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Meta Counter Central: How to Fight...

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2 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

I always try to look for ways to exploit a stalling opponent. The droids arent phantoms so they cant lateral fort you. The can 1 turn roll, or continue on a forward path k turn and blue turn to clear. They setup a weird kinda stalling fort but its not unapproachable. 

The key for me with vulture lists now is just a partial first engage followed by a close in engage where some portion of their list cant focus fire. Thats been seeming largely acheivable regardless of what the swarm player is doing.

 

I think a partial engage is more viable vs Sear than Missile droids.  Partial engages against missile droids is hard to do because it rarely hits hard enough to remove firepower and usually costs a lot of damage or just an entire ship (basically the Danger zone around a Sear droid list can present a greater threat, but is significantly smaller because it doesn't use the R3 range band anywhere near as well as missile droids). 

 

Sear, you ideally want to partial engage at R3, then split their attention and resources when you full engage.  Missile droids have to be stuttered and then jump to R1 to try and remove multiple ships at close range before they shoot because even 4 droids at R3 with calc lock missiles will consistently down an ace.

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On ‎9‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 6:18 PM, Boom Owl said:

SFSFSFSFSFSF

  • Lots of durability, lots of arcs of fire, lots of good attack dice modifiers, and a great dial.
    • Area effect weapons are always nice against multi-ship formations.
    • One thing to note is that whilst advanced optics/fanatical means getting 2 hits is very reliable, they 'cap out' at 2 hits unless getting a bonus die for some reason. That means that anything with agility-3 and decent defensive modifiers has a good chance of shrugging off a lot of hits - yes, they can put a lot of shots into a target but ultimately the squad only has 5 primary-2 attacks; finding (for example) Fenn Rau parked at range 1, and even if half the squad has range 1 shots, there's a pretty decent chance nothing will hit. TIE defenders out at range 3 are the same.
    • Concentrated fire above all else. Fanatical is great value and very powerful. But it only 'works' from hit 3 to hit 6 on the ship - and at agility 2 it's actually easier to kill that 'block' of damage than for an agility 3 TIE/fo. If you can pick one TIE/sf and blow it away in a single engagement phase (not easy but not impossible) then it will never benefit from fanatical.
On ‎9‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 6:18 PM, Boom Owl said:

Vader Soontir+ 

  • One other thing to note about Vader: He's not great at going slow.
    • Whilst he has a speed 1 straight, it's white not blue, and he lacks speed 1 turns. Added to that, afterburners are amazing and @Boom Owl is not wrong that they're near-automatic choices. They are, however, only functional at speed 3+, so at speed 1 not only is Vader unable to turn but he's also unable to boost without voluntarily damaging himself (and that only if packing eye-wateringly expensive supernatural reflexes). He can't fight in close the way the Grand Inquisitor could.

 

On ‎9‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 6:18 PM, Boom Owl said:

Sloane+

Sloane plus a swarm - regardless of the details - wants to feeds you expendable assets and then, once you kill said expendable unit and are bleeding stress, hammer you with massed rerolled fire.

  • Killing Sloane as fast as possible is obviously good but she will be on the most protected asset your opponent has. A reinforced Lambda or Captain Feroph takes a lot of killing, and she is most likely to be either at the heart of the swarm or on a flank to 'draw' your attack through the swarm. Just like any swarm + support ship, don't accept a head-on pass in order to kill the support ship.
  • The swarm is nailed to a generally unmanouvrable platform but it's a range 1-3 leash, so it's pretty flexible. That said, if your opponent starts breaking off from Sloane it's not easy to get back on line with her.
  • Used linked reposition only if it's going to dodge arcs of fire entirely. Being stressed is fine if you're not being shot at.
  • Try to attack the squad from an angle. Not only does this avoid the head-on-pass-of-death you should never accept from a swarm if you have a choice, but it also means (hopefully) that after the initial pass you can turn to pursue rather than having to do a 180 koiogran and accept stress. Alternatively, if you get a kill and are double-stressed, you can turn away without running square into the swarm.
    • Don't hesitate to pick apart a ship on the flank, run, clear stress, then come around again and re-engage. A persistant close-quarter 'scrum' favours the squad with many 2-dice primary ships, blockers, passive modifications and easily inflicted stress-causing capabilities.
  • This is slightly squad-building advice, but it's general advice:
    • This is one of those times where having multiple ships with the same initiative helps. This is because Sloane only gets her stress-dump on the ship which lands the kill-shot. If you can chop and change each turn who's getting that shot, you're in a better position to encourage the swarm player to split fire - do you want to fire at the stressed-but-intact target, or the target you previously damaged?
    • Obviously anything which lets you burn off stress quickly is good.

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On 9/7/2019 at 10:18 AM, Boom Owl said:

 

 

49 minutes ago, Force Majeure said:

@wurms You've been summoned.

I trust your insight and would be interested in your perspective on on how to deal with some of these archetypes.

HAHA, Im flattered but scared this is a test :P

Ive played against them all but the scummy ones. I will say, the strategy to most of these is to approach at multiple angles. Lots of these swarms, formation lists do well when then can attack one ship, out joust it, then easily move on to the next while the opponent is scrambling to kturn, or not get blocked, or runaway and setup another pass, etc. If your ships are not range 1 synergized like Jess Pava, then dont be near each other. When you come at different angles and you dont have to kturn, then you just have to do simple bank maneuvers to get shots.

 

IMPORTANT TIPS from OP Post:

Torkil Cartel (*have no game experience vs this list. Just my general thoughts on approaching it)

  • Get a first engage from outside of Torkils Arc to chip some damage in before he starts to I0 things
    • I think this is probably the most crucial step in attacking this list. Hurt a khiraxzcxcvx before a torkhil range. Next round, hopefully the rest of your list that doesnt get dragged down to ps0, can finish a Khirazxczvzx off. Then send everything you have at torkhil or seevor (depending on your list, I think force users can brush off seevor while taking down torkhil) the following rounds. Also, approach at multiple angles. Your ships need mods when shooting and being shot at, so you dont want straight on combat where you have to kturn, then get dragged to ps0 with zero mods.
  • Cartels at R1 throw 4 dice, self explanatory but it matters. R1 of them is a bad place to be.
    • Unless you know you can kill, and cant be killed at range 1, dont make it easy on these cartels. 4 dice with a single focus is average of 3 hits, better than a focus+lock at range 2.

Vader Soontir+ 

  • If all they offer up is the not i6 stuff then your on the clock to destroy those targets fast enough to have enough pieces left to deal with the i6s 
    • This is important. If you can take out the bombers, or lambda, or whatever the "friend(s)" are fast, then DO IT! This puts you ahead on points, and the aces have to be the aggressors now and you can take the fight where you want it (rocks, open corner, etc.).  If the aces kill more of your stuff that is greater than the "friends" then they can hit and run all they want as long as they are above in points. Its all gonna matter what you bring to the table. Puny two dice ships? Maybe cant take out two bombers fast enough. A few proton torpedoes, or a vulture swarm? No problem.
  • Be aware that with burners ( and he should have burners ) Vader can fly through rocks, boost and action with his ability. 
    • Personally, I try to make Vader waste his burners early in the matches I play against him. I would rather him waste them early to not get shot, then have them coming around my flank and boosting into range 1. Or when its late game and I need a shot on vader and he has afterburners left, ugh. I flew a lot of Vader, and having an afterburners charge left in those close games, to boost away when time is called is clutch.
  • Threaten the flank without "committing" to it. So you can switch targets if the Flanker picks its escape route. 
    • This is how I approach most ace lists, and leads into the point above about wasting Vaders afterburners. Threatening the ace, but not committing is a practiced skill. Its all about the obstacles, your range and approach. If you can make that ace turn hard away, and next turn you are easily onto a new enemy ship, you just took that ace out of the fight for a turn or two and don't have to worry about him. It's like Lebron James being subbed out of a game, you have 5 minutes without Bron on the court!! Time to catch up!
  • Set up locks turns you know you have no chance to shoot them so the turns you do matter more, usually good to do this the turn you move to block
    • If I have beefy-ish ships, I will setup locks on aces almost any chance I get, even if Im not firing at them. Keep those locks out there, and the ace has to worry about those ALL GAME LONG. I remember one game I had Boba/Guri and went up against Anakin, Mace, Lumi. We exchanged range 3 shots, and next round Boba and Guri took locks on Anakin. He ran away, and then all game he was just double repoing trying to stay out of arcs. He could never just move and take a lock, or else he eats a full mod shot. It killed his offense the entire game.

Tavson+ 

  • Don't Shoot Tavson, its a darwin test
    • This is just pretty much it. Approach at multiple angles, Tavson has to choose one, others get behind him. Use strategy above for Vader, and threaten Kylo to make his offense weak/run away, while shooting the friend, or Tavson (if you have a clean OUT OF ARC shot) Typing it is easy, doing it is another thing, but thats why this game is great to play. As far as rock strategies, if you brought Gas Clouds, Good Luck. If you brought Rocks and debris, TAKE FIRST PLAYER, so that you can place two rocks in the middle (cause Tavson brought gas clouds for sure). This matchup is like 5x more difficult if your ships don't have boost. Bwings and such just get chewed up. 

Sinker Swarm 

  • Buckle up for 75 minutes 
    • 99% Guaranteed. This is actually key to victory. Dont be intimidated by it across from you. KNOW this game is going to time and start figuring out your win condition ASAP.
  • If they have Ric as filler, Ric will 5 straight into boxes and yell "Its a Trap!" dont take the bait unless you blocked him. He will regen and flank you after losing a couple shields.
    • This depends on your list. Ive played against ric sinker swarm with my Anakin, Plo, Ric list and I TOOK 1st player each time, cause Rics moves are easily predictable and can be blocked easy, and I did not want ric blocking my plo or ric and eating a sinker swarm volley. So, I have first player, and threaten his ric, who flies away and never engages. Again, depends on the list you bring. But if you completely ignore Ric, and give him comfortable range 1 shots behind you, you will not win this game. I got annihilated by Ric against my 5 S/F swarm. I went hard after sinker and  Ric just was in heaven with no real threat. Threaten him to boost, etc and lose his attacking mods.
  • Rock Setup is really key here. The Torrents dials are heavily restricted so you can control the direction of their arcs with obstacles.
    • Yes, another reason to take first player, so you can choose two of the three biggest rocks and place them center stage.
  • Half pts requires 3 dmg cards on a torrent. Keep that in mind! Splitting fire and collecting half pts can win you the scramble drill end game. 
    • Know your win condition. Dont chase a hurt torrent. Your opponent expects this, and uses it as bait for traps and blocks. If you have to spread damage against a sinker swarm, do it. This is mostly for ace lists that can dodge. Focusing down one torrent at a time is trouble for aces. You dont want to be predictable. Just bounce around and get points. I've played and beat two Ric Sinker Swarms with my Ani/Plo/Ric list without losing a ship. Just half points on a couple torrents and kill one. The game is going to time no matter what, so dont feel bad for hit and run tactics. They brought a list that f***ing deserves it

Sear Swarm 

  • Attacking from multiple angles helps considerably.
    • Cant stress this enough. If you are playing against swarms/formation lists you have to spread out the engagement. At hyperspace qualifiers, in my last match vs a Wat Vulture swarm I think it took 5 rounds before engagement and I brought Luke all the way around the map to enage at 12 o'clock, Wedge and Jake to approach at 3'clock, and Braylen by himself approaching at 5'oclock. Makes the fight easier to just 1 straight with your other ships and light the swarm up, while they attack one of your ships. The strategy of bring them into the rocks doesnt apply to swarms anymore with struts and whatnot. Get those angles. Kturning loses you mods. Gets those mods and put damage into those mofos. They are only scary when there is 7 or 8 of them.
    • I will also point out, that on engagement, you want to engage a swarm when they are on a turn maneuver. Try not to engage when they can do straights. Why? If a swarm can straight, their choices are 2-5 and those maneuvers cover a lot of ground and range is hard to gauge. On a turn maneuver, amount of space they can cover from them to you, is very minimal with a 1-3 turn. And, depending on their formation, and the pilot, they could switch from something like a 3-3 formation to a 2-2-2 formation, and if you get the range right on that turn, you only engage the front 2.

Ketsu Old T+ (*no 2.0 experience, but Ketsu and Old T were my main squad in 1.0)

  • Old T tends to function as this lists "End Game" get rid of him
    • He is probably the easiest to take down while you have multiple ships. AGAIN, approach multiple angles. Ketsu has to make a decision with that front arc only ability. Also, if Old T is range 1 of 1 ship, he should be range 2 of your others and dies. Ketsu is like a video game boss. She will do a scary pass, that you try and dodge, then has to turn, or kturn and be vulnerable and thats when you attack. Then the scary pass comes, and you should not be 3 straighting towards her! But Old T needs to go down fast if you have token-dependent ships (non force users). The less ships you have on the board, the more powerful he becomes.

Republic Regen Aces 

  • Generally speaking I find it more valuable not to block jedi. Potential shots are precious and rare. Take them if you can get them.
    • Blocking is better. Block them and put your guns in that spot. Jedi dont mind one shot at them, but multiple shots deplete force and shields and eventually hull. I run Anakin with r2a6 because I dont want him blocked. If Anakin does not get blocked, I dont lose him. Simple as that.
  • Dont chase
    • Unless you have some big guns or range 3 denying ordnance. You need to get into that hull for half points
  • Go all in at the thing(s) that dont have Regen to get "guaranteed" points without splitting fire.
    • Kind of the same thing with Vader Soontir lists. If you can kill the friend fast enough, it puts the aces on the clock to do damage and become the aggressor. The slower they do damage, the less likely they will have time to run and regen.
  • Block Ric because you can.
    • Just make sure he isnt the bait, and you get lit up from behind with two jedi. Block him if he is gonna be coming at you. If its more likely he is just gonna 5 straight and run, dont go for the block if Jedi coming from flank. Its hard to say "Always do this" or "Dont ever do this" cause it just depends on your list. But when Ric is 99% gonna be coming into the fight, then yes, block him. If its a 50/50 and he could well be bait for your list, think twice about it.

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つ ◕◕ ༽つ Summon Counter Play Strategy For Pre-Movement Aces ༼ つ ◕◕ ༽つ  

Pre-requisite don't mention any of the following: 

  • Turrets
  • Luke Gunner 
  • Building to Specific Bids 
  • Pre-Movement vs Pre-Movement
  • Sense or Informant 
  • Slave 1 
  • Rear Arcs or Multi-Arcs or Rotate Arcs
  • Rear Arcs + Boost 
  • 180 Arc Ships 
  • Snapshot 
  • Bombs 
  • Tractor Beam 
  • Bendy Barrel Rolls
  • 7-8 Ship Lists 
  • Any List Building Counters 

I have my own ideas, but im interested to hear other peoples suggestions. 

Edited by Boom Owl

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32 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

つ ◕◕ ༽つ Summon Counter Play Strategy For Pre-Movement Aces ༼ つ ◕◕ ༽つ  

Pre-requisite don't mention any of the following: 

  • Turrets
  • Luke Gunner 
  • Building to Specific Bids 
  • Pre-Movement vs Pre-Movement
  • Sense or Informant 
  • Slave 1 
  • Rear Arcs or Multi-Arcs or Rotate Arcs
  • Rear Arcs + Boost 
  • 180 Arc Ships 
  • Snapshot 
  • Bombs 
  • Tractor Beam 
  • Bendy Barrel Rolls
  • 7-8 Ship Lists 
  • Any List Building Counters 

I have my own ideas, but im interested to hear other peoples suggestions. 

Bait, block and focus fire.

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Ultimately, ships which can roll or boost before movement are inherently more flexible than those which need to complete a move first. Blocking is possible but will often require a larger base or a lot of ships. Ultimately, they're just an extreme version of normal highly manoeuvrable aces.

  • Generally, trying to form a firing 'arc' is good. If you close head-on en masse, it's a lot easier to break away from you and avoid your squad's fire. A ship caught in a 'net' that rolls one way to avoid a block or range 1 shot, tends to move into a shot or block from the other side of the 'net'.
  • Where possible, try and engage at range 2. Range 1 is far too easy to 'sidestep', whilst at range 3 you'll struggle to do anything (since most aces are either agility 3 or have multiple defensive modifiers). Obviously this isn't the case if your squad is actively equipped to fight at extreme ranges - Focus ordnance, or Passive Sensors & Lock ordnance aren't on @Boom Owl's list of banned things to mention, but they're far from standard issue. If you have them, fighting at range 3 is obviously an effective choice.
  • Accept they can pretty much always choose to break off. Something like a supernatural reflexes Kylo Ren can always choose to bank/roll/speed 5 straight which is almost guaranteed to find a way to 'get away'. But if they're using their manoeuvrability to create a situation where no shots are exchanged on either side, that's probably an acceptable state unless your opponent is playing "kill one tie fighter and run away for an hour".
  • @Hiemfire is right that obstacles are a good starting point; because in a dense obstacle field your opponent's choices are limited

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On 9/9/2019 at 2:14 PM, wurms said:

Tavson+ 

  • Don't Shoot Tavson, its a darwin test
    • This is just pretty much it. Approach at multiple angles, Tavson has to choose one, others get behind him. Use strategy above for Vader, and threaten Kylo to make his offense weak/run away, while shooting the friend, or Tavson (if you have a clean OUT OF ARC shot) Typing it is easy, doing it is another thing, but thats why this game is great to play. As far as rock strategies, if you brought Gas Clouds, Good Luck. If you brought Rocks and debris, TAKE FIRST PLAYER, so that you can place two rocks in the middle (cause Tavson brought gas clouds for sure). This matchup is like 5x more difficult if your ships don't have boost. Bwings and such just get chewed up. 


Had a tough loss to Tavson (with Quickdraw + Backdraft) yesterday, flying Finn + Snap + Jess + Bastian.  It is indeed tough when they bring gas clouds :)  Any tips on how to set up a good multi-angle approach and not get caught in a bad partial engagement, when one of your ships doesn't have Boost?

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2 hours ago, bitsai said:


Had a tough loss to Tavson (with Quickdraw + Backdraft) yesterday, flying Finn + Snap + Jess + Bastian.  It is indeed tough when they bring gas clouds :)  Any tips on how to set up a good multi-angle approach and not get caught in a bad partial engagement, when one of your ships doesn't have Boost?

Using Multi angle approaches without getting caught out is one of the main “xwing skills”. At first most players who have evolved beyond honorable full formation or wall jousts try to be super patient and draw opponents into their kill box. Essentially waiting until things develop favorably. Its a reliable tactic at times. The trouble is your opponent can identify that and get aggressive to one side for a partial trade against something, in which case the 101 "honor joust" would have probably just been better. Leads to a guessing game of whether or not you might need to move quickly to spots that prevent that but still leave an escape route should they call a side of your kill box out. Aggression to set up the box can backfire just as badly as patience. Its pretty much all the best parts of why xwing is interesting and fun. 

It takes time to get right and really requires significant reps with all of your lists pieces to know how and when they will arrive on target. Whats unique about tavson is he often is fast and furious out the gate. 2x U will fortress but when its just tavson hes gonna nfl blitz toward the spot he wants to be for the lane full of gas clouds he built for himself. That means if your not careful Tavson will just rocket out to a solid joust or flank that he wants. 

Deployment super matters here and so does identifying where you do not want to engage (hint its lanes and where the clouds are). If you have rocks or debri make tavson go through all that to flank you.  This logic applies to tons of things besides tavson to, box formation jousters in particular with a flanking element for example. End of the day it also comes down to playing wider than your opponent but not so wide that you make partial engages inevitable. 

No easy answer but its all manageable and takes practice of both openers to get to a spot you can control or multi round dances without any shots before an engage to.

Edit: So much rambling barely useful explanation i just typed here. hope this is at least interesting.

Edited by Boom Owl

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5 hours ago, Boom Owl said:

At first most players who have evolved beyond honorable full formation or wall jousts try to be super patient and draw opponents into their kill box. Essentially waiting until things develop favorably. Its a reliable tactic at times. The trouble is your opponent can identify that and get aggressive to one side for a partial trade against something, in which case the 101 "honor joust" would have probably just been better. Leads to a guessing game of whether or not you might need to move quickly to spots that prevent that but still leave an escape route should they call a side of your kill box out. Aggression to set up the box can backfire just as badly as patience. Its pretty much all the best parts of why xwing is interesting and fun.

This is exactly where I am, just starting to move beyond jousting and learning first-hand the complexities involved in the multi-angle guessing game :)

Quote

It takes time to get right and really requires significant reps with all of your lists pieces to know how and when they will arrive on target. Whats unique about tavson is he often is fast and furious out the gate. 2x U will fortress but when its just tavson hes gonna nfl blitz toward the spot he wants to be for the lane full of gas clouds he built for himself. That means if your not careful Tavson will just rocket out to a solid joust or flank that he wants.

Precisely this. IMHO Tavson's speed (plus the ability to do a full stop) makes the guessing game more challenging than, say, a CIS swarm.

Quote

Deployment super matters here and so does identifying where you do not want to engage (hint its lanes and where the clouds are). If you have rocks or debris make tavson go through all that to flank you.  This logic applies to tons of things besides tavson to, box formation jousters in particular with a flanking element for example.

Great points!  The Tavson player I played against surprised me by taking first-player so he could corner two of my 3 asteroids and limit their impact.  But even so, I think I could have done more to force him to commit to one side or the other of the one rock I put in the center.  Especially since I had the dice advantage if it came to final salvo, I should leverage that and make him commit first.

Quote

End of the day it also comes down to playing wider than your opponent but not so wide that you make partial engages inevitable.

Another great point, especially with a ship like Finn.

Thank you for all the great tips and suggestions!

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On 9/7/2019 at 1:18 PM, Boom Owl said:

Not looking for suggestions to "use xyz list to counter xyz list" type discussion here. 

Well, duh.  If someone's having trouble with an X-Wing, Y-Wing, and Z-95; going with a mirror list is unlikely to help much.

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On 9/10/2019 at 4:03 PM, Boom Owl said:

つ ◕◕ ༽つ Summon Counter Play Strategy For Pre-Movement Aces ༼ つ ◕◕ ༽つ  

Pre-requisite don't mention any of the following: 

  • Turrets
  • Luke Gunner 
  • Building to Specific Bids 
  • Pre-Movement vs Pre-Movement
  • Sense or Informant 
  • Slave 1 
  • Rear Arcs or Multi-Arcs or Rotate Arcs
  • Rear Arcs + Boost 
  • 180 Arc Ships 
  • Snapshot 
  • Bombs 
  • Tractor Beam 
  • Bendy Barrel Rolls
  • 7-8 Ship Lists 
  • Any List Building Counters 

I have my own ideas, but im interested to hear other peoples suggestions. 

Basically the further you are from then the better.  True, they get an extra defense at range 3, but you do too, which can be enough to avoid bad trades.  

The real key is not planning for all the places they can be, but all the places they can make effective attacks from.  For example, you might choose not to cover a range 3 obstructed shot against a T70 in order to put two arcs on a position where they could attack from range 2 not obstructed.

If you identify all the places where they're dangerous, you can often commit less than 100% of your squad to countering them, which potentially lets you engage the rest of their squad. 

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17 minutes ago, Cloaker said:

You guys are falling behind here, the sky is falling supposedly regarding the Nantex over on THAT other post... 

can we welcome our new Sun Fac counter 4 Dead Man's Freighter Captains yet into the meta? huh? can we? 

FOUR. DEADMAN. FREIGHTERS!

...with apologies to @FTS Gecko

Edited by CoffeeMinion

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On 9/16/2019 at 11:18 PM, Cloaker said:

Nantex

Way to early for me to detail out in-game strategy for this one. Maybe some other people have more games against it.
All of the below is questionable at best...I have only a couple games in with and against the Nantex. Gotta start somewhere I guess. 

  • If they overextend the nantex on the flank for some reason and let you attack from R2-3 consider taking advantage of it.
  • Don't 100% give up a flank to 6-7 vultures to do it though. 
  • Spreading damage across multiple vultures and destroying 2 in multiple turns can swing games fast. 
  • It is "possible" to move behind the Nantex, but it requires you to go quickly a turn before and risk being R1-2. Much easier done against the Nantex not named Sun-Fac. 
  • If your moving after Sun-Fac you can boost into ranges that setup the leap frog next turn. 
  • Again risky they can go fast to, and he can hard 1 turn roll back and still have arc depending on board state. This gets into List Building territory, very few things are i6. 
  • Alot of the time they will deploy with the Nantex on a flank ( arc pointed off the board ), board edge to protect the direction their arc is facing. 
  • Vultures deploy on the other side of the Nantex to build the box. 
  • They will try to put a board edge in whatever area the Nantex's arc cant be....or I guess they can protect that area with some vultures.
  • If they dont protect that blind spot options open up a bit. Also the blind spot changes turn to turn or can change 1 turn before the engange and be the dangerzone real fast. 
  • Can take advantage by trying to engage the vultures or the nantex with one element mostly out of the fight to start. 
  • Move quickly for a partial engage on the Vultures, this can cause a snowball effect if you destroy some fast enough. No Ta-175 typically so they are vulnerable. 
  • Its possible to end up in 2nd engages with vultures all nearby and your own ships in the way. This can prevent Tractor Re-position options, so all you do is lose 1 agility. 
  • Trying not to engage near rocks can lead to engages near other rocks and gives the CIS player huge amounts of info on where you are going to pull you towards other rocks later in the game. 
  • Don't have to take angles or lanes that 100% keep rocks out of the picture, its possible to move towards them fast enough that the initial engage takes place beyond them. 
  • As with most CIS lists, dont "wait around". You need to make progress on the Vultures so the game doesnt end at time to easily for the CIS player. 
  • Big picture if Sun Fac is on the table you typically need to have enough pieces in the end game so its not 1v1 moving last.
  • Target Win Conditions will definitely vary a ton from list to list here. 

 

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Random shower thought: can Plo Koon's ability (which can pull an orange token from a friendly ship at range 0-2 to himself) help the Jedi combat the new tractor meta?

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6 minutes ago, bitsai said:

Random shower thought: can Plo Koon's ability (which can pull an orange token from a friendly ship at range 0-2 to himself) help the Jedi combat the new tractor meta?

It does but thats the definition of the opposite of in-game strategy. 

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25 minutes ago, bitsai said:

Random shower thought: can Plo Koon's ability (which can pull an orange token from a friendly ship at range 0-2 to himself) help the Jedi combat the new tractor meta?

Disarm, Tractor and Jam are all orange tokens, so viable targets.

Obviously Jam is a bit less relevant since if it's not burned something off by the end of the activation phase it's less likely to come up in the engagement phase (synchronised console? I guess?)

It won't trigger until after Ensnare does, so it will let you move a token applied by ensnare. It won't do so in time to prevent your opponent repositioning you , but it will prevent you defending at -1 die and prevent Chertek or Sun Fac using their pilot abilities against you. It may also move the tractor token out of a wingman's arc to prevent Gravetic Deflection.

Plus, Plo is Initiative 5 for a reasonable price - which means he has a better chance of using fine-tuned controls to avoid getting Ensnared by Chertek (even if not Sun Fac).

Plus, obviously, shield regen is a nice trick for Jedi, and Plo can disarm himself instead of the pilot doing the Regen-ing.

On ‎9‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 4:18 AM, Cloaker said:

can we welcome our new Sun Fac counter 4 Dead Man's Freighter Captains yet into the meta? huh? can we? 


Or Deadman Switch Z-95s. Or even Deadman Switch Quadjumpers if you really want to be ridiculous...

 

 

 

Edited by Magnus Grendel

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50 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

It does but thats the definition of the opposite of in-game strategy. 

Oops, that's true.  Sorry, that's what I get for posting too early in the morning :)

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6 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Or Deadman Switch Z-95s. Or even Deadman Switch Quadjumpers if you really want to be ridiculous...

FA/SDV Trandoshan Slavers now clocking in at 66 points of pure NPE...

Pack with a Zuckuss Lancer and blast away. Actually quite fun to play and quite brutal to play against. Force a head-on collision and a small ship is effectively deleted.

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45 minutes ago, ClassicalMoser said:

FA/SDV Trandoshan Slavers now clocking in at 66 points of pure NPE...

Pack with a Zuckuss Lancer and blast away. Actually quite fun to play and quite brutal to play against. Force a head-on collision and a small ship is effectively deleted.

FA/SDV?

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