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Bucknife

Where are the Rebels?

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Most of what you listed isn’t in Hyperspace. Which is still what a lot of people are playing.

I’ll personally return to Rebels a bit when the Ghost becomes Hyperspace legal (or I have an Extended event), but I do sorely miss Wookiees and E-Wings.

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....and Turret Ywings? 

Are they dead simply because VTG went up to 8? 

Would anyone take a Yion over a U-Wing?

And we're seeing four U-Wings succeed and seeing ZERO Y-Wings? 

What am I missing? Or does the Rebel floor need some more tweaks?

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This could be good for a laugh. Lots of health lots of dice 

New Squadron

(68) Lothal Rebel [VCX-100 Light Freighter]
(3) Dorsal Turret
(8) Veteran Turret Gunner
Points: 79

(68) Lothal Rebel [VCX-100 Light Freighter]
(3) Dorsal Turret
(8) Veteran Turret Gunner
Points: 79

(31) Gray Squadron Bomber [BTL-A4 Y-wing]
(3) Dorsal Turret
(8) Veteran Turret Gunner
Points: 42

Total points: 200

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Rebels are still a decent faction, but they stink of being the least efficient faction currently. a lot of stuff is priced right, but if you weren’t in handbrake Han on rebel beef you didn’t get touched, While a fair amount of chassis’s did. We also are in a predominantly 3 aces or swarm meta, neither of which the rebels particularly excell at, especially compared to how almost criminally a lot of stuff is priced in other factions. 

Theres also Selfless, which is a garbage card to start with, at least competitively speaking. You’re taking half points off one ship to make it easier to score half point the following turn. Now it is priced right with the chassis currently, most 4 ship builds allow for Selfless or regen, but not both without sacrificing other components of the squad, but the problem still remains you’re either gambling for your opponent roles a lot of crits. You also have to build your list around it, or not bother with it. It really stinks compared to Fanatical, dedicated, and Heroic, which are mostly universal. Rebels desperately need a new faction identity card. (Stay on target from first edition would be a good one). (Empire kinda does to, ruthless only really favors decimators or the day Empire has access to deadman’s switch, but at least it’s costed correctly). 

If regen points don’t change, I really think the Xs and Ys could use a point drop across the board (even Wedge and Dutch, 54 and 39 is still reasonable), as well as U-wings not named Cassian.  I would also argue the generics save Blue squadron pilot (B-wing) , blue squadron scout (X-wing) and Carven angel zealot could also use a 1 point drop. 

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In hyperspace, Rebels make cut at pretty much exactly the average rate (neither over- nor under- performing relative to how many show up), and show up a bit more often than 2 other factions (CIS/Scum) and a only bit less often than the next two factions (Resistance/First Order). In other words, if you ignore empire and republic, Rebels are pretty much middle of the road both in terms of popularity and cut rate for the remaining 5 factions.

 

This is maybe going to be a weird adjustment for some people. Rebels, as a faction, will probably never be as popular as you remember ever again. There's seven!!! factions now - what you remember as rebel popularity even when rebels were at their most unpopular before, was still substantially higher than average for 7 factions would be now.

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3 hours ago, Bucknife said:

Where's Luke T65?

Where's Dash?

Where's the Ghost? 

Is the Sabine Attack Shuttle costed out?

Where are the Wookies?

E-Wings?

I'm pretty sure Luke is still one of the best end-gamers. And Wedge Luke PTs + 3rd ship (uwing?) is still pretty good. 
Also wedge luke in some modified 4 ship rebels is still ok. 

Dash, I'm thankful I don't see him lol. 

Ghost, I've seen used pretty often as a big hitter. No idea about efficacy of the named ones tho. 

No idea Sabine Attack Shuttle. 

No idea Wookkies. 

Ewings, are definitely overcosted imo. They have a medium-high learning curve too. I've played a few games with I2, I4 and Corran. Very fun. Slightly overcosted. Generics could go down to 50 and 52. The lack of linked boost/BR->focus hurts efficacy, while upping fun. The linked TLs and fast blue moves are fun, but not gravy like linked focus and more blue options. PTorps going up also reduces the efficacy of the generics. Corran is much harder to use because of bullseye. I use the ability maybe once a game. Gaining boost is great fun tho. 

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55 minutes ago, Schu81 said:

The Elephant in the room .....

let's talk about it.

Rebels got nerfed into oblivion. Obviously.

Uh... I hope you are joking:

3 hours ago, svelok said:

Rebels make cut at pretty much exactly the average rate (neither over- nor under- performing relative to how many show up)

 

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Well, I was exaggerating, that's for sure.

Rebels are not in a hopeless state now, but so many ships are much weaker / more expensive now.

It feels like they gained nothing but lost very much in the last point update. Almost all of my favorite ships got nerfed in the last update.

And no, I have never played Rebel Beef or Handbrake Han (plus I don't netlist).

But the result is: If you really want to win a tournament, Rebels are not a good choice at the moment.

 

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4 hours ago, FlyingAnchors said:

Theres also Selfless, which is a garbage card to start with, at least competitively speaking. You’re taking half points off one ship to make it easier to score half point the following turn. Now it is priced right with the chassis currently, most 4 ship builds allow for Selfless or regen, but not both without sacrificing other components of the squad, but the problem still remains you’re either gambling for your opponent roles a lot of crits. You also have to build your list around it, or not bother with it. It really stinks compared to Fanatical, dedicated, and Heroic, which are mostly universal. Rebels desperately need a new faction identity card. 

Selfless is an excellent card.

Which leads me to the conclusion long hypothesised by others. That the problem with the Rebel faction is of course Rebel players.

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1 hour ago, Schu81 said:

It feels like they gained nothing but lost very much in the last point update. Almost all of my favorite ships got nerfed in the last update.

And no, I have never played Rebel Beef or Handbrake Han (plus I don't netlist).

Then exactly what favorite pilots of yours got nerfed? Especially if they weren't part of the strong Rebel Beef choices. You're also stating ships here, so I assume pilots, but we can talk upgrades too. 

And what upgrades?? Leia?? Cmon, that isn't 2 points. VTG and turrets might still be undercoated now (and universal anyway). Are you really sure you're whining about something so unfair? 

Luke-gunner?? I mean, cmon, that was some of the worst 1.0 attributes that we definitely aren't getting in 2.0. 

 

Yknow, I'd also suggest you may really want to have a 2nd faction. Preferably something really different, like Separatists or FO or Empire or Republic. It'll give you a lot of perspective. Scum, Resistance are rather similar to Rebels, I don't think you will get much perspective or respect from other players who have played other factions. 

Anyway. I still dunno what you think is so trashy about Rebels. 

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1 hour ago, Schu81 said:

Well, I was exaggerating, that's for sure.

Rebels are not in a hopeless state now, but so many ships are much weaker / more expensive now.

It feels like they gained nothing but lost very much in the last point update. Almost all of my favorite ships got nerfed in the last update.

And no, I have never played Rebel Beef or Handbrake Han (plus I don't netlist).

But the result is: If you really want to win a tournament, Rebels are not a good choice at the moment.

 

Yes, Rebels got hit by the balance hammer. This is a good thing.

All the rebel ships are still playable, they simply aren't better than other factions' equivalent ships any more.

A lot of tournament players have abandoned Rebels, just as a lot of them abandoned Scum earlier. This is also a good thing - at least for FFG, as more movement between factions means they sell more stuff. Republic, CIS, Resistance, and even FO are being used more.

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Ok @bucknife

You've inspired me.  I'm gonna give this a shot

 

New Squadron

(62) Luke Skywalker [T-65 X-wing]
(4) R2 Astromech
(0) Servomotor S-foils
Points: 66

(31) Gray Squadron Bomber [BTL-A4 Y-wing]
(3) Dorsal Turret
(8) Veteran Turret Gunner
Points: 42

(31) Gray Squadron Bomber [BTL-A4 Y-wing]
(3) Dorsal Turret
(8) Veteran Turret Gunner
Points: 42

(49) Bodhi Rook [UT-60D U-wing]
Points: 49

Total points: 199

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5 hours ago, Darth Seridur said:

Selfless is an excellent card.

Which leads me to the conclusion long hypothesised by others. That the problem with the Rebel faction is of course Rebel players.

I deduce you’ve never actually flown anything with selfless, so you’re really talking about something you don’t understand. 

Sure the mechanic idea is nice, (in practice) pull a crit from your ace to a ship not currently getting shot, presumably a ship with either lots of shields or regen available, but you will run out of regen, and sooner or later you run out of hit points to spend. This also assumes that your opponent is going to have crits to deflect, which isn’t always guaranteed. 

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Rebels are around and reliably making cuts. They just aren't monkey-stomping every other faction into the ground with hyper efficient beef so they aren't making waves. The non-hyperspace Rebel stuff that you mentioned needs looking at as I have yet to see a YT2400 do well since Dirty Dash, Ghosts are B-tier (not bad but not great either), E-wings are very mildy over costed right now. The lower 3 could drop by 1 point but no more. Corran could drop by 2, as his ability just isn't as strong in 2nd. Auzitucks are overcosted, but I don't want to see them drop much. A local runs quad Wookiees with Leia, and it is very annoying. Being able to hard stop twice in a row with 180 arcs is strong. It's not a great list, but I fear what is can become. Sabine Shuttle and TIE for that matter could drop back down by a point on the shuttle and by 2 on the TIE. I think FFG overreacted on how good they thought she would be (especially on the TIE).

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1 hour ago, FlyingAnchors said:

I deduce you’ve never actually flown anything with selfless, so you’re really talking about something you don’t understand. 

Sure the mechanic idea is nice, (in practice) pull a crit from your ace to a ship not currently getting shot, presumably a ship with either lots of shields or regen available, but you will run out of regen, and sooner or later you run out of hit points to spend. This also assumes that your opponent is going to have crits to deflect, which isn’t always guaranteed. 

Further proving that the issue with the Rebel faction is the Rebel players.

Can't understand the value of spreading damage, and keeping ships on the board.

Really though, they are probably the most balanced. Their best archetype is beef, but they can play other types effectively. Maybe a bit of other factions do the other archetypes better is keeping their numbers down. Then again, they're definitely going to seem lower after they were everywhere last point update.

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I don't consider myself an expert on the meta by any means, but I did just win a local 9 man tourney with 3 T-65s (Luke, Wedge, Biggs).  I didn't fly anything extraordinary or ridiculous, but honestly I think 2nd Ed has done a good job of getting rid of most of the ridiculous stuff.  Most of the guys at the event have been playing for at least 3-4 years, so we're not noobs by any stretch, but none of us show up at major events either.

I play 3 factions (Rebels, Empire, Separatists), I don't think any of them are noticeably better than any of the others.  There are 3 of us in my group of 9 who tend to place at or near the top of our events, but we're not far and away better than the rest of the regulars who show up.  All factions are represented in our group, and they all seem to do OK for us.

 

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Sigma Phantoms likely aren't as bad as their 111th pilot ranking on Metawing, but folks probably just don't want to fly them anymore.

The July nerfs to Rebels were important, but I think more than simply making Rebels worse, it gave folks who might have been bored of rebels an excuse to jump ship.  Rebel Beef was the best list for a very long time.  Probably a lot of folks flew it, less out of a love of rebels, and more because it was good.  Likewise ID Han.  Now, Han's a lot worse, and Beef is more expensive.

But Rebels aren't *GONE* gone.  They're just normal.  German Nationals had 17% Rebel lists out of 140, and 12.5% of the post-cut lists were Rebels.

 

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Being in broad terms a "rebel player" myself I would say that rebels right now don't excel at anything, and that makes them boring to play.

Wanna play aces? Luke,Corran and Wedge look good right? Except no one as doble reposition (or mod + reposition) and you could just play Repubilc or Empire for better aces.

Wanna play slow sturdy ships that can take a beating? Republic sinker swarms are better.

The sad true is that rebel were made around jousting ships, and the lack of interesting ship abilities makes that clear. 

I'm not saying that rebels are a "bad", not at all!! Luke/Wedge/UWing/somthing is a strong list! but with very few tricks under his sleeves

 

 

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35 minutes ago, DerRitter said:

Being in broad terms a "rebel player" myself I would say that rebels right now don't excel at anything, and that makes them boring to play.

Wanna play aces? Luke,Corran and Wedge look good right? Except no one as doble reposition (or mod + reposition) and you could just play Repubilc or Empire for better aces.

Wanna play slow sturdy ships that can take a beating? Republic sinker swarms are better.

The sad true is that rebel were made around jousting ships, and the lack of interesting ship abilities makes that clear. 

I'm not saying that rebels are a "bad", not at all!! Luke/Wedge/UWing/somthing is a strong list! but with very few tricks under his sleeves

 

 

 

If a faction doesn't offer an advantage over other factions, it is "bad". I think people are too hesitant to use "bad" to describe a faction in 2.0 because in 1.0 that generally translated to "complete garbage". Bad in 2.0 is just "lower than normal cut rate". The disparity between best and worst simply isn't as substantial now. So, while I will say I consider Rebels the weakest faction, I don't think it's to a degree that can't be overcome by practice and skill.

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