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RapidReload

Proximity Mine Questions

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If I am at distance 1 to multiple proximity mines after movement, do they all go off or just one?

Can I use Engine Techs to get away from a Proximity Mine that would have been in boom range after the first maneuver?

Cheers

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Posted (edited)
On 8/23/2019 at 10:07 AM, RapidReload said:

If I am at distance 1 to multiple proximity mines after movement, do they all go off or just one?

Can I use Engine Techs to get away from a Proximity Mine that would have been in boom range after the first maneuver?

Cheers

1. They all go off. 

2. No. After the first maneuver, check if you're at distance 1 of any proximity mines. If you are, the mines go boom. After Engine Techs, check again. If you are at distance 1 of proximity mines (they wouldn't be the same mines as before, obviously), the mines go boom.

Edited by Bertie Wooster

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Suplementry question:

Can I sweep a mine in distance 1 of me (with a little luck) before it goes off if I am on Demolisher?

I use Demolisher to do a mine sweeping attack after I move which is the same time as mines explode but I am the activating player and I can choose the order that things occur? 

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15 minutes ago, Mad Cat said:

Suplementry question:

Can I sweep a mine in distance 1 of me (with a little luck) before it goes off if I am on Demolisher?

I use Demolisher to do a mine sweeping attack after I move which is the same time as mines explode but I am the activating player and I can choose the order that things occur? 

https://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2019/08/rebellion-in-rim-obstacles-and.html

"When a ship ends its movement at distance 1 of a proximity mine token, remove that token from the play area and roll two blue dice."
"During your activation, you can perform 1 of your attacks after you execute your first maneuver."

The phrasing isn't the same, so I'm not sure it's the same timing window. "When a ship ends its movement" vs. "after you execute your first maneuver." My opinion would that the proximity mine's timing is the same as the mines from Minefields: "This card’s Special Rule effect resolves during the Move Ship step while executing a maneuver." (From the FAQ, p. 11 https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/68/e1/68e127a4-62df-4fe8-beca-f812ed6540f2/armada_faq_v412compressed.pdf)

In the case of Minefields, "during the Move Ship step" comes before "after you execute your first maneuver" so the Minefield goes off before Demolisher takes its Demolisher shot.

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4 minutes ago, Bertie Wooster said:

https://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2019/08/rebellion-in-rim-obstacles-and.html

"When a ship ends its movement at distance 1 of a proximity mine token, remove that token from the play area and roll two blue dice."
"During your activation, you can perform 1 of your attacks after you execute your first maneuver."

The phrasing isn't the same, so I'm not sure it's the same timing window. "When a ship ends its movement" vs. "after you execute your first maneuver." My opinion would that the proximity mine's timing is the same as the mines from Minefields: "This card’s Special Rule effect resolves during the Move Ship step while executing a maneuver." (From the FAQ, p. 11 https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/68/e1/68e127a4-62df-4fe8-beca-f812ed6540f2/armada_faq_v412compressed.pdf)

In the case of Minefields, "during the Move Ship step" comes before "after you execute your first maneuver" so the Minefield goes off before Demolisher takes its Demolisher shot.

I agree with this, "When a ship ends its movement" happens at the exact moment that the maneuver ends and "After you execute a maneuver" happens immediately after that maneuver.

 

1 hour ago, Bertie Wooster said:

1. They all go off.

With this I beg to differ. As you quoted, the rule says:
"When a ship ends its movement at distance 1 of a proximity mine token, remove that token from the play area and roll two blue dice."

The "When" effects can only happen once per instance:
"A “when” effect occurs at the moment that the specified event occurs and cannot occur again for that instance of the event."

So I'd say that you only may resolve it for 1 mine even if you end at distance 1 of more than one. That is because the triggering effect is a general rule preceeded by "when" and not an effect of each individual mine.

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2 minutes ago, Lemmiwinks86 said:

With this I beg to differ. As you quoted, the rule says:

"When a ship ends its movement at distance 1 of a proximity mine token, remove that token from the play area and roll two blue dice."

The "When" effects can only happen once per instance:
"A “when” effect occurs at the moment that the specified event occurs and cannot occur again for that instance of the event."

So I'd say that you only may resolve it for 1 mine even if you end at distance 1 of more than one. That is because the triggering effect is a general rule preceeded by "when" and not an effect of each individual mine.

Thank you, I was trying to look for that passage about "When" in the RRG and I couldn't find it. Now I wish I did--I stand corrected.

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1 hour ago, Bertie Wooster said:

Thank you, I was trying to look for that passage about "When" in the RRG and I couldn't find it. Now I wish I did--I stand corrected.

Is not one of the easiest to find in my opinion, I always forget where in the RRG that rule is. For refference, it's on page 5 under "Effect use and timing".

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1 hour ago, Lemmiwinks86 said:

So I'd say that you only may resolve it for 1 mine even if you end at distance 1 of more than one. That is because the triggering effect is a general rule preceeded by "when" and not an effect of each individual mine.

How about a comparison with Damaged Controls and overlapping multiple obstacles. That's a "when" trigger with multiple possible resolutions.

Also maybe contrast with Strategic: "When you end your movement at distance 1 of 1 or more objective tokens you may move 1 of those tokens so that it is at distance 1 of you." It specifies that you can only use it on one.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Grumbleduke said:

How about a comparison with Damaged Controls and overlapping multiple obstacles. That's a "when" trigger with multiple possible resolutions.

Also maybe contrast with Strategic: "When you end your movement at distance 1 of 1 or more objective tokens you may move 1 of those tokens so that it is at distance 1 of you." It specifies that you can only use it on one.

For Damaged Controls I don't see an issue. No matter how many obstacles you overlap during that maneuver, you get 1 facedown damage card plus the effects of every obstacle.

For Strategic, I can't think of another way it could be worded.

Edited by Lemmiwinks86

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43 minutes ago, Lemmiwinks86 said:

For Strategic, I can't think of another way it could be worded.

Strategic could be worded like Proximity Mines: "When you end your movement at distance 1 of an objective token you may move that token so that it is at distance 1 of you."

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Minefields are different wording - "If" rather than "When" - but if the rules are written a little ambiguously it makes sense (both from rules and thematic perspectives) to go with them all triggering. The use of "that" also swings things for me; i.e. the effect is referring to just one specific mine, not using something more general like with Strategic - and if it applied to all of them who would choose which one to detonate and how?

Plus they're Proximity Mines. Traditionally they blow up when you get too close - they don't form a committee to decide whose turn it is to blow up.

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6 minutes ago, Grumbleduke said:

Minefields are different wording - "If" rather than "When" - but if the rules are written a little ambiguously it makes sense (both from rules and thematic perspectives) to go with them all triggering. The use of "that" also swings things for me; i.e. the effect is referring to just one specific mine, not using something more general like with Strategic - and if it applied to all of them who would choose which one to detonate and how?

Plus they're Proximity Mines. Traditionally they blow up when you get too close - they don't form a committee to decide whose turn it is to blow up.

It’s much better that way anyway.  🙂

 

If isn’t a timing window as it is. When is. And When is what we’re told to use as the trigger effectively in Minefields / so it’s a technical case.  When I can get my PC up and running after my move and I’m not restricted to phone usage I’ll copy paste that email.

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Essebtiallybrven without that, I see the rule as being attaches to proximity mines / these are proximity mine triggering rules...  they’re not effectively attached to every ship as ship ending moves, as we don’t theoretically check them on every movement wether mines are present or not - we check for trigger from mines...   but again, can be taken ambiguously.

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13 minutes ago, Grumbleduke said:

they don't form a committee to decide whose turn it is to blow up

Well, they should 😁

But seriously, it would make more sense if they all blow up, but with the rules as writen it could be interpreted the other way for what I stated before, so I think some FFG enlightment would be good in this case.

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3 hours ago, Lemmiwinks86 said:

Well, they should 😁

But seriously, it would make more sense if they all blow up, but with the rules as writen it could be interpreted the other way for what I stated before, so I think some FFG enlightment would be good in this case.

Absolutely. But as it’s an unreleased product, you have a long wait...

 

In the meantime, we’ve presented the consensus of former Worlds to, current GenCon to and, well... me, being nobody 🙂

 

hopefully that sticks as so e measure of consensus for tTOs as consistency in rules is best.

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On ‎9‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 6:25 AM, ThatAsianKid1 said:

Would Linked Turbolaser Towers work against proximity mines? I want to say no, but I'd like to see the general consensus.

For the normal red dice reroll it would if you have a red flak Dice but that is limited to two of the SSD variants as the Quasar-II can't take a turbolaser upgrade. 

As for the other LTT effect of adding 2 red dice to that attack I don't think so. It says you get the benefit when attacking your first sqadron meaning the 'target is a squadron' as opposed to 'shooting with your flak dice'. 

Edited by Mad Cat

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On 9/19/2019 at 11:09 AM, Mad Cat said:

For the normal red dice reroll it would if you have a red flak Dice but that is limited to two of the SSD variants as the Quasar-II can't take a turbolaser upgrade. 

As for the other LTT effect of adding 2 red dice to that attack I don't think so. It says you get the benefit when attacking your first sqadron meaning the 'target is a squadron' as opposed to 'shooting with your flak dice'. 

I disagree, the rules state:

"When a ship performs an attack, it can declare one proximity mine token as a target instead of attacking a ship or squadrons. The defending mine token is treated as a squadron with 1 hull point that is not friendly to any ship or squadron and has no keywords or defense tokens. If that token suffers at least 1 point of damage, remove that token from the play area."

As the mine is treated as a squadron all respective anti-squadron upgrades should apply.

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6 minutes ago, RapidReload said:

Another thing:

I could not find a rule that says a ship cannot deploy on top of a mine. In that case, I assume the ship can also not shoot at this specific mine, which might then blow up after movement (looking at SSD).

The precedent we have for "Shooting at a Token" is the Station.

You cannot shoot at it if you are overlapping it.

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If I have Mart Mattin drop a Proximity Mine on an obstacle (not the station or grav rift) and I am playing the Doomed Station objective, is it safe to assume that the mine travels with the obstacle towards the grav rift and as a added bonus, any ship that tries to shoot at it, the shot is obstructed?

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