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Teravoc

Activation Wars

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25 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

 

I mean, if you want to feed, 3 min Rebel Trooper units, a Generic officer and 630pts of bid is legal as far as I can tell.  Plus side, all of your games will be resolved on time...

Imagine pulling out a win with that! :D

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On 9/6/2019 at 10:21 AM, TauntaunScout said:

 I still like giving Blue to whoever has the least # of activation. It would reflect the logistical issues of a more sprawling force that happens before the battle. A few points to bid is nothing, but another activation matters.

 

I really like this it would be a better way to decide blue player

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16 hours ago, Teravoc said:

615 Points with a 4 activation list is the best i could do.  So I am not sure if 4 is realistically the minimum.  That was fun to try though. 5 activation list easy to do for sure. 

Wasn't implying could make a 800 pt list with 4 units, just pointing out those 4 are the minimum required to have regardless of build. 

When it comes to a 800 pt list, yes 5 is the least at the moment.   I got to 620 with the Empire, using Emperor Palpatine and 3 Shoretroopers.

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I will concede that my practical experience in this game is limited but it seems to me that activation control is just as valuable if not more valuable than raw number of activations. I understand command cards effect this but I'd rather control which units activate when than simply have more activations. 

Edited by charlesanakin

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5 minutes ago, charlesanakin said:

I will concede that my practical experience in this game is limited but it seems to me that activation control is just as valuable if not more valuable than raw number of activations. I understand command cards effect this but I'd rather control which units activate when than simply have more activations. 

You are correct, thats why "activation spam" lists tend to field 6 corps and 3 sniper teams. If you issue your orders to whatever else is in your list (commander plus AT-RT's or whatever) you basucally have perfect activation control and lots of activations.

Snipers dont really care when they activate in the round by and large and if you draw a corps token you can activate any of them giving you a fair amount of control. 

Raising the price on strike teams is a step in the right direction.  Also the newer corps and command cards reward you for ordering your corps units instead of just spamming your order bag with them.

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57 minutes ago, charlesanakin said:

I will concede that my practical experience in this game is limited but it seems to me that activation control is just as valuable if not more valuable than raw number of activations. I understand command cards effect this but I'd rather control which units activate when than simply have more activations. 

 

There's a lot of nuance to activations in general.  For example:

A unit of Tauntauns starts the turn in melee with a unit of stormtroopers they had charged and reduced to 3 models in a previous turn.  The Stormtroopers aim punches and damage one Tauntaun.  The Tauntauns then activate, move out of melee with that unit of Stromtroopers and into melee with another unit of Stormtroopers, kills them down to two models, then uses their second move to engage a third unit of stormtroopers.

-

In this situation, the first Stomrtrooper unit's activation got very little value.  The unit of Stormtroopers currently engaged are going to get no value (punching a unit with two dodge tokens is pretty useless, and disengaging basically removes their entire activation just to facilitate another one) and the unit reduced to 2 models also basically has a useless activation.  In this case a 90pt unit of Tauntauns is just manhandling 200pts of Stromtroopers.  The Stormtroopers can't leverage their activation advantage for any value.  Even if the Stormtroopers do eventually defeat the Tauntauns, it will take almost the entire game. 

-

Activation control and the relative value of an activation are also factors that are frequently overlooked.  For example, playtesting the double T-47/Triple Tauntaun list, it was observed by both me and my opponents that, even though my opponents were beating me on raw numbers of activations, the fact that I had 5 high value activations vs them having 8 or activations of only middling value with 1-2 high value activations gave me a distinct edge.  The loss of 1 high value activation didn't cripple me, but it did cripple them (either that activation being removed through death, being engaged or even just having bad dice for 1-2 turns).  Meanwhile the low to mid activations were struggling to even come close to high value ones as the high value activations would remove or cripple units and the low value ones would only do minor damage.

-

Activations are a very nuanced thing, but internet conversations rarely allow for nuance so it usually just boils down to "MOAR ACTIVATIONS!"

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I can see tauntans causing a bit of a mess by moving into melee with another unit after the unit their engaged with already activated  but how are they doing all that at once?  They can only make a speed 1 move, it consumes their entire activation, and can’t attack.  Right?  

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27 minutes ago, Dosiere said:

I can see tauntans causing a bit of a mess by moving into melee with another unit after the unit their engaged with already activated  but how are they doing all that at once?  They can only make a speed 1 move, it consumes their entire activation, and can’t attack.  Right?  

Nope. Creature troopers

While engaged, creature troopers do not have to withdraw to perform moves, and while moving can displace non-creature, non-emplacement trooper units with which they are engaged.

 

It also has some downsides with relation to cover, but these guys are pretty mean.

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2 hours ago, MasterShake2 said:

 

There's a lot of nuance to activations in general.  For example:

A unit of Tauntauns starts the turn in melee with a unit of stormtroopers they had charged and reduced to 3 models in a previous turn.  The Stormtroopers aim punches and damage one Tauntaun.  The Tauntauns then activate, move out of melee with that unit of Stromtroopers and into melee with another unit of Stormtroopers, kills them down to two models, then uses their second move to engage a third unit of stormtroopers.

-

In this situation, the first Stomrtrooper unit's activation got very little value.  The unit of Stormtroopers currently engaged are going to get no value (punching a unit with two dodge tokens is pretty useless, and disengaging basically removes their entire activation just to facilitate another one) and the unit reduced to 2 models also basically has a useless activation.  In this case a 90pt unit of Tauntauns is just manhandling 200pts of Stromtroopers.  The Stormtroopers can't leverage their activation advantage for any value.  Even if the Stormtroopers do eventually defeat the Tauntauns, it will take almost the entire game. 

-

Activation control and the relative value of an activation are also factors that are frequently overlooked.  For example, playtesting the double T-47/Triple Tauntaun list, it was observed by both me and my opponents that, even though my opponents were beating me on raw numbers of activations, the fact that I had 5 high value activations vs them having 8 or activations of only middling value with 1-2 high value activations gave me a distinct edge.  The loss of 1 high value activation didn't cripple me, but it did cripple them (either that activation being removed through death, being engaged or even just having bad dice for 1-2 turns).  Meanwhile the low to mid activations were struggling to even come close to high value ones as the high value activations would remove or cripple units and the low value ones would only do minor damage.

-

Activations are a very nuanced thing, but internet conversations rarely allow for nuance so it usually just boils down to "MOAR ACTIVATIONS!"

And this is what the range and point changes were really after. Once you get more varied units in the meta (without that full table range for cheap garbage) Turn 0, getting the most out of activations and the activation you want when you want them is going to get more important. Tauntauns were going to do that anyway (imo) as the new efficiency hotness and counters for such.

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