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Kieransi

Thought Experiment - X-Wing 3.0

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2.0 didn't reboot Xwing quite as much as I'd have liked. 

1. I would not have used force=calc/focus. It creates too much weird double mod situations. Force could have been charges or totally a different mechanic for doing interesting things. Sadly also, I think its making it possible to get these force users to have huge value shore up their high PS also. 

2. Reduce the number of pieces, and needed objects to play the game. So much to carry and remember for store games. 

3.  size of cards, 1/2 size was so much better. I hate the extra weight to carry and the area they take up. 

4. Reduce the number of rules, and how often you have to track certain rules. Unify and standardize details of rules. (Like TL ok on another ship at R0, but not coordinate nor jam). Reduce complexity. 

5. Make flying matter MORE. Rocks matter more, make gas clouds more debilitating. Value making good hard decisions. Not rewarding easy ones (too many good options via combo wing). Value doing more flying, less on 2ship. 

6. While we're in fantasy land, somehow make the game faster, both in set up and play. Would be nice to get most games done in 45 mins, with 1hr as tourney time. 

7. Reduce commonly seen complexity. Complexity and rules increased in the standard kitchen table game from 1.0 to 2.0.

8. Make more things digital or errata-able. Some ships are just kind of awfully designed, say the red rotate on Jumpmaster. The awful dial on the Kimogila. 

 

--

 

What did work: 

1. Oddly, the force. It does feel cool (though really double mod gimmicky), and it presents an interesting interaction in designing aces/super-ships with force vs without force. say Vader vs Poe.

2. General balance levels

3. Excitement for new factions and ships and keeping the core of the game. I still love playing. 

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6 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Noooooot what I said should happen, for what it's worth.

Ok, what were you proposing as an Un-nerf for turrets, when claiming turret actions are almost never worth it?

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6 hours ago, Azrapse said:

No need of that.

It would be as simple as adding another symbol to the dice. For example ◎.
We have red and green dice as they are. But then add also orange "accuracy" dice with these sides:
blank / eye / eye / ◎ / ◎ / ◎ / ◎◎ / ◎◎ 

During the Neutralize Results step, ◎ symbols are cancelled first, before hit or crits.
During the Deal Damage setp, ◎ symbols deal no damage.

So for example, A-wings will roll their 2 red dice, plus a number of orange dice. Let's say 1 orange die.
They get 2 hits in the red dice, and ◎◎ in the orange die.
The defender rolls 2 evade results.
The 2 ◎ results are cancelled by the evade results, and the 2 remaining hit results deal damage.

This is interesting, results that don't deal damage but soak up evade results. But would be annoying to roll no hits and loads of accuracy results.

Perhaps, each ship has a set amount of damage dealt, 1-3 and the dice = accuracy to hit?

 

Tbh I quite like the current dice set up but could see superior dies being added for the most agile ships and most damaging. An accuracy bonus die might be good, like being able to roll a single accuracy die if target is in the bullseye Etcetera 

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4 hours ago, Scum4Life said:

Ok, what were you proposing as an Un-nerf for turrets, when claiming turret actions are almost never worth it?

Pretty obvious. A different time for switching arcs around, either at the systems or end of the round. For large ships, agile gunner needs to be built in.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Pretty obvious. A different time for switching arcs around, either at the systems or end of the round. For large ships, agile gunner needs to be built in.

Ah ok, it wasn't obvious to me, but @Wedge Nantillais did bring that up and I agree, a systems phase turret rotate would be good, it makes low initiave turrets better but actually weakens higher initiave turreted ships, slightly as they can be arc dodged. I think that would be good overall.

 

But as we've discussed a change as big as that won't happen until a third edition or we get "gyroscopic turrets" a modification that allows you to rotate a turret in the end phase I'd you meet some sort if criteria like you executed a turn or bank etcetera.

Edited by Scum4Life
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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Scum4Life said:

Ah ok, it wasn't obvious to me, but @Wedge Nantillais did bring that up and I agree, a systems phase turret rotate would be good, it makes low initiave turrets better but actually weakens higher initiave turreted ships, slightly as they can be arc dodged. I think that would be good overall.

 

But as we've discussed a change as big as that won't happen until a third edition or we get "gyroscopic turrets" a modification that allows you to rotate a turret in the end phase I'd you meet some sort if criteria like you executed a turn or bank etcetera.

latest?cb=20180914172136

(Follow-up question:  What are these two sitting in?  They're clearly Imperial, but the only Imperial craft with a Gunner slot and that kind of cockpit that I can think of is a TIE Phantom, which doesn't have a mobile arcs.)

Edited by JJ48

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4 hours ago, JJ48 said:

latest?cb=20180914172136

(Follow-up question:  What are these two sitting in?  They're clearly Imperial, but the only Imperial craft with a Gunner slot and that kind of cockpit that I can think of is a TIE Phantom, which doesn't have a mobile arcs.)

I think you're right, but why do I remember the TIE Phantom having seats in front of each other and not side to side?

Maybe they're in a different ship entirely... like, they decided to pull a prank and take their CO's personal ship out for a spin...

"I'm sorry! I thought it would be funny!"

"Well, this thing doesn't have a hyperdrive and THERE GOES OUR RIDE!"

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57 minutes ago, Kehl_Aecea said:

I think you're right, but why do I remember the TIE Phantom having seats in front of each other and not side to side?

Maybe they're in a different ship entirely... like, they decided to pull a prank and take their CO's personal ship out for a spin...

"I'm sorry! I thought it would be funny!"

"Well, this thing doesn't have a hyperdrive and THERE GOES OUR RIDE!"

"'It'll be fun to see the system!' you said.  'We can have the ship back before anyone notices!' you said.  'It'll be hours before Captain Piett finishes his meeting with Lord Vader!' you said.  So, WHERE'S THE ACCUSER, CARL?!"

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There’s a lot of neglected design space in the way blocking works. TIE fighters should NOT be able to stop a YT-1300 without consequence. Nor should a YT-1300 and Epsilon Shuttle meet head on without consequence.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, markrivett said:

 TIE fighters should NOT be able to stop a YT-1300 without consequence. Nor should a YT-1300 and Epsilon Shuttle meet head on without consequence.

Blocking isn't bumper cars in 2D.

Blocking is the YT-1300 hesitating or making a last minute course change to avoid hitting the TIE in 3D.

Edited by Darth Meanie

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On 8/27/2019 at 10:26 AM, JJ48 said:

Randomized expansion packs!  Every pack comes with one random ship, one random pilot card for that ship, ten random upgrades which may or may not apply to that ship, and tokens.  Lots of tokens.

Abso-#@$&-lutely not. 😑

I got out of card games, not looking to buy back in 😂

But speed 4 bank, yeah I'd add that in.

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On 8/27/2019 at 7:26 AM, JJ48 said:

Randomized expansion packs!  Every pack comes with one random ship, one random pilot card for that ship, ten random upgrades which may or may not apply to that ship, and tokens.  Lots of tokens.

giphy.gif

 

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36 minutes ago, ForceSensitive said:

Abso-#@$&-lutely not. 😑

I got out of card games, not looking to buy back in 😂

But speed 4 bank, yeah I'd add that in.

How 'bout if we randomized the tokens, as well?  Ooh!  we could also dispense with base kits altogether, and randomize dice, templates, obstacles, and damage cards, too!

Also, to prevent people from cheating by just purchasing acrylic components, only official 3.0 products or 3.0 tournament prizes will be allowed in organized play.

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6 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Blocking isn't bumper cars in 2D.

Blocking is the YT-1300 hesitating or making a last minute course change to avoid hitting the TIE in 3D.

I know that's what it's supposed to be, but it is bad design, and could be improved.

 

There are other ways to try to inject the 3rd dimension.

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6 hours ago, JJ48 said:

How 'bout if we randomized the tokens, as well?  Ooh!  we could also dispense with base kits altogether, and randomize dice, templates, obstacles, and damage cards, too!

Also, to prevent people from cheating by just purchasing acrylic components, only official 3.0 products or 3.0 tournament prizes will be allowed in organized play.

I WILL TIE YOU TOO A CHAIR IN A SMALL ROOM AND PLAY NOTHING BUT BAD IMPRESSIONS OF THE WORST OF STAR WARS LINES AS PERFORMED BY YOUTUBE AMATEURS. LET'S SEE HOW YOU LIKE JARJAR COSPLAYING ON A BUDGET AS A SEARCH PARAMETER!!!

lol jk bruh. Cheers.😂🤣

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Posted (edited)

One change I was never crazy about was Evade tokens. I kinda wish they were the same as in 1e.

Maybe just change the rules so that a ship may never have more than 1 Evade token at any given time. 

Edited by StriderZessei

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Posted (edited)

Reinforcement (system mechanic instead of an action) :

During the System Phase, if you have active shields (and if you are not stressed ?), you can receive or remove a blue Reinforcement token. If all your shields are inactive, you automatically loose this token. If your reinforced side is attacked, add 1 evade result like in 1st Edition. If your unreinforced side is attacked, apply damages directly on your hull even if you have active shields.

Edited by Wedge Nantillais

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On 8/29/2019 at 1:13 AM, thespaceinvader said:

Why wait til 3e for that though?

Indeed, but for now to play X-wing the standard way you need an App the models and the Cards.

On a note a bit more on topic I would have made 4 speed banks as well just to keep the maneuver options open up. Straight goes all the way up to 5, banks should go up to 4, and hard turns can stay at 3.

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