ensnare were double the price and every nantex was a little cheaper.  Bullseye primary with a cool pilot ability that also has a high risk/reward?  Yes please!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, DarkArk said:

People are simply scared because it's a ship that preys on a lot of what's popular right now: 3-4 small ships that don't actually hit that hard.

I think this is it, really.  People love their high Init aces and hate it when something messes with them.  Personally,  I find high Init aces as being NPE, so I am quite happy with something that messes with them.  It makes me want to take them to a tournament just to play these ships.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They are just odd to face, trying to stay out of range of the Ensnare while getting shots on them can be a bit of a task.

I don't dislike the ship, they look cool and would be fun to fly.

Ensnare however can die in a fire, that card is just infuriating.

Edited by Brad84

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Alarum said:

When you are being shot at you can reroll a defence dice for each ship that is tractored in the shooting ships fire arc. That includes the Nantex that is being shot at if it has a tractor token.

It also applies to both friendly and enemy ships - since 'better' pilots have two talent slots, building them with Ensnare and Gravetic Deflection isn't impossible, and - in theory - you can transfer your tractor token to an enemy, drag them somewhere where they don't get a shot, restore your third defence die and still use them to block incoming fire from someone else aimed at you.

That's a lot harder than it sounds in practice, though.

12 minutes ago, Ablazoned said:

Yeah I so wish that ensnare were double the price and every nantex was a little cheaper.  Bullseye primary with a cool pilot ability that also has a high risk/reward?  Yes please!

Thing is, the Nantex is pretty much same price as an Omega Squadron TIE/sf or Dorsal Turret Onyx Squadron Scout, both of which have the same initiative, talent slot and ability to fire in random directions. Yes, it's more fragile (4 hits rather than 6 or 5) but it's also agility 3 and with a much better dial. I think the basic Stalgasin Hive Guard is pretty much bob on for price.

Although, personally as someone who may occasionally have been noted to favour swarm-ier squads, I would love to see a 1 point saving which would permit me to use a 6-ship element akin to a swarm of dorsal turret Y-wings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have flown the Nantex with Ensnare at init 4 with Chertek for 2 games this week-end, flying it with Dooku and Maul.

I can say that this ship is indeed very useful. But in my 2 games, when my opponent has decided to fire on one, it was completely out of the game, and has become an easy target. And when you are an easy target, ensnare doesn't do much good. And I haven't faced meta lists (1st was Vader and 3 inquisitors, and second was Whisper with 2 AGGs and 2 TIEs).

I admit that 10 points for init 4 ensnare is a good bang for the buck, especially that it triggers at the start of engagement. But I do not see myself paying 24 points with the 54 of Sun Fac to get it at init 6. That is A LOT (Maul alone is 67 for a double tap), and the reposition of the Nantex is not good enough compared to the other aces (interceptor Vader with AT, ...) to think of keeping him to the endgame. And 80 points is a lot of points for 4 hull. If you shoot at it, it will die.

IMO Ensnare is more the frustrating point than the Nantex. Maybe putting a more gradual point scale (16-17 points for init 4) would give hard choices for list building.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, svelok said:

As is my personal crusade, I'd like to remind everyone how overwhelmingly wholesome the Nantex is without Ensnare.

They maybe shouldn't have designed that card, but they definitely made it too cheap.

Yep.  Without Ensnare, it's pretty much an RZ-2.  A bit different, in that it's 3 green dice aren't always there, the boosts are odd, and the 3-red Bullseye is a nice tool, but it's a close-enough comparison.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Chudley said:

with the foresight to have your Turret in the right direction at all time. 

You mean the wrong way so you can make it face the right way?

I've not played with or against it yet, but I'd love to know how often they can get ensnare off, as you can't use the ship ability if you want to keep the arc in the same place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Roundy1161 said:

You mean the wrong way so you can make it face the right way?

I've not played with or against it yet, but I'd love to know how often they can get ensnare off, as you can't use the ship ability if you want to keep the arc in the same place.

the 1 hard turns helps a lot about that. You can target left or right, and with 1 hard and brolling left/right with the tractor token, you may get the arc in front. The other tuirn would be left or right again. That means 3 turns with ensnare, enough to kill if you have the firepower behind your Nantex.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Roundy1161 said:

You mean the wrong way so you can make it face the right way?

I've not played with or against it yet, but I'd love to know how often they can get ensnare off, as you can't use the ship ability if you want to keep the arc in the same place.

I was getting 1-2 Ensnares off every turn after the first long range engagement. I found that wit hard turns and multiple Ensnares you can cast a wide enough net to grab something. Worst case scenario you try to get all your tractor tokens on to one Nantex so the others have more green dice if they manage to slip the net.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

Yep.  Without Ensnare, it's pretty much an RZ-2.  A bit different, in that it's 3 green dice aren't always there, the boosts are odd, and the 3-red Bullseye is a nice tool, but it's a close-enough comparison.

One other point I'd make is that Sun Fac's ability requires a tractored target but not necessarily one tractored by him.

Swarm Tactics/heightened perception and a tractor beam and getting your tractor token that way leaves enough points left over for seperatists to buy an entire 'nother droid fighter. this goes double if the CIS get a small based cannon-carrier at some point.

Edited by Magnus Grendel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

One other point I'd make is that Sun Fac's ability requires a tractored target but not necessarily one tractored by him.

Swarm Tactics/heightened perception and a tractor beam and getting your tractor token that way leaves enough points left over for seperatists to buy an entire 'nother droid fighter. this goes double if the CIS get a small based cannon-carrier at some point.

I've been contemplating 4 Nantex -- three Init 3 generics with Ensnare, and Sun Fac without (like, GravDef and Predator or Trick Shot).  Or non-Ensnare Sun Fac, with Ensnare Berwer Kret, and a pair of Belbullabs.

All theoretical, I've been busy since Friday, so won't be able to get into Wave 5 stuff until Tuesday at the earliest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ran the following Sun Fac list yesterday and with a bid, it is mean:

Sun Fac (54)    
    Ensnare (24)    
    Predator (2)    
    
Ship total: 80  Half Points: 40  Threshold: NaN    
    
Trade Federation Drone (19)    
Ship total: 19  Half Points: 10  Threshold: 2    
    
Trade Federation Drone (19)    
Ship total: 19  Half Points: 10  Threshold: 2    
    
Trade Federation Drone (19)    
Ship total: 19  Half Points: 10  Threshold: 2    
    
Trade Federation Drone (19)    
Ship total: 19  Half Points: 10  Threshold: 2    
    
Trade Federation Drone (19)    
Ship total: 19  Half Points: 10  Threshold: 2    
    
DFS-311 (23)    
Ship total: 23  Half Points: 12  Threshold: 2    
    
    
Total: 198    
    
View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0: https://raithos.github.io/?f=Separatist Alliance&d=v8ZsZ200Z357X248W127Y279XWWY279XWWY279XWWY279XWWY279XWWY337XWW&sn=Sun Fac Swarm&obs=

I had the bid each time so that helped a ton but the Nantex's ability to either draw fire or setup the swarm is legendary. It doesn't want to get shot at though and it's super vulnerable at range. The damaged engine crit is catastrophic to it but if you fly it right you can handle a whole lot of the field.

Biggest challenge was planning the arcs correctly as you have to sort of think sideways with it - I turned "away" from a lot of things just to tractor barrel in and move them places. Honestly, Sun Fac's offense is secondary to his real utility - dishing out tractors to high init aces.

Excited to try this thing more! Will definitely drop predator though - rarely came up and I'd prefer more of a bid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Or non-Ensnare Sun Fac, with Ensnare Berwer Kret, and a pair of Belbullabs.

....I was going to say that if taking Ensnare on a unique, take it on Chertek, because he benefits so much more than Berwer Kret.

However, if those Bubblebath-22s are Feethan Ottraw Autopilots, Berwer Kret potentially uses his ability on them - if he hits, he gives them a target locked, calculating 3-dice primary attack on a tractored target. It's hard to overstate how much that could hurt, and if the Bulbasaur's draw fire of the Nantex...so much the better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...