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Virago (star viper title)

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As far as I know people only take this as a 10 point shield upgrade and access to a second mod slot....can someone vouch for the other half of this card:

"During the end phase you may spend a charge to perform a red boost action"

Im trying to drum up a scenario where this would be useful but am failing to do so. Star vipers tend to be stressed alot anyways with their sexy linked action which would make the red boost a no go. Any ideas?

 

Edited by TBot

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The VERY few times I've used it, it's been in, like, the first two rounds or so.  When it didn't really matter.  'Cause, like you said, the 'Viper generally prefers to get stressed using that incredibly useful linked action.  But usually, I've equipped my double-mod-slot 'Viper with both a Shield and Afterburners, so.  Like, never.  Really. 

Yeah.  Good times.

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Only real good uses of that boost I can think of is to get a Viper into a position where a stressed opponent's obvious blue move is blocked and/or get yourself into an unblockable position for a blue move + Actions next turn. Can't say that I have ever seen it used in this fashion though.
....Maybe as a way to get your Viper outside of some range effect, like Sense?

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For the same reasons stated above, I don't think this title would ever see play even if it costed as much as an extra shield. But I also cant find any reason to price it under those 8 points, so...

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So the Virago, besides being a shield and an extra mod slot, is designed to play with Advanced Sensors.  Guri doesn’t really give a crap about her linked actions, unless she’s out of range 1.  And Advanced Sensors adds so much to a Starviper’s potential maneuvers that even a lowly Initiative 3 could make use of it.  But this comes at a cost, besides 10pts...  Advanced Sensors shuts down any further action that activation, making it so you can’t linked action when using Adv S, or even use Afterburners.  Virago is different because the boost happens at the End Phase, and not during your activation.  So a Phat-Guri build can make use of the Virago title ability, and Advanced Sensors, AND her Range-1 awesome sauce, all within the same turn.  

 

The fact it’s a red Boost does limit you on the following turn, but with the Starviper’s modest selection of Blues you should be able to reasonably clear the stress and proceed as you normally would without using Adv S.

Edited by It’s One Of Ours

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7 hours ago, Vespid1311 said:

Only real good uses of that boost I can think of is to get a Viper into a position where a stressed opponent's obvious blue move is blocked and/or get yourself into an unblockable position for a blue move + Actions next turn. Can't say that I have ever seen it used in this fashion though.
....Maybe as a way to get your Viper outside of some range effect, like Sense?

Yup, pretty much this. I used it once to close the range on a Stressed Quadjumper to prevent him from tractoring Guri the following turn. I also used it once to escape the tie swarm furball, as there were too many ties left, and they could easily block my AS shenanigans. But really... I've used like 2-3 charges out of 25 games or so... not too useful

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It's also good on the first couple of turns to try to get into a good flanking position.    4 Straight and Boost is pretty good to get out there.   

I've been thinking of reviving my Prince Xizor list from old....and there is no use for it in my list.   He wants to stay near the Z-95's.   Man, I almost made Top 16 at a Regional with that list.   

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Here's the thing: I don't think Virago needs to be cheaper, even if the boost ability is seldom used.  Since a shield already costs 8, Virago is 2 points for the option of double-mods, and text that maybe is useful.  2 points is a fair price to get a second mod slot on a ship, if you really want a second mod slot.

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1 minute ago, theBitterFig said:

Here's the thing: I don't think Virago needs to be cheaper, even if the boost ability is seldom used.  Since a shield already costs 8, Virago is 2 points for the option of double-mods, and text that maybe is useful.  2 points is a fair price to get a second mod slot on a ship, if you really want a second mod slot.

It really isn't, though.  Slots shouldn't cost anything at all, especially mod slots which are largely useless except for a select few which the SV largely doesn't care about.

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Just now, thespaceinvader said:

It really isn't, though.  Slots shouldn't cost anything at all, especially mod slots which are largely useless except for a select few which the SV largely doesn't care about.

I just don't agree.  If we're talking baseline ships, slots should usually be free.  Kihraxz doesn't cost more for having double mod, double illicit.

But there are times when an extra shot should cost something.  Fully-loaded Virago Guri is certainly one example.  A two-point premium on 2x Shield + Hull or 2x Shield + Afterburners isn't unfair.  Likewise, if there was a unique title for a TIE Interceptor which gave someone a second talent, I'd want it to cost points, since giving Soontir a second talent slot for free would be excessive.  How much would Han Solo pay to get his Illicit slot back?  Certainly more than 2 points.

And again, the text isn't one I've used much, but having a small price-tag associated with that doesn't seem wrong.  If I could buy a stand-alone mod slot for 2 points which allowed me to take a red boost in the end phase, maybe I'd spend 2 points on that on the right ship.

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With Shield Upgrade being 8 pts and Afterburners being 6, I don't see a problem with the title at 10.  The extra slot doesn't matter in the math to me.

I see the boost ability as one used when you aren't stressed.  You won't be stressed every round, especially ok the approach.  You get 2 uses.  Use one on the approach and another saved for that situational time you need it.  

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33 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Here's the thing: I don't think Virago needs to be cheaper, even if the boost ability is seldom used.  Since a shield already costs 8, Virago is 2 points for the option of double-mods, and text that maybe is useful.  2 points is a fair price to get a second mod slot on a ship, if you really want a second mod slot.

If you don't reduce its points, people will keep not using it.

Souless One used to cost 10p and people used it because it was 2x Hull Upgrades + a re-roll. Now it's 6p and everyone uses it. Reduce Virago to 7-8p and it'll start to show up

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2 minutes ago, Vector Strike said:

If you don't reduce its points, people will keep not using it.

Souless One used to cost 10p and people used it because it was 2x Hull Upgrades + a re-roll. Now it's 6p and everyone uses it. Reduce Virago to 7-8p and it'll start to show up

If it were reduced, people would use it more.  Not always a good thing, but a true statement. 

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6 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

With Shield Upgrade being 8 pts and Afterburners being 6, I don't see a problem with the title at 10.  The extra slot doesn't matter in the math to me.

I see the boost ability as one used when you aren't stressed.  You won't be stressed every round, especially ok the approach.  You get 2 uses.  Use one on the approach and another saved for that situational time you need it.  

It occurs to me that Virago lets someone barrel roll and boost in the same turn fairly easily... Opening with a 4-stright into roll into Virago Boost could point you whichever way you want.  Afterburners can do the same thing, but it might be better to save Afterburners for when you can't afford the stress...

5 minutes ago, Vector Strike said:

If you don't reduce its points, people will keep not using it.

Souless One used to cost 10p and people used it because it was 2x Hull Upgrades + a re-roll. Now it's 6p and everyone uses it. Reduce Virago to 7-8p and it'll start to show up

But... people *do* use the upgrade...  They just don't always use the red boosts.  More folks probably experiment with the red boosts on an 8 point Virago, but frequently those charges will go unspent.

Edited by theBitterFig

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6 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

It occurs to me that Virago lets someone barrel roll and boost in the same turn fairly easily... Opening with a 4-stright into roll into Virago Boost could point you whichever way you want.  Afterburners can do the same thing, but it might be better to save Afterburners for when you can't afford the stress...

But... people *do* use the upgrade...  They just don't always use the red boosts.  More folks probably experiment with the red boosts on an 8 point Virago, but frequently those charges will go unspent.

https://meta.listfortress.com/upgrades?

Virago is number 115. It only shows relative success in Boba/Guri* lists (and probably just to give +1 shield or hull upgrade). I believe that an upgrade used in just one list archetype isn't a really competitive one.

I, for one, can't see myself using Virago with generics. Not for 10p.

*such list is only #53 in meta wing

Edited by Vector Strike

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2 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

It occurs to me that Virago lets someone barrel roll and boost in the same turn fairly easily... Opening with a 4-stright into roll into Virago Boost could point you whichever way you want.  Afterburners can do the same thing, but it might be better to save Afterburners for when you can't afford the stress...

But... people *do* use the upgrade...  They just don't always use the red boosts.

The thing is, the boost from the title is in the End Phase, so after shooting.  It's not nearly the same as having double reposition options to line up a shot.

It truly is a bad re-position option, because it projects what you intend to do next turn.  (Both in direction, and forcing a blue move on yourself)

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10 minutes ago, Bort said:

The thing is, the boost from the title is in the End Phase, so after shooting.  It's not nearly the same as having double reposition options to line up a shot.

It truly is a bad re-position option, because it projects what you intend to do next turn.  (Both in direction, and forcing a blue move on yourself)

I disagree.  Don't think of it as a reposition to get a better shot.  Think of it to be in a better spot for next turn.  If you are doing it on approach to get in a better spot, you probably aren't already stressed, so it's not a big deal to get stressed at that point.   End of round you can Boost a little further and turn a bit to set up for the next round.  People surely will be surprised as they don't see it often.  You can always time it right and Boost past an asteroid and get into a better position to Blue move and get a shot next turn....on a flank.

Situational? Yes, but what isn't.  Also, not that hard to pull off.

Oh, also good if you aren't stressed and use it to get away from someone.  The Blue moves and linked actions are good enough that you aren't really hurt from having to do a Blue the next turn.

Edited by heychadwick

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16 minutes ago, Bort said:

The thing is, the boost from the title is in the End Phase, so after shooting.  It's not nearly the same as having double reposition options to line up a shot.

It truly is a bad re-position option, because it projects what you intend to do next turn.  (Both in direction, and forcing a blue move on yourself)

As double reposition, well, it kind of isn't.  But maybe there's a use for it in terms of adapting your opening to whatever your opponent does. When you're on the other side of the board, even an end-phase boost can be handy.

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18 minutes ago, Vector Strike said:

I, for one, can't see myself using Virago with generics. Not for 10p.

Are named titles really all meant to be for generics, though?  You think Xizor just hands the keys to every random mook in his organization?

9 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

I disagree.  Don't think of it as a repetition to get a better shot.  Think of it to be in a better spot for next turn.  If you are doing it on approach to get in a better spot, you probably aren't already stressed, so it's not a big deal to get stressed at that point.   End of round you can Boost a little further and turn a bit to set up for the next round.  People surely will be surprised as they don't see it often.  You can always time it right and Boost past an asteroid and get into a better position to Blue move and get a shot next turn....on a flank.

Just a thought, but would there be any benefit for allowing an ace to get into position to block next turn, or avoid being blocked?

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