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Andrew Navaro Q&A

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As I said above, I do think that the stress placed on physical content in the Q&A and elsewhere means we have chance of more app things.  The HotE large expansion and another one or two raid mode maps the use tiles from the smaller expansions is my guess.

Also sad about no Endor, but other than that this game has pretty much everything you need from the original trilogy and some extras from rebels and a little before.

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Gallanteer said:

Partially Hasbro but the board game question seems unlikely because Outer Rim and Rebellion exists.

Well, they also called Rebellion a complete game awhile back.  Outer Rim is still a fair point though.  Could be a "the fewer the better" situation.

5 hours ago, Mandelore of the Rings said:

Will prices go up?  Should I get everything I don't have yet?

The opposite may happen first.  Clearance prices for stores not getting anymore stock.  That said, I made the snap decision to get all the Lothal stuff yesterday rather than risk it.

Edited by Uninvited Guest

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18 hours ago, Gallanteer said:

Partially Hasbro but the board game question seems unlikely because Outer Rim and Rebellion exists.

More likely thrown under the bus to sell Legion rubbish.

Expect all remaining IA stock prices to go through the roof.

Thanks for nothing FFG. 

This, Netrunner and Battlestar all lost this year. I'm getting a bit disillusioned with them at the moment.....

....it'll probably pass.

It's passed..... 😁

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5 hours ago, Gallanteer said:

He only mentioned physical content.

I just hope they keep reprinting stuff for now - not got everything yet.

I asked several times about a community editor for the app and a community hub but it was never asked.

I'm holding out hope on reprints--it's a way that we can still build the communities for campaign and skirmish.

I would wager that FFG are simply clearing their queue on any further digital content, but maybe they're still developing.

I think the best we can hope for on the editor-front would be an editor that was community developed program to which the powers that be simply turned blind eyes.

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It really is to bad we didn't get an Endor box. For some reason just that one last small box would have given so much closure on this game.

But I did really enjoy playing it during its life time, got a ton of use out of the campaign and a fair amount out of Skirmish. I had it on the table for the Raid mode this past weekend for the first time in months and enjoyed myself with friends. I will definitely continue to play the app content as long as they make it.

I am curious with both Descent and IA done physically, and now on the dwindling end of app content, what will take that models place? That style of dungeon crawler has done really well for them. Have to think something else is on the horizon. Unless that is LOTR? But LOTR feels more like a MOM 2nd edition game than IA or Descent.

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3 hours ago, FrogTrigger said:

I am curious with both Descent and IA done physically, and now on the dwindling end of app content, what will take that models place?

I just hope it isn’t Doom.  I’d love to see more for that, but my wallet and shelf space don’t want it going the way of the earlier two.  Getting all the IA stuff was not cheap!

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39 minutes ago, Majushi said:

The “business reasons” are not Hasbro licensing issues (as evidenced by Outer Rim and Rebellion).

FFG don’t want Legion to have to compete with IA, and tanked IA for Legion.

Thanks for nothing FFG

To be fair, you have to look at the development resources that go into making anything for Imperial Assault vs Destiny, Xwing, and Legion.

Every release for IA requires at the very least; command cards, a skirmish and campaign map, a skirmish and campaign scenario,deployment cards for campaign and/or skirmish units. Larger releases required double-sided maps board, item cards, a short or long campaign, etc. 

Designing all of that takes way more time and resources from the dev and art team than any other Star Wars product they make. So, even though I don't like the choice, I get how and why they arrived at it.

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25 minutes ago, Zcurator said:

To be fair, you have to look at the development resources that go into making anything for Imperial Assault vs Destiny, Xwing, and Legion.

Every release for IA requires at the very least; command cards, a skirmish and campaign map, a skirmish and campaign scenario,deployment cards for campaign and/or skirmish units. Larger releases required double-sided maps board, item cards, a short or long campaign, etc. 

Designing all of that takes way more time and resources from the dev and art team than any other Star Wars product they make. So, even though I don't like the choice, I get how and why they arrived at it.

and it is easier to focus on digital app content, as it is probably controlled by a small development team

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1 hour ago, Zcurator said:

To be fair, you have to look at the development resources that go into making anything for Imperial Assault vs Destiny, Xwing, and Legion.

Every release for IA requires at the very least; command cards, a skirmish and campaign map, a skirmish and campaign scenario,deployment cards for campaign and/or skirmish units. Larger releases required double-sided maps board, item cards, a short or long campaign, etc. 

Designing all of that takes way more time and resources from the dev and art team than any other Star Wars product they make. So, even though I don't like the choice, I get how and why they arrived at it.

Whilst I also understand that, Legion will never be able to replicate the story campaign mode. FFG are losing money from me because of it as I have no interest in Legion whatsoever.

However, my wallet is taking a hit because of the new Armada stuff, new stuff if XW and eventually Outer Rim expansions.

Its just a shame they've messed up the best SW ground combat game they ever produced. Legion is just a 40k competitor, it's not unique.

Edited by Gallanteer

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In response to some comments above:

The silence part of this was something I’d forgotten.  It did suck a lot.

If Legion is the “business reason,” that means there is always a chance they might finish us off with an Endor box one day after lots of people have spent lots of money on Legion.  Alternatively, if Legion doesn’t make them the kind of profits they hope for, perhaps they would return to IA.  My guess would be in the form of a second edition.

For now, I’m happy just painting my figures, playing and hoping for more app things.

As a slight aside, it does feel like FFGs has a dungeon-crawling hole in their line up now.

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7 hours ago, Zcurator said:

To be fair, you have to look at the development resources that go into making anything for Imperial Assault vs Destiny, Xwing, and Legion.

Every release for IA requires at the very least; command cards, a skirmish and campaign map, a skirmish and campaign scenario,deployment cards for campaign and/or skirmish units. Larger releases required double-sided maps board, item cards, a short or long campaign, etc. 

Designing all of that takes way more time and resources from the dev and art team than any other Star Wars product they make. So, even though I don't like the choice, I get how and why they arrived at it.

100% true.  Development of this game seems pretty resource hungry.  Add to all of that the short timetable required for new content in the competitive skirmish side of the game... I imagine you need huge sales numbers to offset the costs of those numbers.

Edited by Uninvited Guest

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6 hours ago, Uninvited Guest said:

100% true.  Development of this game seems pretty resource hungry.  Add to all of that the short timetable required for new content in the competitive skirmish side of the game... I imagine you need huge sales numbers to offset the costs of those numbers.

Exactly. In addition, more content also means more things have to be approved by the licencors. If you have ever had to deal with licencors, then you know some can be a royal PIA, as they tend to drag on approvals and their response times can be painful to endure while the final product is seemingly ready for print.

Sending a Legion unit or Xwing ship off for approval takes much less time and leads to much less hassle than having to send an entire Imperial Assault Endor set out for approval.

I think the primary "business reason" was due to the fact that Imperial Assault holds a lot of SKUs that FFG can't sell direct from their site. 

13 hours ago, Majushi said:

Undoubtedly that is the case.

what is not acceptable is the long silence with no clarification until Navarro is forced into a position to answer.

the game is dead. There may be app content coming.

but the communication breakdown is serious.

I used to think this way.

But ... after getting to know people in the distribution side of the industry ... I get it.

FFG is playing it smart as a business by waiting for a product to sell out at the distribution level before making any formal announcement about the game being "dead". They need distributors to trust that they won't leave them hanging with excess stock, otherwise distributors may not reorder current and future FFG product in large orders. Retailers on the other hand are okay with finding out the news when customers do, because it tends to create a "get it before its gone" mentality, which leads to sells and frees up space for new product.

Andrew's silence could have something to do with the contract FFG has between Lucas/Dis. I wouldn't be surprised if he had to consult with Disney to find out what he could say prior to the AMA.

Edited by Zcurator

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59 minutes ago, Zcurator said:

FFG is playing it smart as a business by waiting for a product to sell out at the distribution level before making any formal announcement about the game being "dead". They need distributors to trust that they won't leave them hanging with excess stock, otherwise distributors may not reorder current and future FFG product in large orders. Retailers on the other hand are okay with finding out the news when customers do, because it tends to create a "get it before its gone" mentality, which leads to sells and frees up space for new product.

Andrew's silence could have something to do with the contract FFG has between Lucas/Dis. I wouldn't be surprised if he had to consult with Disney to find out what he could say prior to the AMA.

Yes, much of that is logical and probably true.

What they fail to realise is that there is no sales (for their retailers) without customers. And when the customers ask questions and hear nothing back the sales disappear. Retailers are left with stock they can't shift, because the player base already see the writing on the wall.

New players ask existing players what the status of the game is, and we honestly answer we have no idea and suspect it is dead. And new players go elsewhere for their fix.

A little communication is all we asked for.

And we got nothing. (until the AMA forced his hand)

Edited by Majushi

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4 minutes ago, Majushi said:

Yes, much of that is logical and probably true.

What they fail to realise is that there is no sales (for their retailers) without customers. And when the customers ask questions and hear nothing back the sales disappear. Retailers are left with stock they can't shift, because the player base already see the writing on the wall.

New players ask existing players what the status of the game is, and we honestly answer we have no idea and suspect it is dead. And new players go elsewhere for their fix.

A little communication is all we asked for.

And we got nothing. (until the AMA forced his hand)

Fair enough.

I would be curious to see the numbers. I have a feeling that newer fans of Star Wars and board games in general don't care if the game is dead or not. They will do their research by watching video tutorials and reviews, then make the dive if they like what they see. A new fan of the game would probably argue that they feel overwhelmed by the amount of content. I have never personally made my choice to dive into a product based on whether it is currently dead at the time I found myself interested in it.

That's a bold assumption to make about them "failing to realize." I am pretty confident that their marketing and sales reps weighed that reason along with many other reasons this community isn't privy to against one another, before deciding on the fate of Imperial Assault.

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9 minutes ago, Zcurator said:

That's a bold assumption to make about them "failing to realize." I am pretty confident that their marketing and sales reps weighed that reason along with many other reasons this community isn't privy to against one another, before deciding on the fate of Imperial Assault.

Yes, you're right. Probably what I mean is that it "appears that they fail to realise". (we're not really privy to their inner workings)

To counterpoint the second part, IF they deliberately left their player base in the dark that's pretty bad behaviour don't you think? Stringing people along for their money...

IA is really in a special situation when it comes to player participation. The two game modes lend themselves to entirely different playerbases.

Skirmish need supported events, with new content to keep the meta churning. They also need prize support (which included card design... wonder what the latest world champ was promised on that front...)

Campaign needs nothing beyond the core box. Once those disappear, sales of any expansion content will plummet (unless there are completionists out there who somehow already failed to get an expansion)

Edited by Majushi

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4 minutes ago, Majushi said:

Yes, you're right. Probably what I mean is that it "appears that they fail to realise". (we're not really privy to their inner workings)

To counterpoint the second part, IF they deliberately left their player base in the dark that's pretty bad behaviour don't you think? Stringing people along for their money...

IA is really in a special situation when it comes to player participation. The two game modes lend themselves to entirely different playerbases.

Skirmish need supported events, with new content to keep the meta churning. They also need prize support (which included card design... wonder what the latest world champ was promised on that front...)

Campaign needs nothing beyond the core box. Once those disappear, sales of any expansion content will plummet (unless there are completionists out there who somehow already failed to get an expansion)

All fair points. And I agree to some extent.

"String people along for their money..."
I could see Disney encouraging this for sure and not allowing FFG to provide any form of response to the community.

The more I think about it, the more I am starting to wonder if this wasn't on FFG. It's very possible Disney wasn't liking the returns from Imperial Assault and told FFG they wouldn't approve anymore physical content, feeling that the FFG team's resources would lead to greater returns if they were focused on other Star Wars product lines. Tyrants of Lothal might have been FFG's last chance to try and bring in younger/newer players. And when sales continued to show that only veteran IA customers were the only ones buying the product, Disney and FFG agreed that they should search for other sources of profit.

Licensing is fun!

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Skirmish was an add on from the very start. They've said in numerous development interviews that they stumbled upon skirmish during the final days of development and just last minute pitched the idea and it got approved.

That kind of doomed it from the start.. because the game was never designed around skirmish. So i can understand the discontinued OP from that perspective.

I just find it to be a let down from the campaign side of things, as I believe there was still stories to tell with great un tapped content. 

It's like The Dance by Garth Brooks, would we go through it again knowing the outcome? Ya I would, it was a **** of a ride.

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On 9/1/2019 at 5:41 PM, Zcurator said:

I think the primary "business reason" was due to the fact that Imperial Assault holds a lot of SKUs that FFG can't sell direct from their site. 

There's this. (Keep in mind FFG pulled selling IA off their website sometime in 2016, not too long after IA and expansions were released. This is before Lucasfilm was bought by Disney.) And there's the fact that when they first announced the app right before Christmas 2017, Imperial Assault sold like hotcakes, leading Friendly Local Game Stores to immediately stock up and display the game for over a year. 

I'm convinced FFG wants to make IA because it will sell. Cooperative gaming has been exceptionally popular for newer board gamers. There is no other cooperative Star Wars strategy game. But "business reasons" will prevent them from making IA because they can't make money for IA.

FFG is plenty happy with Legion (and they should be). But there's no cooperative aspect or story in Legion. That Andrew specifically answered the question about making Legion packs have IA content -- when they could have ignored that question, just like they ignored other specific questions about IA -- shows that they recognize that IA is a difference experience than Legion. That they can't do that for the same "business reasons" doesn't mean they're favoring Legion over IA; it means they're forced to leave IA behind.

Edited by cnemmick

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On 9/1/2019 at 4:42 PM, Gallanteer said:

I have no interest in Legion whatsoever.

yup.

 

On 9/1/2019 at 4:42 PM, Gallanteer said:

they've messed up the best SW ground combat game they ever produced. Legion is just a 40k competitor, it's not unique.

Yup.  Totally not interested in a big 40k time game or whatever.  Lots of our expat friends were happy to play Skirmish but would never play Legion (even if I had it).  FFG will get less of a player base (although they may be quite enthusiastic, and buy more than a casual player).

 

12 hours ago, cnemmick said:

That Andrew specifically answered the question about making Legion packs have IA content -- when they could have ignored that question

Kind of cool, since that was my question (although others asked it too I think).  But sad because it is a huge missed opportunity.  Heck, they could of even had US vote for the cards to include in the Legion packs and we (the community) would have been happy to do the work for them.  Totally missed opportunity there.

 

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I have to wonder if Business reasons has to do with Disney stopping them from releasing Story-line based content, I noticed they haven't printed any new adventures for the Star wars RPG since 2017.

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