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R3dReVenge

Are Tauntauns Overpowered? Discuss...

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1 hour ago, buckero0 said:

Wait...so the main complaint is that the general netlist of 3 sniper teams and max infantry hasn't figured out how to deal with 3 units of polar camels in the 4 weeks since their release. 

It's good to have counters in the game, it makes more list types viable which encourages smart play rather than netlisting. I like balance. Not to mention majority of the players who are casual players can enjoy the hame as well.

I guess reading comprehension isn’t your thing.

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14 minutes ago, R3dReVenge said:

I guess reading comprehension isn’t your thing.

Nope, he’s right I’d say and I am happy about it.

 

This is an oversimplification, but ATM:

1. Sniper & Trooper gunlines < Melee rush

2. Melee rush < Cav rush

3. Cav rush < Gunline

*insert armour to taste

With this trinity, the game meta is the healthiest it has been in a while.  It’s no longer a given my Wookies would be playing up-hill against the same exact max sniper list every single time.  People need to step back and realize this was sorely needed and adjust, rather than whinging to get the broken status quo back.

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I have yet to play against them so I can’t really speak on the subject.

The only thing that worries me a little about them is if they get into melee (I don’t think it should be too hard with their speed), they are nearly immune to concentrate fire because you can’t shoot an engaged trooper.

But they don’t seems overpowered to me, just something to think about when list building.

Edited by Red Castle

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4 minutes ago, Kwatchi said:

Nope, he’s right I’d say and I am happy about it.

 

This is an oversimplification, but ATM:

1. Sniper & Trooper gunlines < Melee rush

2. Melee rush < Cav rush

3. Cav rush < Gunline

*insert armour to taste

With this trinity, the game meta is the healthiest it has been in a while.  It’s no longer a given my Wookies would be playing up-hill against the same exact max sniper list every single time.  People need to step back and realize this was sorely needed and adjust, rather than whinging to get the broken status quo back.

I guess it isn't your thing either. Read my first post and you'll see why. 

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1 hour ago, R3dReVenge said:

I guess it isn't your thing either. Read my first post and you'll see why. 

We're not responding to your 1st post (I already did that) I was summarizing all the anti-tauntaun opinions flying around after your 1st post. They most boil down to "we don't like playing against THIS type of rebel list, because it's harder to play against than the slow everyone dies before the game is over type of rebel list"

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13 hours ago, MasterShake2 said:

So, observationally, the issue isn't A unit of Tauntauns, it's multiple units of Tauntauns.  You can maybe suppress down 1 Tauntaun unit and it will get a mere 3 actions (depending on whether you count the free pivot), but that also means you're doing nothing to other 1 or (god have mercy on you for Tauntauns will not) 2 units.  Also, they get cover way easier than people think on the way in (unit leader in the open, throw the joe behind something big).  Their bases are larger than normal, so the 1 template plus base size can actually allow them to toss the joe into heavy cover WAY more often than most people think on the way in (although they generally won't have it when they get to your lines, but at that point, it's probably already over).

-

The other issue is that they aren't prohibited from moving normally while engaged.  Combined with the flexibility of being able to shoot or melee after moving, and you can keep them engaged a lot which allows them to functionally neutralize multiple units at the same time while still getting value.

-

The last issue is just their consistency. With easy access to dodges that are automatic damage mitigation and Ram allowing automatic results, Tauntauns are almost impervious to bad dice.  Not quite because you still have enemy defense dice and if the other player can catch them before they activate, they're out of dodges, but you will find yourself having to confront these automatic results more often than not.  Playing the triple Tauntaun + double T-47 list, my observation was that it's defense and offense was so consistent that it was legitimately hard for the dice to fail hard enough to hurt you...but your opponents dice could totally fail and if this happened in the first 1-2 turns, well, just extend your hand and accept the loss.

-

Tauntauns and the new T-47s are both in the same category in that, one is fine, if annoying.  2+ becomes a serious problem very quickly.

-

...all that being said, if you take Tauntauns away from me, I will end you...nothing personal.

I love your list with tauntauns and T-47s it will cause people to adapt and help mitigate sniper saturation. Tauntauns must be allowed to live and may just require new tactics to deal with before we start nerfing them

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10 minutes ago, TauntaunScout said:

I've been waiting 30 years for a miniatures kit like this (multiple poses of non-unique rebels on tauntauns). Let it be overpowered to the moon and back.

But no I don't think they're overpowered. I think people aren't used to them yet.

I would echo this sentiment. 

I have both armies, but am always saddled with the Rebels because my son likes to play Imperials - Its ok that the Rebels have something that can hit hard and takes time to knock down.

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1 hour ago, Anaxander said:

I went against Luke and 2 riders with my Krennic/Veers Death Trooper list. Neither survived concentrated fire at range 4. 

I would think this type of list would be what does best against tauntauns

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9 minutes ago, Djaskim609 said:

Are Tauntauns the rebel deathtroopers?

Depends on the meaning.  The Creature Troopers are more core set analogs, with the Tauntauns being living speeder bikes and the Dewback being a living AT-RT.

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Just now, LunarSol said:

Depends on the meaning.  The Creature Troopers are more core set analogs, with the Tauntauns being living speeder bikes and the Dewback being a living AT-RT.

I just meant a powerful unit for opposing players to complain about/fear (without getting into justifications or not). 

Based on your response--will the dewbacks be better AR-Rt's?

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4 minutes ago, Djaskim609 said:

I just meant a powerful unit for opposing players to complain about/fear (without getting into justifications or not). 

Based on your response--will the dewbacks be better AR-Rt's?

The AT-RT is just... weird. After the points adjustment, they're probably in line with the dewbacks power-wise, but they'll still be annoyingly immobile and aim token dependent. And then there's that awful defense die...

Edited by Squark

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I'd probably give it to the AT-RT.  The difference in cost puts their durability pretty similar despite the difference in their saves so a lot depends on how many regular hits beyond the first are negated by armor.  I think for their cost the AT-RT has a lot better output with the cost reduction on the rotary though, which is what gives it the nod for me.  The dewbacks have a significant mobility benefit that might give them the edge with a flamethrower and their melee.  They're similar units, but I see 3 AT-RTs acting as stationary turrets doing a little better than a pair of rampaging dewbacks that spit fire.

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@Alpha17
"Their action economy is ridiculously good,"

See, the thing is, it's not if you take into consideration that 2 dodges is effectively just temporary heavy (or 2x light) cover.

@LunarSol
"They do a little too much, particularly for their cost.  If I was to make a change, I'd start by making Agile a once per round ability just to cut into their durability a little."

Bearing in mind that they don't benefit from normal cover OR suppression, that is a huge overcorrection.
They're weak to first strike attacks, and even if they move first, if they aren't in melee afterwards you can focus fire them down fairly easily. (Yes, it's mildly less efficient than hitting them before they activate, but it's still more efficient than attacking enemy trooper units that already have suppression; because those troopers will have cover 1, shedding more hits than the tauntauns can).

 

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2 minutes ago, Derrault said:

@Alpha17
"Their action economy is ridiculously good,"

See, the thing is, it's not if you take into consideration that 2 dodges is effectively just temporary heavy (or 2x light) cover.

@LunarSol
"They do a little too much, particularly for their cost.  If I was to make a change, I'd start by making Agile a once per round ability just to cut into their durability a little."

Bearing in mind that they don't benefit from normal cover OR suppression, that is a huge overcorrection.
They're weak to first strike attacks, and even if they move first, if they aren't in melee afterwards you can focus fire them down fairly easily. (Yes, it's mildly less efficient than hitting them before they activate, but it's still more efficient than attacking enemy trooper units that already have suppression; because those troopers will have cover 1, shedding more hits than the tauntauns can).

 

They can still get cover, and it stacks with the dodges.  Since they can theoretically get 3 dodges, and combine that with cover 2, they still can be ridiculously hard to root out.  Oh, and add on to that hyper defense is the ability to move and shoot while gaining said dodges.  If that's not a ridiculously good action economy, I don't know what is. 

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16 minutes ago, Alpha17 said:

They can still get cover, and it stacks with the dodges.  Since they can theoretically get 3 dodges, and combine that with cover 2, they still can be ridiculously hard to root out.  Oh, and add on to that hyper defense is the ability to move and shoot while gaining said dodges.  If that's not a ridiculously good action economy, I don't know what is. 

If you happen to have a giant (but not too giant) piece of terrain, sure? That still makes them worse than Rebel Troopers in the same situation (except in the incredibly rare case of a one shot for the exact number of hits to wounds happens)

I mean, movements great and all, but it’s not raw defense.

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30 minutes ago, Derrault said:

@Alpha17
"Their action economy is ridiculously good,"

See, the thing is, it's not if you take into consideration that 2 dodges is effectively just temporary heavy (or 2x light) cover.

@LunarSol
"They do a little too much, particularly for their cost.  If I was to make a change, I'd start by making Agile a once per round ability just to cut into their durability a little."

Bearing in mind that they don't benefit from normal cover OR suppression, that is a huge overcorrection.
They're weak to first strike attacks, and even if they move first, if they aren't in melee afterwards you can focus fire them down fairly easily. (Yes, it's mildly less efficient than hitting them before they activate, but it's still more efficient than attacking enemy trooper units that already have suppression; because those troopers will have cover 1, shedding more hits than the tauntauns can).

 

A huge overcorrection?  That's literally one of the smallest changes I can imagine. 😖

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2 hours ago, JediPartisan said:

Well I’m not sure where I come down on the TaunTaun debate, but I do think it’s curious that the name Tauntaun sounds like the music for Jaws.

Taun...taun... taun...taun... taun...taun.

...now I cannot get the start of this 

out of my head... 

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