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Vipersfang00000

Force suppression

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I known that "Death sticks" can have an effect on force users. But I think you need something more strong on force users. :)

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 (...) and may reduce the character’s connection to the Force in certain ways at the CM’s discretion.

 

Edited by Khamai

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The Ysalamiri might be useful :)

they produce an aura which negates the Force. The effect is multiplicative. See also az planet Myrkr. I have no idea whether or not it has official stata, but Vornskrs have so probably this too.

Edit: it's in the FnD corebook, adversary section

Edited by Rimsen

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31 minutes ago, Vipersfang00000 said:

My players have made enemies with some imperial officers... I have two jedi's in the party and he's going to lay a trap for them. He wants to level the playing field. 

Some Imperial Officer shouldn't have any means of getting his hands on Force suppression stuff (that all rightfully got ejected from canon anyway because bubbles in which the energy that binds the universe together doesn't exist, are stupid) but what he can do is send a note to his superiors along the lines of "hey, there's these Jedi running around in my sector, where's my Inquisitorial support?"

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During the time frame of the Rebellion, there pretty much aren't ways for some rando Imperial schlubs to be able to completely suppress a Force user's ability to call upon the Force.  Especially given the hardline Imperial doctrine of the Force being a lot of simple tricks and religious nonsense.

The senior brass might be a little more aware of the existence of the Force, but they're not likely to have "insta-Force nullification" methods on hand either.  Instead, if a Force user starts making noise, more so if that Force user identifies/proclaims themselves as a Jedi, then they're going to dial up the Inquisitors, whose primary purpose is to hunt down and neutralize Force users who aren't in the Empire's loyal service.

Even if you do include things like the Ysalamari, they weren't commonly known about until several years after the Battle of Endor, and even then by a very small group (until lazy writers decided they needed an easy cop-out to keep Legends!Luke's god-like powers from derailing whatever contrived plot they'd thrown together).

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1 hour ago, Vipersfang00000 said:

My players have made enemies with some imperial officers... I have two jedi's in the party and he's going to lay a trap for them. He wants to level the playing field. 

I would take inspiration from the Clones Wars show, in this case specifically Season 2, Brain Invaders.  The clones set up a stun trap for Bariss, and make the comment that if anybody knows how to neutralize a Jedi, it's the clones.  There are also numerous episodes (not to mention E3 on Grevious' ship) where they get captured by "ray shields".  I'm not sure if ray shields are in the rules, but since in the media the heroes act like trapped hamsters when they're in one, I can only conclude that ray shields are effectively impervious to anything a Jedi might try to do to get out of them.

I agree with the others that it's quite a bit of overkill to have "some officer" know how to reduce their Force ability.  Even Tarkin doesn't know how to do that.

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7 hours ago, whafrog said:

I agree with the others that it's quite a bit of overkill to have "some officer" know how to reduce their Force ability.  Even Tarkin doesn't know how to do that.

Good point.

Probably a lot of the knowledge and techniques that would be used to suppress the actions of a Force user (as opposed to suppressing the Force itself) are likely forgotten methods by the time the Galactic Civil War kicks into full swing, as the Jedi are all but extinct in the galaxy (Ahsoka, Kenobi, and Yoda were thought dead, Ezra was missing in parts unknown, Kanan was dead), so most of the techniques that the clone troopers and Separatists knew of were probably long forgotten by those in service to the Empire, or the technology needed was simply written off as impractical now that the primary targets (Jedi) had been wiped out.

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12 hours ago, Vipersfang00000 said:

My players have made enemies with some imperial officers... I have two jedi's in the party and he's going to lay a trap for them. He wants to level the playing field. 

There are more practical means to level the field. Difficult to go against Force-users unless you use Force-users.  

Concussion Grenades? Knockout Grenades? Tenloss Spray Foam Grenade?  Glop Grenade? 

(http://swrpg.viluppo.net/equipment/weapons/category/5/

Just a bunch of sticky stuff ensnaring them.  Even Nets and Bolas can do a job on Jedi.  Nets can be shot by guns at good range.  (Ensnare: Effect: The target is immobilized for a number of rounds equal to the weapon's Ensnare rating.) The goal is not to be unfair and overload them, but I found the unconventional weapons brought some flavor to the game and the PC's didn't necessarily know how to get untangled. 

Weapons with Ensnare: Bola, Bola Carbine, Electronet, Grapple arms, Lightwhip, Longeing Whip, Loronar Cryoban Rifle, Merr-Sonn Munitions G-20 Glop Grenade, Mini-Torpedo, Net, Multi-Goo Gun, Net, Net Arrow, Palandrix AO14 "Aranea" Net Gun, Palandrix AO14 "Aranea" Net Gun, Retractable Blade Incisors, Snare Launcher, Stokhli Spray Stick, Tangle Gun 7, Tenloss Spray Foam Grenade

 

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5 hours ago, WolfRider said:

How long will the force user stay entangled once he / she draws his /her laser sabre ?

Probably not long, but then if you've got fire support using non-blaster weapons, a single round is probably all you'll need, as the Force user has to spend their action cutting themselves free (which may require a skill check at the GM's discretion much as Ensnare typically requires a check to slip free), during which time you unload at them.

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5 hours ago, WolfRider said:

How long will the force user stay entangled once he / she draws his /her laser sabre ?

As long as the Ensnare quality says they stay Ensnared.  You mean cut your way out of bolas wrapped around you?  Then let's have a roll for it, Upgraded of course, to see if you cut your own leg off (i.e. hit yourself).  With string, rope, or nets, that can work with some sensitive cutting.  Spray foam, goo, spray stick?  Maybe not so much.  Of course, the GM can simply hand wave it through as instant-release, but that's the lazy way out, IMO.   

Ensnare: HARD Athletics check to free self on their turn.  I think it'd be against the spirit of the rules not have it at least take an action. (Meanwhile, the other opponents tee off.)

*Spend a Triumph (Under Net description) to "ensure the victim is so entangled that ....his only action each turn is a Formidable Athletics check to free himself." So, one Triumph and the lightsaber can't get to it. 

Concussive: cannot perform Actions, only maneuvers.  Can't cut your way out of that. 

Edited by DurosSpacer

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On 9/6/2019 at 10:58 AM, micheldebruyn said:

Some Imperial Officer shouldn't have any means of getting his hands on Force suppression stuff (that all rightfully got ejected from canon anyway because bubbles in which the energy that binds the universe together doesn't exist, are stupid) but what he can do is send a note to his superiors along the lines of "hey, there's these Jedi running around in my sector, where's my Inquisitorial support?"

 

What in the heck does something being in canon or not have any bearing on whether a person can use it in their game?

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3 hours ago, Lord Zack said:

 

What in the heck does something being in canon or not have any bearing on whether a person can use it in their game?

I personally don't care, but apparently there are players who really do care a lot about this sort of thing.

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7 hours ago, Lord Zack said:

What in the heck does something being in canon or not have any bearing on whether a person can use it in their game?

Some GMs and players prefer to stick to a particular version of "canon," be it the Disney version of the Expanded Universe/Legends version, or just sticking directly to whats in the core film trilogies and everything else (TV series included) be damned, or some Frankensteined combination of the various sources.

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On 9/7/2019 at 7:17 PM, DurosSpacer said:

*Spend a Triumph (Under Net description) to "ensure the victim is so entangled that ....his only action each turn is a Formidable Athletics check to free himself." So, one Triumph and the lightsaber can't get to it. 

Concussive: cannot perform Actions, only maneuvers.  Can't cut your way out of that. 

Yes a triumph means the character is entangled so much he / she can't access his / her light saber. I was speaking about when there isn't any triumph, the Force User'll be free at the end of his / her next turn.

I've read the meaning of concussive because I wasn't sure. It's a KO like when a boxer is stil standing and moving but unable to defend against blows. I can see the Force User drawing his / her light saber but doing nothing with it except waving it poorly. With a despair he / she could even hurt him / herself if the GM is in a sadistic mood.:D

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On 9/6/2019 at 6:14 AM, Vipersfang00000 said:

Is their a item or drug in any of the books that suppress or prohibit the force users? 

Although there are no canon drugs that directly affect the Force being super 'high' probably would make it hard if not impossible to tap into it. You could use a drug that affects Willpower dropping it to 0 or it could be represented as a number of Setback dice depending on it's dosage/strength. Either way you would have the PC roll a Discipline check modified by the drug before attempting to use their Force abilities while under the influence, other Willpower Skills would be affected as well because it's not an anti-Force drug but and anti-Willpower one.

Here is an example of how I would do it:

Anti-Willpower drug Gas/Injection - Hard Resilience check (Gas +2 Setback, Injection +4 Setback) duration 24 hours.
Characters exposed to the drug make a Hard Resilience plus the number of Setback dice based on delivery check to resist. On Failure the target becomes unable to concentrate and is susceptible to all kinds of influence. All attempts at using any Willpower based Skills have their Difficulty upgraded once and at +3 Setback dice for the duration. Character's attempting to use a Force ability roll a Hard Difficulty upgraded once and at +3 Setback Discipline check first. PCs may attempt to overcome the drug's effects once per Encounter with a Hard Difficulty upgraded once and at +3 Setback Resilience check, if they roll a Despair no further attempts can be made that session.

Edited by FuriousGreg

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Why does it have to be an item or drug? Why can't it just not work on whatever it is the Jedi are targeting? Jabba didn't need to take any special pills or have some emitter to be unaffected by Luke's Jedi Mind Trick. 

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2 hours ago, Pollux85 said:

Why does it have to be an item or drug? Why can't it just not work on whatever it is the Jedi are targeting? Jabba didn't need to take any special pills or have some emitter to be unaffected by Luke's Jedi Mind Trick. 

I think it's because the OP asked about suppressing the user not the target.

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21 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

Some GMs and players prefer to stick to a particular version of "canon," be it the Disney version of the Expanded Universe/Legends version, or just sticking directly to whats in the core film trilogies and everything else (TV series included) be damned, or some Frankensteined combination of the various sources.

Yeah, but the OP didn't specify and even then the way it was put was kind of uncalled for.  We have as you say fans of both, so maybe lets not insult what the other people like.

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On 9/9/2019 at 9:40 AM, WolfRider said:

Yes a triumph means the character is entangled so much he / she can't access his / her light saber. I was speaking about when there isn't any triumph, the Force User'll be free at the end of his / her next turn.

I've read the meaning of concussive because I wasn't sure. It's a KO like when a boxer is stil standing and moving but unable to defend against blows. I can see the Force User drawing his / her light saber but doing nothing with it except waving it poorly. With a despair he / she could even hurt him / herself if the GM is in a sadistic mood.:D

Except that defending oneself, be it through Parry, Reflect, or Dodge, doesn't cost an action. They're incidentals or (in the case of Dodge) straight up passive talents.

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While not exactly man portable, there are containment fields in No Disintegrations as vehicle attachments. The rules do not specifically mention that they prohibit the use of the Force, just:

Quote

"An individual held within a containment field is completely unable to move, although he can still hear, see, and speak. Escape under these circumstances is incredibly difficult, and thus can only be attempted at the GM’s discretion."

But, according to Wookieepedia:

Quote

"the field served to disrupt the captive's connection to the Force, preventing their escape."

I'd say that force use, just like any attempt at escape, would be at the GM's discretion.

Canonically, they're common enough for a pirate like Hondo Ohnaka to have access to them. Rules wise, they're rarity 9, so quite hard to get hold of, but not excessively expensive.

Edited by penpenpen

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On 9/6/2019 at 8:21 AM, Vipersfang00000 said:

My players have made enemies with some imperial officers... I have two jedi's in the party and he's going to lay a trap for them. He wants to level the playing field. 

Strategy and Tactics my man. If the Officers are any good at all, they'll analyze the situation, compile intelligence, develop a plan, practice practice practice, and then execute. Not only will this avoid the "space kryptonite" trope, but it can also move to illustrate these guys aren't just political appointee. Some of those Coreward gold-brickers might just call in the Inquisition and call it a day. Out here, we still know how to actually fight and win.

Forget the Space Wizard aspect and look solely at what a Jedi can do... In most cases, a totally kitted out bounty hunter can do all the same things. They might need jet boots and a holographic suit to do it, but the bottom line is most Jedi powers are relatable and duplicatable through conventional means. Framed like that, how would you handle it?

Just my angle:

1) Overwhelming force: Jedi are tough cookies. How many stormtroopers do I need? Double that.

2) Jedi can sense danger: Assume they are like someone with good on site overwatch, no different than having a probe droid attached to the unit. Counter with Mobility. Set up a good, well-drilled Quick Reaction Force. They sit a dozen clicks out, wait for the shooting to start, then the speeders swing in, hot drop them in and they execute their assigned missions.

3) Jedi are terrible planners: Jedi tend to improvise a lot. Granted they are good at it, but still having a scrap of a plan will still get you farther than making it up as you go 100%. Set your goals. Identify challenges. Know your resources. Accept that you may have to abort, and know when to make that call. Know the lay of the land. Turn all that into a 1-2-3 plan of how you want this to all go down.

4) The Unexpected: The Empire has ample resources, but also tends to be predictable. So hire outside help. Identify specific Jedi weaknesses and try and find some outside talent that counters that. Concerned about Jedi blaster deflection? Hire some Weequay marksmen who know their way around a slugthrower. Worried about other force use? Some Gank's with concussive rifles handling suppression can do wonders with that. Best of all you can plan for these guys to be the first wave and then either die or bug out.

 

So... were it me...

Phase One: The set up. Identify something the Jedi want or need (Lure). Have your Information Ops guys start dropping clues, and the Intel guys watching to see any bites. Suggest we dig through available records and dummy up a long lost Jedi artifact of some kind and coop a local merchant to hold it in his inventory (contingency: forged artifact contains a delayed-activation tracking device). Alternate option would be to capture a known associate of the Jedi and have them contact the Jedi and ask for help.

Phase Two: Site location. Select a location (Objective Saber), preferable in a populated area, to set the trap. Collateral damage is regrettable, but InfoOps can blame it on the Jedi after the fact, and it will limit the Jedi's ability to respond for fear of injuring civilinas while providing cover to our operatives. Hire Bounty hunter team (Callsign: Variable) to sit tight locally, insert observation team (Callsign: Constant) to keep watch. Variable will be composed of specialty hunters with special weapons, tactics, and if possible experience vs. Jedi. Variable will be stored less than a KM from Objective Saber. Constant is an unarmed observation team that will be positioned within sight of Saber. Identify paths in and out, seal off obvious methods (sewers, utility crawlways) ID LZs for aircraft, spacecraft, and good locations for things like casualty accumulation points and defensible positions the Jedi might attempt to use. 

Phase Three: Mission prep: QRF (Callsign: Avalanche) composed of no less than 4 stormtrooper air-mobile platoons (callsigns Alpha, Beta, Ceti, and Delta) mounted on Dropships (callsign Bus) and with TIE support (callsign Steel) and augmented with specialist teams, will be positioned at an available facility (starport, school, sports arena, ect.) roughly 5 minutes travel time from Objective Saber.  After Site is selected but before operations begin in earnest, set up a replica of Objective Saber at a training facility. Conduct regular drills on the replica, ensuring every trooper knows the mission inside and out. If possible get at least one extra platoon (Eta) to also drill as a source of replacement for troopers injured in training, and as a augmentation force for mission day.

Phase Four: Groundwork: Put all assets in place, if required devise and disseminate cover story for Avalanche's presence.

Phase Five: Ready: Ramp up intel and information ops about Lure. Review mission plan with troops daily and keep up on all physical training, vehicle maintenance, and readiness. Place oversight with Variable to ensure they maintain readiness (note: intentionally overpay during wait times to encourage cooperation). 

Phase 6: Execution.

- Constant confirms ID of Jedi as they enter Obj Saber. 

- Variable activated. Variable launches ambush on Saber focusing on weakening and suppressing Jedi with specialty weapons.

- Avalanche boards aircraft and launch, Constant deploys Probe Droid (Viper) to orbit locationand provide real-time ISR. Steel moves to secure airspace.

- Avalanche arrives at Saber. Alpha conduct air assault on Saber, Beta and Ceti establish perimeter to prevent escape or reinforcement.

- Variable should keep fighting, but may withdraw if they've taken too many casualties. Alpha presses assault with support from Bus/Steel

- Land Delta to reinforce Alpha. If Alpha doing well, Order Delta to secure/deny defensible positions before moving to assist Alpha.

- Alpha and Delta capture/kill the Jedi. 

- Beta and Ceti break position and move in "closing the noose" on any stragglers.

- Bus extracts Prisoners and Wounded, Ground units do final sweep.

- Bus extracts Missions Teams

- Cake.

 

Now... you can take that and turn it into Encounters.

- Players get word that Mace Windu's underpants are in a shop in town.

- Get rousted at imperial checkpoint by unit conducting "a sector security sweep" but get through. Imperials otherwise seem too busy to bother locals.

- Awkward encounter at shop. Underpants look genuine.

- Ambush by Bounty hunters.

- Stormtroopers arrive, players attempt to escape, find obvious escapes closed off.

- More Troopers, players attempt to bunker down in a defensible location.

- More Troopers, perfectly equipped to break defensible location.

- Players steal a civilian speeder and make a break for it, encounter more troopers securing site, must punch through blockade.

- Running Chase with TIE fighters necessitating they flee to the canyons to the south.

- Safe at last, until the underpants start emitting a homing signal.

 

 

Now... I laid that out for the player to escape, but you can of course be less nice about it...

Edited by Ghostofman

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