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emeraldbeacon

Cluster Mines... how many bombs?

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This question is admittedly more speculation than anything we have a definitive answer to, but it's worth thinking about, at least...

When placing Cluster Mines (which will soon be available in the upcoming Card Pack expansions), I assume we'll be using the same three-token groupings from first edition.  For purposes of other cards, though, does this count as ONE mine in three pieces, or three separate mines?  Specifically, I'm thinking about Goji, who was revealed in today's article about the Republic Y-Wing.  Would a single deployed Cluster Mine give friendly ships 1 extra defense die... or three?

swz48_pilot-goji.png

Edited by emeraldbeacon

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17 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

My first impression is it'd be 3 mines, but to wait and see seems wise.

In first edition it was three mines. I don't like to assume things work the same from each edition, but we should at least realize the potential for similar rulings.

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Hard to say. I cant imagine they will work the same as they did in 1E (as they were a bit too powerful in that version). At the very least, they will likely cost quite a bit to equip, and my guess is, will require 2 device slots to do so (if for no other reason, than to give Goji direct access to easy dice, but it makes more sense to restrict it to heavy bombers as well). FFG could say one cluster counts as a single bomb, or as 3 separate bombs. They could also just redesign them so its just one long piece, making the 1E tokens useless.

At this point.. who knows.

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4 hours ago, Lyianx said:

They could also just redesign them so its just one long piece, making the 1E tokens useless.

There are some open questions, but I think we know they didn’t do that.

The content list on the product page for the Fully Loaded Devices Pack lists the device tokens as follows:

Within this expansion, you'll find:

  • 8 Fuse Markers
  • 2 Bomblets
  • 1 Cluster Mine Set (3 Cluster Mines)

 

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4 hours ago, Lyianx said:

At the very least, they will likely cost quite a bit to equip, and my guess is, will require 2 device slots to do so (if for no other reason, than to give Goji direct access to easy dice, but it makes more sense to restrict it to heavy bombers as well).

Maybe they'll make them Device / Illicit! After all, there's an international treaty against cluster munitions in real life.

(I very much doubt it. But it would help the Illicit slot feel more valuable, since a lot of people seem to feel it's a bit meh at the moment.)

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11 hours ago, Lyianx said:

if for no other reason, than to give Goji direct access to easy dice

But Goji's access to all the dice wouldn't be too easy.  The only moves Goji can do dial in to get multiple dice from his own cluster mines are 1-bank and barrel roll (adds 2 dice) and 2-hard and barrel roll (adds 3 dice).

To be sure, Clusters allow Goji to set up a massive screen for some *other* pilot, but it's not super easy for Goji (or any other Y-Wing in a list with Goji) to benefit from his own bombs and mines.

6 hours ago, Ysenhal said:

Maybe they'll make them Device / Illicit! After all, there's an international treaty against cluster munitions in real life.

(I very much doubt it. But it would help the Illicit slot feel more valuable, since a lot of people seem to feel it's a bit meh at the moment.)

In which case, there would be three ships in the game which could equip them: Aggressor/IG-2000, Firespray, and Quadjumper.

As to Illicit being meh, Contraband Cybernetics is a legit good upgrade now at 3 points.  Bigger issue is that something like the Scum Z-95 is overpriced to gain access to a slot that probably doesn't want to fill.

Edited by theBitterFig

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16 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

In which case, there would be three ships in the game which could equip them: Aggressor/IG-2000, Firespray, and Quadjumper.

🤨… 3?

Crymorah Goon (31)
Seismic Charges (3)
Deadman’s Switch (2)
Total: 36

Not something I would consider a good build, just demonstrating the slots on the Scum Y-Wing. They're easy enough to forget I guess since they've only really been used as double tap gunships.

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44 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

🤨… 3?

Crymorah Goon (31)
Seismic Charges (3)
Deadman’s Switch (2)
Total: 36

Not something I would consider a good build, just demonstrating the slots on the Scum Y-Wing. They're easy enough to forget I guess since they've only really been used as double tap gunships.

Touche, missed it.

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2 hours ago, Xeletor said:

The question is also relevant for delayed fuses. Do i put 3 fuse markers or 1 ?

"on that device." seems to imply the entire cluster, as all three would count as a single device drop. But that would also mean you have to choose all of them to have fuses, or none of them. No selective fusing. 

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1 hour ago, Lyianx said:

"on that device." seems to imply the entire cluster, as all three would count as a single device drop. But that would also mean you have to choose all of them to have fuses, or none of them. No selective fusing. 

...or, does it mean you only get one fuse, and have to choose which of the 3 mines it goes on?  Or, does the single fuse marker count for the entire cluster (meaning that the first time any ship runs over ONE mine, it stays, but then all three mines go active)?

SPECULATION!  ;)

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5 minutes ago, emeraldbeacon said:

...or, does it mean you only get one fuse, and have to choose which of the 3 mines it goes on?  Or, does the single fuse marker count for the entire cluster (meaning that the first time any ship runs over ONE mine, it stays, but then all three mines go active)?

SPECULATION!  ;)

I thought about the only choosing one, and i wouldnt doubt it if FFG wanted to do it that way, but from a "how it works in the real word" perspective, it makes more sense that all parts of the cluster launch are configured the same way. (granted, that means nothing when it comes to this game and how they want to balance mechanics). Its possible they may say you only pick one of the clusters to fuse, and the rest go as normal. 

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2 hours ago, Lyianx said:

I thought about the only choosing one, and i wouldnt doubt it if FFG wanted to do it that way, but from a "how it works in the real word" perspective, it makes more sense that all parts of the cluster launch are configured the same way. (granted, that means nothing when it comes to this game and how they want to balance mechanics). Its possible they may say you only pick one of the clusters to fuse, and the rest go as normal. 

That's one reason I suspect that Cluster Mines will require device+modification slot to equip, like EP bombs, just to make it virtually impossible to load them with fuses on the same ship.

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37 minutes ago, emeraldbeacon said:

That's one reason I suspect that Cluster Mines will require device+modification slot to equip, like EP bombs, just to make it virtually impossible to load them with fuses on the same ship.

EPB has a fuse default when dropped or launched....

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1 hour ago, Hiemfire said:

EPB has a fuse default when dropped or launched....

Exactly... but it can't be DOUBLE-FUSED, because you can't equip two modifications on any ship with a device slot and Reload (yet).  My point was, simply, to create a situation where Cluster Mines and Delated Fuses couldn't be used in tandem.

EDIT:  Thanks @Hiemfire :D

Edited by emeraldbeacon

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1 minute ago, emeraldbeacon said:

Exactly... but it can't be DOUBLE-FUSED, because you can't equip two modifications on any ship with a device slot and reload  (yet).  My point was, simply, to create a situation where Cluster Mines and Delated Fuses couldn't be used in tandem.

HWK-290 has 2 mod and 1 device. No Reload action is what locks it out of EPB. :)

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Haha, so looking forward to FFG NOT addressing this. 🙄

All the rules-discussions we’ll have!  😄

 

- Goji says (a set of?) 'bomb or mine' and not bomb-token or (single-)mine-token.

- in the set it says 'a set is three (single/separate?!) mines'.

- 8 fuse markers seem a lot to me. And as packs are usually for one player (not designed to share with others)  -  they maybe do calculate three for the ClusterMine?

- nice one: you actually can be at range 0 of a ClusterMine during the engagement phase — if it was fused! Otherwise it would’ve detonated immediately.

 

Alas, I hope for:

—> ClusterMine: drop one ClusterMine (= three tokens)

—> you place one fuse marker; if  someone triggers 'the mine' (one token) the fuse is gone and the whole mine becomes active.

 

happy bombing, happy mining everyone!

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1 hour ago, Tellonius said:

—> you place one fuse marker; if  someone triggers 'the mine' (one token) the fuse is gone and the whole mine becomes active.

That may or may not work, but given how FFG likes to maintain game state with tokens for clear identification, i dont think this would fly. They would require a fuse token to be on each cluster mine token piece, and they dont include that many fuse tokens with the card. And, its just easier a clearer if they say that, rather than try to write out that one fuse token affects three cluster mines, but if they are some how seprated by some unknown ability, do they still retain the fuse and if so how do you know what cluster they are part of and if not why? that makes no sense and blah blah blah rules debates rules debates rules debates.

TL:DR i just see more arguments happening from 1 fuse for the cluster rather than having a fuse per token.

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