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Andrew Navaro Q&A

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Here's some of the responses summed up.

 

I want to be totally clear that I really appreciate how open he was in this. This is really the level of communication that probably could've left fans feeling a lot less frustrated over the past year, so I honestly can't fault him for this at all.

 

That being said, a lot of what's in there, for IA, Descent, and just the general direction of the company, seems troublesome to me.  I dunno, it seems like they really are shifting to a more tabletop mini/LCG model now.  Not a lot there that interests me. 

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"Business reasons" may have nothing to do with Hasbro or Legion. It may just have to do with sales of the physical game. Distributors and stores expect a certain amount of turn around. IA may have missed the mark due to low sales. Before Legion, IA was a niche game where I am at. Few people played it. Product sat on the self. Game stores hate that, distributors like to distribute not warehouse.

That same Q&A made it clear LCGs had issues as well. We all know Netrunner got the axe. Problem there was, before Netrunner got the axe, its sales were way down. While no one ever came clean on what happened with the license, though writing a check of any size for a game license with slipping sales is hard to write.

IA and Descent just might not have the sale numbers to continue going. New flashy games sell, old games just don't. IA has been around long enough that everyone who wanted a copy has a copy pretty much. The board game market is very competitive.

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(Android:Netrunner got the ax because FFG lost the license to the Netrunner game mechanisms. Whether it was because the license would've cost too much is irrelevant. There were packs in development when it happened! Certainly does not sound to have been axed because of low sales.)

Edited by a1bert

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1 hour ago, a1bert said:

(Android:Netrunner got the ax because FFG lost the license to the Netrunner game mechanisms. Whether it was because the license would've cost too much is irrelevant. There were packs in development when it happened! Certainly does not sound to have been axed because of low sales.)

Development decisions and business decisions don't always over lap. Sounds like the development team, which isn't let in on the business decisions or discussions, found out about it after the fact. Have no mistake, that license wasn't renewed because of business decisions and nothing to do with development. Also keep in mind FFG got bought out after the netrunner license was signed. Always confusion after a buyout. Asmodee got a bill and made a business decision not to pay it and why would they? Flashy new games sell, not old ones. Netrunner had sadly been in decline for a couple of years. Keyforge and Marvel are the new flashy. Best to put the money toward those licenses and cut under preforming ones. Just how these things work.

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2 hours ago, Mep said:

Development decisions and business decisions don't always over lap. Sounds like the development team, which isn't let in on the business decisions or discussions, found out about it after the fact. Have no mistake, that license wasn't renewed because of business decisions and nothing to do with development. Also keep in mind FFG got bought out after the netrunner license was signed. Always confusion after a buyout. Asmodee got a bill and made a business decision not to pay it and why would they? Flashy new games sell, not old ones. Netrunner had sadly been in decline for a couple of years. Keyforge and Marvel are the new flashy. Best to put the money toward those licenses and cut under preforming ones. Just how these things work.

For asmodee and Disney for sure. Gotta make big bucks off that 4bill they gave to Goerge, and they aren't going to spend extra time and resources greenlighting content on "underperformers" no matter what we think of them.

Edited by Ralgon

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4 hours ago, a1bert said:

(Android:Netrunner got the ax because FFG lost the license to the Netrunner game mechanisms. Whether it was because the license would've cost too much is irrelevant. There were packs in development when it happened! Certainly does not sound to have been axed because of low sales.)

From what I understand about this, the Netrunner license belongs to Wizards of the Coast. FFG wanted to renew the license but WotC would not allow it, which was surprising and makes me think WotC is now wanting to produce that game again.

Edited by cnemmick

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If there's one thing IA and Descent have taught me, it's not to give FF any more of my money.

They do not understand how to design a game in a way that it can be easily expanded. 

Descent and Runebound should have been interchangeable.  Imperial Assault and Legion should have been interchangeable.

This is not rocket science.  This is common sense. 

Quit making everything so thoroughly disposable and maybe they could build a franchise up in a way that would sustain sales.  Games workshop divorced the miniatures from the games decades ago, and it's worked out pretty well for them.

They can stop trying to sell me things I know they won't support in a few years time.  Cause until I see real improvement I'm boycotting the company.

They have way too much of my money as it is.

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52 minutes ago, cnemmick said:

From what I understand about this, the Netrunner license belongs to Wizards of the Coast. FFG wanted to renew the license but WotC would not allow it, which was surprising and makes me think WotC is now wanting to produce that game again.

That was a hypothesis being put forth on the internet. No evidence for that actually. Truth is, we don't know what happened exactly. From this Q&A it is clear FFG's LCG's have problems with new customer acquisition. Netrunner was in decline for years. FFG went out and got new licenses such as the marvel one, Key forge and Lot5R. The Cyberpunk people, after the FFG deal ended, sold off the rights to cyberpunk card game to some new start up game company. Doubtful they could write a big check, so it isn't as if they out bid FFG. Doubtful WotC has any interest in making a card game not called Magic. Their track record with card games not named Magic is really bad. No need to hold out any hope for a new netrunner game.

We need to accept the fact that FFG is going to follow the market and the market wants flashy new games. The old games get sunseted eventually. This is sad because IA was a really good game, so was netrunner. Their "replacements" don't seem nearly as good in my opinion but hey, they are new and flashy.

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Italian fan here. 

Own everything, been a Descent supporter as well (got everything of that line as well).

Now they are telling me they are killing both lines to try to compete with GW on their field. Thing is, me and my group won't leave Warhammer/40K to try this Legion thing. We liked IA/Descent because they were story driven dungeon crawlers, somewhat different than the other products on the market. We still feel Legion as a reskinned wannabe Warhammer game, and we won't spend a dime in it cause we don't feel attracted by something we already play and give us enough satisfaction. 

I think that since Petersen left FFG things are going downhill. Best luck to them, it was a pleasure in the past years to be their customer but now I am out (and my group as well). Btw, since the 2nd edition, also XWing disappeared from the tables of the local gamestores here...

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On 8/31/2019 at 12:00 AM, thestag said:

The part that really bothers me is that we never got an Endor box and all the things that would come with it. HotE was good, and ToL was fine, but I'd trade them both for a proper Endor expansion and the last handful of iconic and screen time characters we don't have.

Yup.  We could have had Zuckuss and 4-LOM, instead we got the dumb ersatz C-3PO and R2-D2 from the worst comic I've ever had the misfortune of reading, Dr. Aphra.  Then would could have had and Endor box, but instead we got the kiddies from Rebels.  I'd take Ewoks over Lothcats any day.

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5 hours ago, Ico83 said:

Italian fan here. 

Own everything, been a Descent supporter as well (got everything of that line as well).

Now they are telling me they are killing both lines to try to compete with GW on their field. Thing is, me and my group won't leave Warhammer/40K to try this Legion thing. We liked IA/Descent because they were story driven dungeon crawlers, somewhat different than the other products on the market. We still feel Legion as a reskinned wannabe Warhammer game, and we won't spend a dime in it cause we don't feel attracted by something we already play and give us enough satisfaction. 

I think that since Petersen left FFG things are going downhill. Best luck to them, it was a pleasure in the past years to be their customer but now I am out (and my group as well). Btw, since the 2nd edition, also XWing disappeared from the tables of the local gamestores here...

I said this when Legion was in development.  Legion is not a Warhammer killer.  

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13 hours ago, Ico83 said:

Italian fan here. 

Own everything, been a Descent supporter as well (got everything of that line as well).

Now they are telling me they are killing both lines to try to compete with GW on their field. Thing is, me and my group won't leave Warhammer/40K to try this Legion thing. We liked IA/Descent because they were story driven dungeon crawlers, somewhat different than the other products on the market. We still feel Legion as a reskinned wannabe Warhammer game, and we won't spend a dime in it cause we don't feel attracted by something we already play and give us enough satisfaction. 

I think that since Petersen left FFG things are going downhill. Best luck to them, it was a pleasure in the past years to be their customer but now I am out (and my group as well). Btw, since the 2nd edition, also XWing disappeared from the tables of the local gamestores here...

Played IA since the start...been with the ups and downs and questionable content - together we have 90% of product (some just were not interesting enough - think later figures around children’s rebels television show for example). Our group planned to play and began to put resources into Star Wars: Legion when it was available. We played IA campaign/skirmish and saw the future. The application required for most recent Lord of the Rings game (which we will not purchase) being reliant on digital content, was built on the FFG experience with upgrading IA. Not fans of the GW method and some of the type of fans it attracts, SW Legion has enough difference and it would be sad to miss out confusing the two as the same. Since you already play 40k etc. then you may as well stay there...we use IA material AND SW Legion with no qualms but no longer have time and $$$ for GW product.

Continue to enjoy what you have...life is too short to be bitter about the end of IA as a physically supported and expanded game.

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8 hours ago, Rikalonius said:

I said this when Legion was in development.  Legion is not a Warhammer killer.  

It is not designed to be. SW fans can be attracted by the intellectual property rather than the false idea that Warhammer WAS/IS the only miniatures  wargame prior to it’s existence. I have seen many 40k fans stumble in allegiance but personally, as a Star Wars aficionado, there was never a real choice 😀

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I just wish that they would make the core box campaign available on the app. I am a person that has every Imperial Assault campaign and expansion, but has only played a handful of skirmish games due to the lack of players in my area and schedule conflicts. If all of the campaigns were available on the app I think that FFG would see a increase in sales.

Also we should have gotten a Tantive IV  map for skirmish.

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I  had been hoping that we would at least see some campaigns released for the existing boxes, like they did for Descent. Another campaign released by itself would not be as expensive to produce as a full box. But it sounds as though we wont be getting any.

For me, Heart of the Empire and Tyrants of Lothal they got the campaigns format right. HotE was 8 missions long instead of the previous 11 for big box campaigns Which from a practical stand point was easier to complete. ToL's 4 to 7 missions basically gave you a short and long campaign in the one box. Its a shame that we wont be getting any more. Hopefully we will be getting some more campaigns for the app at least, though app campigns are quite different to the paper ones.

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10 hours ago, GhengisharnIV said:

It is not designed to be. SW fans can be attracted by the intellectual property rather than the false idea that Warhammer WAS/IS the only miniatures  wargame prior to it’s existence. I have seen many 40k fans stumble in allegiance but personally, as a Star Wars aficionado, there was never a real choice 😀

This is the thing: Legion (and Runewars as well) is just "another" miniature wargame, while IA and Descent were filling another niche of the market. 

To see them gone to put all their efforts in Legion, to me is just sad. 

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On 9/7/2019 at 8:07 PM, GhengisharnIV said:

Children’s rebels television show

It’s only as much a children’s show as The Clone Wars is. Personally I find it the single most compelling cast and story arc in the Star Wars universe, even more so than the Skywalker saga.

 I definitely wouldn’t dismiss it out of hand. Though Tyrants of Lothal leaves something to be desired.

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21 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

 

It’s only as much a children’s show as The Clone Wars is. Personally I find it the single most compelling cast and story arc in the Star Wars universe, even more so than the Skywalker saga.

 I definitely wouldn’t dismiss it out of hand. Though Tyrants of Lothal leaves something to be desired.

Like Clone Wars, it started off very rough.   I abandoned it and didn't come back until midway through second season.  I don't think it ever rose to the Clone Wars at its peak, but it certainly got much better.  I never like Sabine or Zeb.  Hera was probably one of the best characters the brand has had, unfortunately Chopper was not.  Thrawn really helped the show by being a compelling villain that wasn't a psycho like Maul.  And I don't say that in a pejorative way.  I would watch an entire movie based around Ezra's dealings with Maul and the final climax between him and Obi Wan which was one of the best moments in all of Star Wars, even though I thought it was patently ridiculous when they brought Maul back in Clone Wars.  However, when Rebels did filler episodes, it really lacked behind the Clone Wars.  The first season of Rebels is pretty forgettable, but it does get better, although I was not at all satisfied with the Cetacea ex Machina ending to an otherwise fairly tense final episode.  

Edited by Rikalonius

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On 9/7/2019 at 11:56 AM, Radioactivepanda said:

Descent and Runebound should have been interchangeable.  Imperial Assault and Legion should have been interchangeable.

This is not rocket science.  This is common sense. 

Amen to that.  Would have helped them sell more of everything.  OR, if they aren't interchangeable make the scale completely different (like X Wing and Armada).  In fact, make it X Wing scale and you could have had actual X-Wings and Y-Wings and what not strafing AT-ATs on the ground or something. 

The weird thing is I got into IA for the campaign, so none of this should have mattered that much, but then I tried Skirmish and had so much fun with it... 

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Right, I think there was probably some line of thought of "well, if they're interchangeable we'll sell less minis"...

 

But that's so not the case.

 

IA comes with 9 stormies in the base box.  Legion comes with (and needs) a lot more, but you really need both base boxes to play either game. The rest would purely be supplementary, and a great way to give options to fans of both games.

 

And really, that's one of the few cases of where less minis would be sold.  Like, sure, maybe fans of Boba Fett would only pick one model for both games, or the people would reuse the AT-ST from IA for one in Legion...

 

But personally, I think they're losing out on crossover sales far more than they are saving by doing this.  If I had a reason to buy into Legion through cross compatability, I'd still totally invest in a new Boba and a new AT-ST.  Heck, I'd grab a new core set alone if it meant I got new Vader and Luke.  Not to mention the prospect of amazing stuff like Jyn and Krennic, or simply more options for Rebel troopers.

 

I don't know if Legion killed IA, but it did nothing to save it.  And it should have.  It really should have.

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4 hours ago, subtrendy2 said:

Right, I think there was probably some line of thought of "well, if they're interchangeable we'll sell less minis"...

 

But that's so not the case.

 

IA comes with 9 stormies in the base box.  Legion comes with (and needs) a lot more, but you really need both base boxes to play either game. The rest would purely be supplementary, and a great way to give options to fans of both games.

 

And really, that's one of the few cases of where less minis would be sold.  Like, sure, maybe fans of Boba Fett would only pick one model for both games, or the people would reuse the AT-ST from IA for one in Legion...

 

But personally, I think they're losing out on crossover sales far more than they are saving by doing this.  If I had a reason to buy into Legion through cross compatability, I'd still totally invest in a new Boba and a new AT-ST.  Heck, I'd grab a new core set alone if it meant I got new Vader and Luke.  Not to mention the prospect of amazing stuff like Jyn and Krennic, or simply more options for Rebel troopers.

 

I don't know if Legion killed IA, but it did nothing to save it.  And it should have.  It really should have.

I've bought many Legion boxes, and I'm going to paint them and base them on IA thickness bases.  In most cases their size is hardly noticeable, especially against more recent IA offerings.  I guess I can see it for people who, for some strange reason, like the characters from Rogue One, but I don't, so I don't need any cards for them. 

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I find it pretty lame if some people constantly have to sneak in suggestions into their comments that people are dumb, strange or other negative stuff because they might like something the author of the comment does not. It looks weak and insecure, because it comes across like a very strong need to constantly self-validate one's opinions.

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