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R3dReVenge

Which 3 units do you want to see point adjustments to?

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So, aside from the obvious ones - AT-ST, Airspeeder and Commander Vader, I'm not hugely fussed about UNITs changing cost.

I am however really hoping theres a rebalance for DLTs and Sniper weaposn (maybe a point or two up), HH-12s, Ion weapons generally (all coming down in price)... but not likely  is it?

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8 minutes ago, famado said:

T-47 down, vader down, snipers up.

Also, I wouldn't mind some quick build cards/lists to use for my unplanned game sessions. Similar to x-wing 2.0.

I like the idea of quick build cards--smaller, shorter games could be cool every once in a while. 

 

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3 minutes ago, TauntaunScout said:

The last week or two of the forum was brought to you by the comments section of a news site, apparently. 

That doesn’t even make sense...like 95% of your posts seeking attention...yawn. Tired of sending your  b——-s and thought you would have another go hey? 

Edited by GhengisharnIV
Tauntaunscout is a misogynist

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8 hours ago, Alpha17 said:

I'd say the biggest bully in this thread is you; for whatever reason, you seem to want to personally insult everyone here for any number of reasons.  I hated the sequels with a firery passion, and then to think that indeed, Rey is a Mary Sue.  I also don't care about GW games or enjoy constantly hearing "well, in XXX game we could do this, Legion should do the same."  That said, there's no reason to be as coarse, rude, and insulting as you are here.  I can't say I've ever reported a post on here before, but I have now. 

Well you can let me know how that works out. If you have the time, read the vituperative responses from all before casting more stones.  Do you report others for bombarding so many threads with their GW garbage? No. Do you report yourself for “hate” of the sequels? Of course not.

I was called a POS and have the right to respond. Will you report that personal attack on me on my behalf? No? Well thanks for nothing...

I respect your right for expression of opinion however I have been attacked by some members of a bullying, petty, cowardly cabal who have banded together to attack a grandmother of all people. I expect these folk tell their husbands/wives/partners/significant others what fine upstanding people they are when not unloading psychological traumas on others in a forum space.

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4 hours ago, R3dReVenge said:

Once again, bad writing by Abrams and company. How do they expect viewers to know this difference if it isn't even clear in the movie?

What a joke of a movie.

Star Wars nerds know that Sith is a specific Force-affiliated religion and not just every bad guy with a lightsaber. The average viewer couldn't give any less of a **** and it doesn't end up mattering anyway. Either you know it, and it doesn't matter, or you don't know it, and it doesn't matter.

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5 hours ago, M.Mustermann said:

Nice theory. The problem of the T-47 against the Tauntauns is not its defence though. Noone who knows what he is doing would ever shoot at the airspeeder with a Tauntaun list. The purpose of the Tauntauns is to mess up trooper units and prevent them from moving to the centre. The airspeeder cannot do a lot against that.

The best case scenario for the T-47 is that it shoots twice on the same unit of Tauntauns without dodge or cover before they are constantly engaged from turn 2 to turn 6. When their melee opponent withdraws, they can simply charge another unit and then reengage a unit that has allready been activated. Even with 2 clean shots, you have to roll extremly hot to kill more than one miniature.

The most viable tactics vs Tauntauns are to overload them with suppression, mess them up with other melee units like Luke or to focus them down. The T-47 is not very helpful with this because his output and its activation count is too pathetic in relation to his cost. Even 3 Trooper units would do more damage against a tauntaun charge on their way in and during the ensuing melee.

The only strength of the T-47 is its mobility. This can be utilized against targets with few and expensive wounds. The Tauntauns are resilient and run towards your gunline anyway.

Tauntauns can’t do their job if they’re dead, now can they? And it’s easiest to kill something when it can’t fight back.

Tauntauns have next to zero resilience; two dodge tokens that are only there after the unit activates does not a solid defense make.

And, to the contrary, with 2 courage you’re more likely to kill them than suppress them.

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1 hour ago, TallGiraffe said:

It isn’t likely to use both in a single interaction though. Couple that with poor dice and exhaust, yes I think it is over costed. 

it is almost on par with a z6 in damage. 10 points makes you a high impact weapon, while also being extremely versatile with blast. an issue with a lot of impact weapons is your opponent may not have any armor. this weapon is still basically a z6 with blast even if there is no armor. what would you pay for a z6 with blast?

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5 hours ago, Derrault said:

Tauntauns can’t do their job if they’re dead, now can they? And it’s easiest to kill something when it can’t fight back.

Tauntauns have next to zero resilience; two dodge tokens that are only there after the unit activates does not a solid defense make.

And, to the contrary, with 2 courage you’re more likely to kill them than suppress them.

Shure. If you  finally  play someone else than your imaginary friend you might  realize why most people are not as enthusiastic about the mighty T-47 as you are.

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45 minutes ago, M.Mustermann said:

Shure. If you  finally  play someone else than your imaginary friend you might  realize why most people are not as enthusiastic about the mighty T-47 as you are.

Right mate, I’ll stick with my actually having tried it out in that matchup.

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2 minutes ago, lunitic501 said:

For a thousand thread posts the jedi were the guardians of peace and justice, that was before the dark times. Before the thread trolls

It’s weird. Must be something in the weather. We used to endlessly disagree and I am guilty of beating a lot of dead horses and going off on tangents that coulda been a sentence instead of 3 paragraphs but this level of insult stuff is new. Now I am apparently a misogynist for some reason? This forum is going off the rails. 

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10 hours ago, Tirion said:

it is almost on par with a z6 in damage. 10 points makes you a high impact weapon, while also being extremely versatile with blast. an issue with a lot of impact weapons is your opponent may not have any armor. this weapon is still basically a z6 with blast even if there is no armor. what would you pay for a z6 with blast?

One that exhausts, especailly when a better, cheaper option with Pierce 1 exists? Not that much.

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6 hours ago, devin.pike.1989 said:

Jeez...  remember when when the biggest argument on this forum was whether or not the T-47 would be exactly in scale?  Remember when the trolls just made pouty threads about how they hated the miniatures and weren't going to buy any?  Those were the days...  

Because anyone making an argument about the T47 being bad must be a troll....

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10 minutes ago, R3dReVenge said:

Because anyone making an argument about the T47 being bad must be a troll....

I dont think that's the problem, the problem only occurred in the past few days on a few threads and mostly involve one person who's post honestly dont make any sense and are pretty aggressive towards other. Any one arguing for or against the t-47 (or any other aspect of the game) arent the problem

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25 minutes ago, R3dReVenge said:

Because anyone making an argument about the T47 being bad must be a troll....

It's more the people who have shifted from our usual thorny pointless debates to open insults. Whereas we would have once said "How can you not see this?" people are now saying "Are you too stupid to see this?". A lot of the insults have moved outside any argument, they're just insults for the sake of establishing enmity as far as I can tell.

I want to like the T-47 and various ion guns but if I were to be serious I think they're what needs a point reduction. But I don't know. I think the issue with big vehicles in Legion comes down to the core mechanics fundamentally hobbling them, therefore anti-vehicle weapons are hobbled too. I fear giving big vehicles a point adjustment will either:

  • Not address the core issues making them hard to play with
  • Make them into a too-good auto-include and a new can of worms will open

I'm afraid of fixing anything via points reductions. That leads to army-creep where you need ever more models just to "Pass Go".

Edited by TauntaunScout

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19 minutes ago, TauntaunScout said:

I think the issue with big vehicles in Legion comes down to the core mechanics fundamentally hobbling them, therefore anti-vehicle weapons are hobbled too. I fear giving big vehicles a point adjustment will either:

I'm curious what mechanics it is that happer the vehicles. Genuinely curious I dint get to play with them enough to make my own analysis.

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15 hours ago, GhengisharnIV said:

Well you can let me know how that works out. If you have the time, read the vituperative responses from all before casting more stones.  Do you report others for bombarding so many threads with their GW garbage? No. Do you report yourself for “hate” of the sequels? Of course not.

I was called a POS and have the right to respond. Will you report that personal attack on me on my behalf? No? Well thanks for nothing...

I respect your right for expression of opinion however I have been attacked by some members of a bullying, petty, cowardly cabal who have banded together to attack a grandmother of all people. I expect these folk tell their husbands/wives/partners/significant others what fine upstanding people they are when not unloading psychological traumas on others in a forum space.

I doubt I will, because after this point I won't see your messages.  The joys of blocking someone.  But, for the sake of fairly responding to your questions:

No, I don't report people for talking about GW garbage.  It's not insulting, doesn't disrupt the flow of conversation, and adds points to the conversation.  

Do I report myself for hating the sequels?  No, because they are films that as a person I have every right to enjoy or hate, and share my opinion about.  I almost always try to not let my dislike of the sequels devolve into disparaging another forum user.  That method of debate apparently was something you never considered.

No, I will not report any "attacks" on you, because you brought them on yourself.  You insulted everyone, taking legitimate complaints about films or units and turning them into personal attacks well before anyone else.  If someone responds in kind, they are not at fault.

And finally, I couldn't care less if you're a grandmother of 6 and a wonderful person who volunteers at your local soup kitchen and spends every Sunday morning in your favorite pew at church; on here, you're insulting, rude, and disruptive.  If there's a "bullying, petty, cowardly cabal" "banned together" to attack you, I must have missed the invite.  Would one of the evil Illuminati of the FFG forum please PM me mine?  Thanks! 

1 hour ago, TauntaunScout said:

It’s weird. Must be something in the weather. We used to endlessly disagree and I am guilty of beating a lot of dead horses and going off on tangents that coulda been a sentence instead of 3 paragraphs but this level of insult stuff is new. Now I am apparently a misogynist for some reason? This forum is going off the rails. 

Very unusual for the Legion forum, but only slightly worse than the normal X-Wing section.  One of many reasons I hopped ship for Legion.  Maybe one of them got bored, and decided to troll us for a while? 

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8 minutes ago, lunitic501 said:

I'm curious what mechanics it is that happer the vehicles. Genuinely curious I dint get to play with them enough to make my own analysis.

  • They can't score VP's since the victory conditions are similar for most missions.
  • Notched bases can't move around well at all, if I use enough terrain. They waste a lot of turns/activations getting stuck.
  • True LOS and the nature of the damage/HP rules mean a big hero is a better use of 200ish points. I don't think the core damage rules differentiate well enough between 1 cannon shell and 50 pistol bullets. Nor do the HP rules differentiate well between a hero skilled at avoiding damage, and an armored tank.

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2 minutes ago, TauntaunScout said:
  • They can't score VP's since the victory conditions are similar for most missions.
  • Notched bases can't move around well at all, if I use enough terrain. They waste a lot of turns/activations getting stuck.
  • True LOS and the nature of the damage/HP rules mean a big hero is a better use of 200ish points. I don't think the core damage rules differentiate well enough between 1 cannon shell and 50 pistol bullets. Nor do the HP rules differentiate well between a hero skilled at avoiding damage, and an armored tank.

These seem pretty accurate to me. 

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17 minutes ago, Djaskim609 said:

These seem pretty accurate to me. 

The hero issue is compounded by heroes being able to score VP's. And heroes can hide out of LOS far more often than vehicles, in case I wasn't clear about how true LOS benefits them. It's tricky to balance though. The disadvantages of always being seen is presumably wholly or partially outweighed by being able to see over scenery to shoot.

Personally I think heroes are still mortal and no matter how many free dodge tokens or cover bonuses they have, humans should still only have a hit point or two. Three for force users. Four for the mostly robotic Vader.

Vehicles on the other hand... I'd make impervious to any blaster smaller than an e-web. Forget crits or aiming. Han should not be able to take out a snowspeeder or AT-ST with his pistol in 6 turns.

But that's just not how these funky custom dice work, so, *shrug*. I play with the figures I want and don't take the outcomes seriously.

But when I play with snowspeeders and ion guns I feel like the designers are actually punishing me. Like it feels decidedly not-fun. So I guess that's what I'd give a points reduction to? But it might not make them fun! So who knows if that's even a solution. The great design of Legion is, I'm not paying any money for those useless ion guns. Unlike other games, there is no lost models if I build my ion guns! So that's pretty cool of Legion's designers.

Edited by TauntaunScout

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