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Captain Lackwit

First Order loyalist reporting for duty.

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17 hours ago, Hujoe Bigs said:

I am in the boat that kylo is probably the biggest bait ship in the game. He looks good, performs well, but is very much not worth his points. Meh pilot ability and only 2 force and only ps5. I personally believe you should try to stay away from him. Backdraft naked right now is probably the best 39 points you can spend in the game. QD with a Gunner and FCS is a great ace Hunter and cheap too. After that I think it's flavor to taste for the rest of the ships. Tavson while really good, also is a chunk of your list. FOs came down in price a lot as well.

100% disagree on Kylo. He may be the best ship in the game, the argument is there. Survivable 3-die attack with force and an awesome dial. Worth the points.

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I'll speak up a bit in defense of Kylo's ability.

It's not something you use every time you defend, maybe not something that gets used every game.  Personally, I'll only use it if I'm at full force and not going to be attacked again this round.

However, pilot crits can be annoying to deal with.  Panicked Pilot is two stress, which will almost always deny someone an action.  Wounded Pilot is nasty to give to someone with an ability like Full Throttle. Ric Olie needs to either skip his Evade, or else take a risk that he gain a stress and can't clear the Damage card or take a vital movement action to get out of arc.  Blinded Pilot isn't terrible.  Stunned Pilot often won't do anything, but it's impossible to clear, so presents a permanent risk. 

In addition, sending any of these under someone's shields can be handy if the target has regen.

Don't get me wrong: it's probably the second or thrid least-useful pilot ability on a Force user (Ezra's text is pretty blah, Barriss Offee doesn't accomplish a lot), but because the force regenerates each turn, it can often enough be used without consequence, and any good Kylo player should be on the lookout for times when it can be safely used.

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Apparently 4 of the top 8 at Canadian nats are FO. So, that's probably a good source for list ideas once we get the results back. I'm a huge proponent of FO at this point and have blogged a bit about where they're at now and specifically the TIE/SF in detail, I think its an underrated faction for players who work through the nuances of flying some of the solid lists. Kylo and QD are great pieces but they both can burn hard for their points if played incorrectly.

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I absolutely love that artwork for Blackout. Beautiful.

Determined to make a squad with both Kylo and Blackout work. Current thinking is the fly two generic TIE FOs as a screen for Silencers.

Generally though, this faction is in a good place, consistently placing well at major events. 

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On 8/24/2019 at 7:21 AM, StriderZessei said:

I'm sorry, but you must understand: you don't fly Kylo for his ability. You fly him because he's an i5 3-3-4-2 with two force tokens and a tech slot, and one of the best dials in the game. 

He's incredibly versatile, and can be built to carry ordinance, become an unblockable ace with SNR, or an incredibly durable brawler with Hate. 

Granted, I'm hopeful Rush will give me something different that merits flying (i6), but that's due to list fatigue, not a criticism of Kylo. 

I know exactly what he is, he's also way to expensive for what you are getting. That's my point. He looks good on paper, but he ends up taking up half your list, and if your opponent has any i6s or i5s of their own, he becomes no where near as good. Look at other ships around his point cost and what you get for them. If he ends up fighting an imperial list of Fel and Vader, he's going to crumple real fast, even with that impressive stat line.

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On 8/24/2019 at 8:14 AM, dsul413 said:

100% disagree on Kylo. He may be the best ship in the game, the argument is there. Survivable 3-die attack with force and an awesome dial. Worth the points.

Not in my experience. As I couldn't reply to both you and the other guy. I don't think he will get cheaper either. He's to much of your list and to much of a gamble when facing the unknown lists of a tournament. His chassis and force are good. But the cost and i5 hamper him from being worth it.

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There are enough results now to suggest the Omega Special (5 I3 TIE SFs) is a very strong squad. I’ve always thought it looked a bit dull but I’m now seriously looking at it for upcoming hyperspace trials. Is it unfair to call it FO beef in a dismissive manor? 

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Posted (edited)

I have to say, I like Kylo lists and 5 SFs, but I'd like to point out that only 1 FO list made the cut at the recent European Championships (anecdotal, I know, and some lists have been making results in other tournaments).

I think that Kylo or the SFs are the way to go if you're going FO, though (I'm personally thinking of mixing them in one list, you can squeeze 3 decent SFs with Kylo.).

Edited by Rojek

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4 minutes ago, Rojek said:

I have to say, I like Kylo lists and 5 SFs, but I'd like to point out that only 1 FO list made the cut at the recent European Championships (anecdotal, I know, and some lists have been making results in other tournaments).

I think that Kylo or the SFs are the way to go if you're going FO, though (I'm personally thinking of mixing them in one list, you can squeeze 3 decent SFs with Kylo.).

Are there VoD's available yet? Which list was it? 

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7 minutes ago, Rojek said:

I have to say, I like Kylo lists and 5 SFs, but I'd like to point out that only 1 FO list made the cut at the recent European Championships (anecdotal, I know, and some lists have been making results in other tournaments).

I think that Kylo or the SFs are the way to go if you're going FO, though (I'm personally thinking of mixing them in one list, you can squeeze 3 decent SFs with Kylo.).

I’m thinking the same. 5 seems a bit vanilla but 3 and Kylo is a lot more fun. 

How are you looking to load out the SFs? 

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12 minutes ago, Stagsquad13 said:

I’m thinking the same. 5 seems a bit vanilla but 3 and Kylo is a lot more fun. 

How are you looking to load out the SFs? 

I've flown a naked kylo along with 3 zetas with concussion/passive. You could also swap concussions for ions in order to upgrade to omegas/or add fcs. Alternatively, 3 omegas with fanatical/optics make for some very reliable 2 reds. 

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, StriderZessei said:

Are there VoD's available yet? Which list was it? 

Just based on the lists that were submitted and the amount of wins that each team had accumulated per faction I think the only FO list to make the cut during the European championship in Poland was Poland's Lukasz G.

The list was Midnight, Kylo with hate and Blackout with trickshot. 189/200.

 

Spain also did well too and the player ran 3x zeta's with passive sensors and concussion missiles followed by a Scorch with fanatical.

 

Most other FO lists were variations of TIE/sf's.

 

Edit: Don't quote me on the standings. I could be completely wrong. I'm just looking at the spreadsheet that was posted a few days ago and that is certainly not conclusive.

Edited by Vidias

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Posted (edited)

I've been running a lot of Kylo plus various TIE/SF combinations lately.

My starting point has been Kylo with Adv Optics and Sense. Optics is a bargain way of upping his offense and Sense is very valuable when running up against a lot of the aces out there.

I've found the Zeta Survivor with Optics to be the best starting point, it boils the ship down to it's most efficient basics. You don't have to worry about arc moving and if you still have the focus for offense it's a good boost to your hit chance. At 36 points you get a lot of work out of this ship and a surprisingly consistent offense, Its major weakness is if you're facing a large number of high agility ships those two dice can take a long time to plink away.

If I have a few more points to spend I'll go up to the Omega Experts and add crackshot. Fanatical is good, but you have to wait to use it and many times I've been popped before it fires. Crackshot front loads your damage a bit and really helps pushing through the damage on those high agility targets the Zetas sometimes suffer against.

The next upgrade would be pushing one to Backdraft. He's essentially the Expert all over again but with the bonus of the 3 dice rear attack. If you can fit it he's worth the few more points.

My two favorite variations are:

Kylo w/ Adv Optics, Sense, Prockets
Zeta Survivor w/ Adv Optics x3

This list gives you the base efficiency of the Zetas along with a Kylo who can provide a hard punch when needed. My only issue with the list is the lure of the procket shot sometimes gets me in trouble.

 

Kylo w/ Adv Optics, Sense
Backdraft w/ Adv Optics
Zeta Survivor w/ Adv Optics x 2

This one trades the prockets for Backdraft for a more even spread of offense. You lose the procket punch in exchange for the bigger gun on BD. With this list BD seems to attract most of the hate so you can use that in your favor at times.

I'm also experimenting with one more variation that trades the Sense on Kylo to upgrade the fourth ship to Midnight with Pattern Analyzer, but I'm not sold on that one yet. The I6 is a nice perk but I just have a hard time so far of getting enough offense out of her.

Edited by Pleugim

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42 minutes ago, Vidias said:

Just based on the lists that were submitted and the amount of wins that each team had accumulated per faction I think the only FO list to make the cut during the European championship in Poland was Poland's Lukasz G.

The list was Midnight, Kylo with hate and Blackout with trickshot. 189/200.

 

Spain also did well too and the player ran 3x zeta's with passive sensors and concussion missiles followed by a Scorch with fanatical.

 

Most other FO lists were variations of TIE/sf's.

 

Edit: Don't quote me on the standings. I could be completely wrong. I'm just looking at the spreadsheet that was posted a few days ago and that is certainly not conclusive.

Nope, Łukasz was 4-2, just like me.

 

It was this crazy list with just Kylo and Tavson:

Lieutenant Tavson + Biohexacrypt Codes + Supreme Leader Snoke + Captain Phasma + Advanced Sensors + Shield Upgrade
Kylo Ren + Hate + Advanced Optics + Proton Torpedoes

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27 minutes ago, Pleugim said:

I've been running a lot of Kylo plus various TIE/SF combinations lately.

My starting point has been Kylo with Adv Optics and Sense. Optics is a bargain way of upping his offense and Sense is very valuable when running up against a lot of the aces out there.

I've found the Zeta Survivor with Optics to be the best starting point, it boils the ship down to it's most efficient basics. You don't have to worry about arc moving and if you still have the focus for offense it's a good boost to your hit chance. At 36 points you get a lot of work out of this ship and a surprisingly consistent offense, Its major weakness is if you're facing a large number of high agility ships those two dice can take a long time to plink away.

If I have a few more points to spend I'll go up to the Omega Experts and add crackshot. Fanatical is good, but you have to wait to use it and many times I've been popped before it fires. Crackshot front loads your damage a bit and really helps pushing through the damage on those high agility targets the Zetas sometimes suffer against.

The next upgrade would be pushing one to Backdraft. He's essentially the Expert all over again but with the bonus of the 3 dice rear attack. If you can fit it he's worth the few more points.

My two favorite variations are:

Kylo w/ Adv Optics, Sense, Prockets
Zeta Survivor w/ Adv Optics x3

This list gives you the base efficiency of the Zetas along with a Kylo who can provide a hard punch when needed. My only issue with the list is the lure of the procket shot sometimes gets me in trouble.

 

Kylo w/ Adv Optics, Sense
Backdraft w/ Adv Optics
Zeta Survivor w/ Adv Optics x 2

This one trades the prockets for Backdraft for a more even spread of offense. You lose the procket punch in exchange for the bigger gun on BD. With this list BD seems to attract most of the hate so you can use that in your favor at times.

I'm also experimenting with one more variation that trades the Sense on Kylo to upgrade the fourth ship to Midnight with Pattern Analyzer, but I'm not sold on that one yet. The I6 is a nice perk but I just have a hard time so far of getting enough offense out of her.

Pffft. I've been flying Kylo+ Zetas since April. Only difference is that I have my Zetas carry missiles. People underestimate the kill boxes you can create with the heavy weapon turret ability. 

TIE/sf Fighter - Zeta Squadron Survivor - 38
    Zeta Squadron Survivor - (32)
        Concussion Missiles (6)

TIE/sf Fighter - Zeta Squadron Survivor - 38
    Zeta Squadron Survivor - (32)
        Concussion Missiles (6)

TIE/sf Fighter - Zeta Squadron Survivor - 38
    Zeta Squadron Survivor - (32)
        Concussion Missiles (6)

TIE/vn Silencer - •Kylo Ren - 81
    •Kylo Ren - Tormented Apprentice (76)
        Pattern Analyzer (5)

Total: 195/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

 

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I'm having trouble getting people to really believe me, but I think Kylo with 4 TIE/fos is a great list.  It gets you an extra ship over taking SFs alongside Kylo, and FOs are sorta cool in their own right.  The mix I like best so far is Scorch/Crack Shot, 2x Omega/Crack Shot, and Lt. Rivas, but you can basically try it with whatever you like.  I've mostly run Kylo with no upgrades, but you can trim stuff of the the FOs to put points into Kylo.

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23 minutes ago, AgentoftheEmpire said:

Pffft. I've been flying Kylo+ Zetas since April. Only difference is that I have my Zetas carry missiles. People underestimate the kill boxes you can create with the heavy weapon turret ability. 

TIE/sf Fighter - Zeta Squadron Survivor - 38
    Zeta Squadron Survivor - (32)
        Concussion Missiles (6)

TIE/sf Fighter - Zeta Squadron Survivor - 38
    Zeta Squadron Survivor - (32)
        Concussion Missiles (6)

TIE/sf Fighter - Zeta Squadron Survivor - 38
    Zeta Squadron Survivor - (32)
        Concussion Missiles (6)

TIE/vn Silencer - •Kylo Ren - 81
    •Kylo Ren - Tormented Apprentice (76)
        Pattern Analyzer (5)

Total: 195/200

View in the X-Wing Squad Builder

 

I flew the missile variants a bit also and I liked it well enough, I've just had more success with the Adv Optics variant since they run cheaper, always have double arc, and a focus for defense. I ran into situations where the passive sensor equipped variants didn't have shots due to being blocked and was sad not to have that back arc available. They seem solid though, I think it may just be personal preference.

 

24 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I'm having trouble getting people to really believe me, but I think Kylo with 4 TIE/fos is a great list.  It gets you an extra ship over taking SFs alongside Kylo, and FOs are sorta cool in their own right.  The mix I like best so far is Scorch/Crack Shot, 2x Omega/Crack Shot, and Lt. Rivas, but you can basically try it with whatever you like.  I've mostly run Kylo with no upgrades, but you can trim stuff of the the FOs to put points into Kylo.

Those are next on my list after reading your latest article.

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36 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I'm having trouble getting people to really believe me, but I think Kylo with 4 TIE/fos is a great list.  It gets you an extra ship over taking SFs alongside Kylo, and FOs are sorta cool in their own right.  The mix I like best so far is Scorch/Crack Shot, 2x Omega/Crack Shot, and Lt. Rivas, but you can basically try it with whatever you like.  I've mostly run Kylo with no upgrades, but you can trim stuff of the the FOs to put points into Kylo.

I read your article, which was great, and it definitely got me interested. I think where I like the SF is it is fairly straight forward to play over the course of a long day. Setting them up as mini fire sprays really let’s you focus on your Kylo play. But your list looks fun and effective 

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50 minutes ago, Rojek said:

Nope, Łukasz was 4-2, just like me.

 

It was this crazy list with just Kylo and Tavson:

Lieutenant Tavson + Biohexacrypt Codes + Supreme Leader Snoke + Captain Phasma + Advanced Sensors + Shield Upgrade
Kylo Ren + Hate + Advanced Optics + Proton Torpedoes

Ah. There you have it. 

Thanks for the clarification on that note, Rojek. :)

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5 hours ago, Stagsquad13 said:

There are enough results now to suggest the Omega Special (5 I3 TIE SFs) is a very strong squad. I’ve always thought it looked a bit dull but I’m now seriously looking at it for upcoming hyperspace trials. Is it unfair to call it FO beef in a dismissive manor? 

There are two strong 5sf lists around atm. 

5x I3's with Fanatical + AO

Backdraft & 4x I3's with Crack + AO

It really is FO beef too as you just fly simply and focus, with the occasional sloop or barrel roll.

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Kylo Ren — TIE/vn Silencer 76
Ship Total: 76
Half Points: 38 Threshold: 3
   
Zeta Squadron Survivor — TIE/SF Fighter 32
Concussion Missiles 6
Passive Sensors 3
Ship Total: 41
Half Points: 21 Threshold: 3
   
Zeta Squadron Survivor — TIE/SF Fighter 32
Concussion Missiles 6
Passive Sensors 3
Ship Total: 41
Half Points: 21 Threshold: 3
   
Zeta Squadron Survivor — TIE/SF Fighter 32
Concussion Missiles 6
Passive Sensors 3
Ship Total: 41
Half Points: 21 Threshold: 3

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