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Stinchy

UNDER RATED Rogue one

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7 hours ago, Ling27 said:

To quote a Imperial Guard saying from 40k, "The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush his achievement and remove all record of his very existence. From that defeat there is no recovery. That is the meaning of victory."

Lord Commander Solar Macharius ❤️

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For a certain degree I agree with the OP. The space scenes were great, the new ships were great. Raddus was great. Tarkin, Krennic (Yes I said it!) and the Death Star were great. Nods to the OT were great (Red Five is being destroyed, pilot shots reused). But there were so many BAD things about the movie... The main characters' were poorly written and without any real story arc or decent motivation. Dialogues were dull. How the Rebel leaders acted to the existence of the Death Star was just stupid. They forced Bail, C3PO and R2-D2 needlessly into the movie. Leia was unacceptably badly animated. The Hammerhead vs 2 ISD "solution" was laughable.

I have a weird love-hate relation with this movie. I watched it 3 times already, and there are times when I'm screaming like a little boy so much I enjoy it, but there is always a time when I have to pause it for a few minutes because I'm so enraged about how stupid the movie is sometimes.

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The biggest question it raises in my mind is why there were no Mon Calamari (or any non-humans, really) at Yavin.  Even if their fleet wasn't available, you'd think they'd at least have some representation. 

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30 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

The biggest question it raises in my mind is why there were no Mon Calamari (or any non-humans, really) at Yavin.  Even if their fleet wasn't available, you'd think they'd at least have some representation. 

Perhaps they were still reeling from the losses raddus suffered in rogue one and were refitting and upgunning their ships?

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14 hours ago, AllWingsStandyingBy said:


This incorrectly assumes any of those glorified extras were characters, which as many other's have critiqued above is not really a fair description of any of them. Also, is it really "bold" to let a bunch of people no one has ever heard of and clearly don't exist in the later 6 films of the world die in a prequel?

A weird critique. The beauty of "A New Hope" was that the full richness of the story wasn't explicitly revealed but hinted at. What do we know about Obi-wan from the movie? He's just a crazy old man. We barely knew what a Jedi was. Han isn't even a scoundrel yet in that movie, but we know he can outrun the big Corellian ships (sounds good, but what are they?). Chewbacca is a walking carpet who growls with a little personality. In that movie, Han and Chewie receive about the same development as Chirrut and Baze. Somehow Chirrut and Base don't get the same love because they die, while Han and Chewie live on from their movie to get more development in a further 3 films (or more). Wouldn't it have been better to have Han and Chewie be long-time associates of Obi-wan with a fully-developed relationship that we could observe on screen? No?

I'm not tearing down A New Hope. I'm saying the characters in Rogue One are on par with those in A New Hope. In truth, every one of the characters in Rogue One is grittier than any similar character in A New Hope; closer to Solo and Chewie than to young Skywalker for sure.

Sure, there is not quite the wonder and freshness of storytelling in Rogue One as there is in A New Hope. But that has more to do with the viewer than the movie itself. I think a lot of people are working really hard to develop a reason why they didn't like Rogue One as much as the original trilogy, but the truth is you don't have to say why. Isn't enough for you that you just liked A New Hope better?

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On 8/28/2019 at 1:37 AM, Stinchy said:

To this day I think rogue one is underrated. 

I think it has not only brought armada back.... hammerheads .... raddus... mc75...  but injected Star Wars into the people. 

also it is a great movie.. 

i find very little flaws in it, and I hope the rise of the sky walker can learn from it. 

I thought you where talking about Rogue Squadron.

But yes, the movie was very good.

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5 hours ago, Belisarius09 said:

Perhaps they were still reeling from the losses raddus suffered in rogue one and were refitting and upgunning their ships?

Most likely, the mc-75 had some glaring weaknesses and no doubt due to raddus the alliance lost most of the fleet. The mon cals were probably working triple shifts just to get the mc-80 cruisers refitted for endor. It also explains the sorry state of the rebel fleet at the end of empire strikes back.

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On 8/30/2019 at 5:30 AM, AllWingsStandyingBy said:


This incorrectly assumes any of those glorified extras were characters, which as many other's have critiqued above is not really a fair description of any of them. Also, is it really "bold" to let a bunch of people no one has ever heard of and clearly don't exist in the later 6 films of the world die in a prequel?

Considering its Disney, yes :ph34r:

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On 8/29/2019 at 1:36 AM, LTD said:

Why, when Leia is convinced the Imperials are tracking the Millennium Falcon, do they fly directly to the Rebel Base at Yavin?

This is the big one for me.  It's huge!  "We're being followed, better go straight to our base".  Easily one of the biggest plot holes in all Star Wars.  The fact that it doesn't jump out and detract from the film suggests to me that it's not plot holes that make a bad film, it's film awesomeness that makes us not notice plot holes.  TLJ isn't bad because of all the silly plot nonsense, it's just not good enough to get away with all the silly plot nonsense.

On 8/30/2019 at 7:39 PM, RobertK said:

A weird critique. The beauty of "A New Hope" was that the full richness of the story wasn't explicitly revealed but hinted at. What do we know about Obi-wan from the movie? He's just a crazy old man. We barely knew what a Jedi was. Han isn't even a scoundrel yet in that movie, but we know he can outrun the big Corellian ships (sounds good, but what are they?). Chewbacca is a walking carpet who growls with a little personality. In that movie, Han and Chewie receive about the same development as Chirrut and Baze. Somehow Chirrut and Base don't get the same love because they die, while Han and Chewie live on from their movie to get more development in a further 3 films (or more). Wouldn't it have been better to have Han and Chewie be long-time associates of Obi-wan with a fully-developed relationship that we could observe on screen? No?

I'm not tearing down A New Hope. I'm saying the characters in Rogue One are on par with those in A New Hope. In truth, every one of the characters in Rogue One is grittier than any similar character in A New Hope; closer to Solo and Chewie than to young Skywalker for sure.

Sure, there is not quite the wonder and freshness of storytelling in Rogue One as there is in A New Hope. But that has more to do with the viewer than the movie itself. I think a lot of people are working really hard to develop a reason why they didn't like Rogue One as much as the original trilogy, but the truth is you don't have to say why. Isn't enough for you that you just liked A New Hope better?

I like Rogue One, but I don't buy that.  Han and Chewie have way more character in New Hope than the guy with the staff and the guy with the big gun in Rogue One.  I don't think that's a case of us projecting personality back on them from later films, but if it is then maybe including such characters in a film they can't survive is a bad idea.  But I genuinely don't think that's the case.  Imagining Rogue One without those two takes next to no imagination - it would be almost exactly the same film (perhaps a slightly better one if other characters got more development instead).  Picturing New Hope without Han would change the film completely (Chewie's a more complicated case, I'll grant you - he's kinda like a really awesome prop that adds to the mood and style of the film, like the Falcon).

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11 hours ago, mazz0 said:

Easily one of the biggest plot holes in all Star Wars.

Really, that's the biggest one? How about not shooting the escape pod because there were no life signs?

11 hours ago, mazz0 said:

but if it is then maybe including such characters in a film they can't survive is a bad idea.

Ok, can we stop this "oh the death was so predictable because they could have not survived the film"

Yes they could have. Nobody knew the film would end right before ANH. Remember that the actors signed onto a 2 film deal? Killing the characters at the and of the film was a HUGE surprise. Nobody thought Disney would pull a move like that. Things could have easily turned out differently with them surviving the film and returning for another film (if Rogue One would have not ended moments before ANH but we didn't know that yet by the time our characters died so everything was still possible). Also even if we knew when the film endet how would we know those characters needed to die? Hera Syndulla didn't die at the end of Rebels and the OT movies still work fine without her appearing in them. The same could have worked for theses characters. There is a million possible and sensible ways that film could have ended with the characters surviving. 

Edited by LordCola

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2 hours ago, LordCola said:

Really, that's the biggest one?

 

11 hours ago, mazz0 said:

Easily one of the biggest plot holes in all Star Wars.

 

2 hours ago, LordCola said:

Ok, can we stop this "oh the death was so predictable because they could have not survived the film"

Yes they could have. Nobody new the film would end right before ANH. Remember that the actors signed onto a 2 film deal? Killing the characters at the and of the film was a HUGE surprise. Nobody thought Disney would pull a move like that. Things could have easily turned out differently with them surviving the film and returning for another film (if Rogue One would have not ended moments before ANH but we didn't know that yet by the time our characters died so everything was still possible). Also even if we knew when the film endet how would we know those characters needed to die? Hera Syndulla didn't die at the end of Rebels and the OT movies still work fine without her appearing in them. The same could have worked for theses characters. There is a million possible and sensible ways that film could have ended with the characters surviving. 

Fine by me, I was just accepting the premise somebody else had made and pointing out that if your characters aren't going to have other films to develop in then you either need to develop them in this film or they're going to be pointless forgettable non-characters.

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I agree not shooting the escape pod was a mistake, but that's all it was - he didn't know the droids were on board, he wasn't deliberately, knowingly letting the rebels escape with the plans (as far as we know), while Leia effectively was deliberately, knowingly leading the Empire to the Rebel base.  The Imperial Officer made a foolish mistake (or was an awesome Rebel mole?), Leia did a total act of sabotage against the Alliance!

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3 hours ago, mazz0 said:

I agree not shooting the escape pod was a mistake, but that's all it was - he didn't know the droids were on board, he wasn't deliberately, knowingly letting the rebels escape with the plans (as far as we know), while Leia effectively was deliberately, knowingly leading the Empire to the Rebel base.  The Imperial Officer made a foolish mistake (or was an awesome Rebel mole?), Leia did a total act of sabotage against the Alliance!

If you go by “the Sith of datawork”, then he didn’t because gunner promotions are tied to accuracy, and accuracy is based on Rebel kills- firing shots for no kills, even if they hit their target, are counted as misses.

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