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TheSpitfired

New Rules Update! Let's talk about it

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Activity for this game in this forum is certainly dying out if I'm the one starting topics haha. As you may or may not know Keyforge released a rules update today, and I'd say the changes are intriguing. Let's recap.

Destroyed Sequence - The sequence for destroying cards is finally spelled out. Cards are tagged for destruction, destroyed effects trigger, then cards are destroyed. This has some lasting repercussions that are thoughtful and hilarious. First:

Archimedes is fixed! If there is a board wipe while Archimedes is in play and surrounded by creatures the new destroyed sequence dictates that his ability can only affect his immediate neighbors. It no longer transfers to every neighbor he could or could not potentially have. In my opinion this is how it should have been from the beginning. OP Europe owes us an apology for making a video saying "no it works this way but you've all been playing wrong and that's why it is confusing." I am glad they came around on this, even if it hurts my Archimedes + Might Makes Right shenanigans a little.

Duma the Martyr nerfed a little? With this new destroyed sequence you tag creatures to be destroyed, then trigger destroyed effects. Only a replacement effect can stop a destroyed tag. By the way, Replacement Effects are an official thing now. Anyways, this means if something like Poison wave would kill Duma and other creatures too, Duma healing those creatures doesn't save them from being destroyed. I've never had a deck with Duma in it so I can't speak from experience on how this impacts Duma play but if someone would like to chime in on it I'd be happy to hear it.

New Errata - 3 more cards have received errata to clean up how they are supposed to work: Magda the Rat, Yzphyz Knowdrone and Life for a Life. 7 cards now have errata. Library Access still not errata'd to be an Alpha. One can dream.

Lots of new questions and answers in the FAQ. Almost an entire page of new questions to help clear numerous interactions up. I will say one in particular stuck out to me:

Gabos Longarms Ruling reversed: I'm pretty sure before if Gabos Longarms attacked an elusive creature all his damage was negated and he dealt no damage with his before fight ability. Now Gabos Longarms can declare an attack on an elusive creature, use his ability and deal damage. Gabos is restored to the way it was supposed to work. 

Also - Library Access + Wild Wormhole process changed again. The last FAQ really spelled out the process in a clear cut and sensible way that was great. However when FFG realized that one of their rulings made sense they had to move and change that, as this interaction has once again been reworded to be more confusing. It's still functionally the same, just more convoluted. The clarification was nice while it lasted.

That's about it for my wrap up. Interesting decisions and a lot of clarifications given out. I am positive there are still some issues out there that have not been resolved. I can't remember what one I asked about back in June but I am fairly confident it wasn't answered. What rulings are you still waiting on? Thoughts on rulings given? Thoughts on the new destroyed sequence and replacement effects being official? Just waiting for laser dinosaurs like I am?

Discuss!

Edited by TheSpitfired

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Nice round up. Sadly you have hit the nail on the head, forum activity is dying out. I really hope there are some insightful responses to your post soon.

For my own part I am a ridiculously casual "round the dinner table" kind of player, so while the extra clarifications are welcome it won't affect me or my friends too hard.

I'll be glad of it when I make that vault tour one day though!

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It is a great step, and unlike most I think the entire situation was handled well. Always sticking to the literal rules is the right way. The Archimedes-ruling was stupid, but correct. If those literal sequences go against the intent of effects or create unforeseen side-effects, make the rules more accurate. This chart future-proofs the rules and makes future rules conflicts easier to resolve by yourself.

I also lament this forum being as dead as it is, I prefer it a lot to the more 'social media-y' environments. Fortunately for the game those are pretty active, so discussion is happening, but yeah...it can be nice here.

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This is a copy+paste from what I posted in my local Keyforge FB group:

Okay after reading some of the examples for resolving damaged things, I am not sure "tagging" them is the best option. Would be interested to see what got passed up before they landed on that.

If only there was some kind of triggering/layer system tha
t could clear this up...

It seems like it would just be easier to have things go to the discard pile first as part of the destruction (unless there is an intervening "instead") and then the destroyed abilities can trigger.

Then you don't have to worry about Archemedies or Martyr Duma corner case:

Example: Archimedes in between four creatures and Gateway, put all five cards into the discard pile and trigger the two neighbors destroyed abilities to put them in archive. (Since Archimedes is already in the discard pile with everything else, it can't get new neighbors)

Example: Martyr and Remiel go to the discard pile since they both took enough damage to destroy them, Martyr's destroyed ability triggers and heals Jehru. (Since Remiel is already in the discard pile, it doesn't need to be tagged)

Example: Groggins - Everything still happens the same, except it is put in the discard pile when destroyed first and goes back to your hand. If it is a memory issue, you can also just errata Phoenix heart to be an "instead"

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Tagging is an interesting choice, and I'm not sure I completely like it either, but I actually can't think of a better system. I think the only case where Tagging really hurts is the Duma the Matryr fringe case where his destruction would heal units that would otherwise be destroyed. For all other situations I think it works pretty well and is a step in the right direction.

Like I said before, it makes Archimedes work the way it should have in board wipes, and gives a clear process for situations with Might makes Right when Archimedes or Haedroth's Wall are in play. Consistency all around.

On 9/5/2019 at 11:48 AM, AnarchyBoi said:

For my own part I am a ridiculously casual "round the dinner table" kind of player, so while the extra clarifications are welcome it won't affect me or my friends too hard.

I'm pretty much in the same boat. My FLGS doesn't really run events anymore but I still have that coworker I can get a game in with on my break. We aren't playing games every night at work but we do get in 1-2 a week.

Next question: As we sit and wait for the end of the month to see what the "special" announcement is, let's speculate! I've got 3 guesses with my thoughts in parenthesis.

`1 - Major update to the App to play the game digitally (Initially I am not sure if I really want this but honestly I would make use of it so I am for it).

2 - Major change of the game to CCG format (Completely against, but if unique format continues alongside it I will not be vocal about it).

3 - Official Multiplayer Rules (I just thought of this and really hope this is what the announcement is, which means it is not likely).

Thoughts on these suggestions? What do you think the special announcement could be?

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Limited run of special halloween themed decks (doubt it, especially so close to Worlds Collide release, but that would be pretty awesome)

I doubt it's online play...just doesn't seem a thing FFG is interested in. I would love to be wrong on this one.

Multiplayer is a real option, I guess.

New stuff you can do with aember shards and/or keys collected on your profile. (how many shards to buy a custom printed foil version of my favorite deck? :D)

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I would love an online platform to let me play more than I do.

Online store linked to Keyforgegame.com so you can use shards from the comfort of home.

Copies of Vault Tour winning decks with special backs so you can play 'em for fun (but not in organised play)

A Logos card featuring 7th President of the United States Andrew Jackson on a pogo stick that returns to your hand every other turn.

Definitely multi-player though. It's coming.

 

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On 9/9/2019 at 11:14 PM, TheSpitfired said:

3 - Official Multiplayer Rules (I just thought of this and really hope this is what the announcement is, which means it is not likely).

I'm still hoping, wanting, and begging for a multiplayer expansion.

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I've just realised that my idea of multi-player may not be the same as everyone else's.

I'm thinking like Two Headed Dragon in MTG.

Is that what you guys mean or are you thinking of three handed (or more) everyone for themselves.

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2 hours ago, AnarchyBoi said:

I've just realised that my idea of multi-player may not be the same as everyone else's.

I'm thinking like Two Headed Dragon in MTG.

Is that what you guys mean or are you thinking of three handed (or more) everyone for themselves.

I was thinking Free for All myself, but now that you mention it "Two Headed Archon" would be sweet too!

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20 hours ago, TheSpitfired said:

I was thinking Free for All myself, but now that you mention it "Two Headed Archon" would be sweet too!

Two-headed archon would be easiest with the current decks and you assumed 1 pool of aember between the two players. 

My hope is for a set designed for multiplayer - which could be free-for-all or team or whatever. But cards would be worded for it like "choose an opponent." (it would probably have to be a set with either no capturing, or capturing would have to have its rules adjusted)

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16 hours ago, AnarchyBoi said:

Don't know why this wasn't top of head when making guesses, but any chance the announcement will be date, location & qualification criteria for the World Championship?

There is no Worlds for Keyforge this year. FFG is usually not this early with announcing dates for next year's World Championship, but maybe if Worlds is in Q1 or Q2 2020 they might announce this.

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