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Jedu

Sun Fac cost - how many is too many?

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I think whatever the price is, we'll get complaints that it is both too cheap and that it is too expensive.

For many players, they'll try it a couple times, be thrown by the wonky style, and right the craft off as garbage that needs to be dirt-cheap to be playable.

Some players, though, I expect to really dig into its capabilities and use it to its full potential, and their opponents will claim that it's OP and needs a massive increase.

I'm not sure what price is fair, but expect a lot of griping when it releases.

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19 hours ago, PhantomFO said:

Was just discussing this on Slack with some other players. Fac needs the target to be "Tractored" for his ability to trigger counts for a lot. He'll be a nightmare for small-based aces to deal with, but medium and larger ships won't have as much of problem.

He's also going to be limited by stress. He doesn't have blue hard turns, so he'll have issues maintaining arc while clearing stress tokens. Rotating his arc is an action, so double-stress, Wounded Pilot and Damaged Sensor Array will all cause problems for him.

EDIT: the Tractored status may also need errata, as the current text would imply that Fac could pull off a double move at the end of activation by triggering PTA, using the tractor token to move, using Ensnare to give the token to a friendly wingbug, and then that bug uses Ensnare to move Fac again. Not sure the value of this, but it's like pulling off a speed-3 straight boost.

You do realize you are tractored as soon as a single tractor token is applied to you. You only perform the boost/barrel roll once your token stack matches the base size.

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4 hours ago, Okapi said:

He can also be blocked, same as Soontir, Fenn or Poe.

Sure, a block denies Sun Fac a focus or evade token.

But unlike Soontir, Fenn, or Poe, Sun Fac can tractor their self after bumping.  A single reposition isn't necessarily too much, but it matters.  They'll also be able to pass that tractor token along with Ensnare, which again, can matter.

Edited by theBitterFig

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15 minutes ago, Hujoe Bigs said:

You do realize you are tractored as soon as a single tractor token is applied to you. You only perform the boost/barrel roll once your token stack matches the base size.

No, you're the one misreading the rulebook a little.

Quote

A ship is Tractored while it has equal to or greater than a specific number of tractor tokens, according to its size: a small ship requires at least one tractor token, a medium ship requires at least two tractor tokens, and a large ship require at least three tractor tokens. [...]

After a ship becomes Tractored, the player whose effect applied the tractor token may choose one of the following effects: [Barrel Roll] [Boost] [...]

During the Engagement Phase, a ship with one or more tractor tokens rolls one fewer defense die.

(RR v1.04, p.19)

 

Edited by theBitterFig

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28 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

It's also the only upgrade slot on any Nantex

To be honest not only was I expecting the Nantex to have a mod slot (Targeting Computer and Stealth Device in the kit), but I thought the v1 would get one as well (it comes with Afterburners). Looks like the Fang and the 'burners wasn't just a hastily corrected mistake then.

Got decently close with my guesses, except I didn't expect Ensnare to be a whopping 24 points on Sun. Chertek is looking more and more interesting, at 50-52 points with Ensnare and Crack Shot/Marksmanship/Predator/Elusive. Great same initative wingmate for Grievous.

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6 minutes ago, Zazaa32 said:

But hail to the Petranaki Arena Ace who goes with ensnare and predator for 50p and has I4! 

Im still bit baffled by that missing modification slot that I was auto including in my head for some reason? :ph34r:

Four of those might make a pretty hilarious list, come to think of it.

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10 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

I feel like this just has to be telegraphing to us that the TIE Interceptor will get the same treatment at the next adjustment.

It has to be, right?

The TIE interceptor gets multiple modifications as a comparatively unique thing, though.

11 hours ago, Okapi said:

To be honest not only was I expecting the Nantex to have a mod slot (Targeting Computer and Stealth Device in the kit), but I thought the v1 would get one as well (it comes with Afterburners). Looks like the Fang and the 'burners wasn't just a hastily corrected mistake then.

I wasn't surprised they didn't add a mod to the TIE/v1 - afterburners is a modification that only exists in the core set, not conversion kits, so this is a way for an Imperial Player who doesn't want a core set to get one (or to get more!). But the Nantex having two modifications in the box, including one which is in LOTS of expansions (including Servants of Strife, so it's not even a case of 'this is the only way a pure Separatist Player gets this card'!) makes me very surprised it has no modification slot.

9 hours ago, Jedu said:

78 points with Ensnare. 83 with also gravitic deflection.

Indeed. Ensnare is kind of understandable being that expensive, though. If a player really knows their stuff, in theory (which may fall apart in practice!) it's a combination of supernatural reflexes and spacetug tractor array, allowing you to reposition yourself and your target without so much as touching your actions or your defensive capability. It needs to be expensive as heck.

More to the point, without it, Sun Fac is distinctly so-so. He's still not awful - I6, a great dial, repositioning which reduces his green dice but doesn't stress him and hence doesn't limit his movement next turn, only 2 dice in his 'normal' primary but the ability to slew it to the side and still 3 dice in a centreline shot, and (most importantly) a fourth hull point which means quite a bit on an elusive agility-3 ace. Without Ensnare, I don't think he's game-breaking, but I think he can still slot into a squad as a budget ace in the same way a cheap 'Duchess' or Soontir Fel can slot into an Imperial squad without breaking the bank.

Most important to using him right is using multiple ships in co-operation. If you want to field Sun Fac with Ensnare and Gravetic Deflection, he's eye-wateringly expensive. But putting Ensnare on a wing-bug is potentially less than half the price. He and Chertek don't care if the token tractoring their target was one they generated or not.

 

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I’m slow, don’t mind me, but I haven’t really realized until now that talents scale up in points depending upon the pilot equipping it. I’ve been playing mainly on a web based site using 1.0 rules, so I guess it didn’t apply  

I guess, flavor wise, this make sense, but it’s not like it’s easier for one pilot to use over another. Why would it cost more? I don’t know, I’m just trying to equate it to say paying more mana to put equipment on more powerful creature in MTG...

Anyway, That aside, why is Ensare SOOO skewed for Sun Fac?! 14 point difference between the other Nantex seems high, imo. Is this simply because it’s so much more dangerous on an I6, having the ability to manipulate an opp last before activation phase? 

Edit: Ok, I see that Supernatural Reflexes goes from 8/16/24/32 as initiative increases as well. 

Edited by K-2SO

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16 minutes ago, K-2SO said:

Anyway, That aside, why is Ensare SOOO skewed for Sun Fac?! 14 point difference between the other Nantex seems high, imo. Is this simply because it’s so much more dangerous on an I6, having the ability to manipulate an opp last before activation phase? 

Yes. If your opponent tosses you out of arc or onto a rock at I6, and it’s cheap enough to always bring, you’re going to get a little salty pretty fast. 

I don’t think anyone really knows how well this will work on the table until they try / see it, but if it’s too easy to set up tractors in a faction known for bringing lots of guns, it’s not going to be fun. It’s cheaper up through I4 because you can see where their arc is and reposition out if necessary and appropriate, but at I5 and I6 you can lose a lot of agency alarmingly quickly. 

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6 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

The TIE interceptor gets multiple modifications as an entirely worthless thing, though.

Generic Interceptors don’t want 2 mods. They don’t want ONE mod. They’d like intimidation as blockers, Outmaneuver as flankers, or crack or predator as snipers.

2 mods are as useless on the Interceptor as they are on the Kihraxz. It’s a nod to 1st edition, but it doesn’t make sense for lore or gameplay. They desperately need the A-Wing treatment.

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23 minutes ago, PaulRuddSays said:

Yes. If your opponent tosses you out of arc or onto a rock at I6, and it’s cheap enough to always bring, you’re going to get a little salty pretty fast. 

I don’t think anyone really knows how well this will work on the table until they try / see it, but if it’s too easy to set up tractors in a faction known for bringing lots of guns, it’s not going to be fun. It’s cheaper up through I4 because you can see where their arc is and reposition out if necessary and appropriate, but at I5 and I6 you can lose a lot of agency alarmingly quickly. 

Tried out Sun Fac...and the mod slot being taken away was probably a late adjustment and rightly so. Afterburners on Sun Fac would be ridiculously too good for him. He's not too expensive, unsure if too cheap because I'm at least thinking while list building which is a good thing, but dang is he effective. 

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