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FFG's AMA with Andrew Navaro

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3 hours ago, Straangeer said:

Me too.

But I also would like a joint effort when the descent rule masters put their heads toghether and just like as the CRRG create a rebalance for monsters hero skills overlord card etc...

I hope for that even more than the missing 12 heroes.

A full rebalance is a huge endeavor.

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1 hour ago, Zaltyre said:

A full rebalance is a huge endeavor.

Although  one upside of the game being locked down with no new stuff is there's no new stuff (other than our own :) ) that could break any re-balancing.

 

It might not be possible to fully balance the game as there are so many options- if you think of all the heroes, enemies, cards and other choices even though there will be a lot of overlap there must be quite a big number of possible combinations/choices, then there's all the factors like Terrain and conditions. Plus player experience/skill/playstyle is a factor - two chess players at different skill levels wouldn't be a balanced game for example- so it's a case of making it as balanced as it can be / as we can get it to be and obviously focusing on any really big imbalances.

 

As we play test and develop our own creations we'll probably get to understand game balance a bit better, it's certainly something I'm interested in as it affects most aspects (and the most important ones) for designing content.

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On 8/31/2019 at 6:06 AM, Straangeer said:

Me too.

But I also would like a joint effort when the descent rule masters put their heads toghether and just like as the CRRG create a rebalance for monsters hero skills overlord card etc...

I hope for that even more than the missing 12 heroes.

I haven't coordinated with everyone in the community, but I suggest you check out the balance patch I made here on the forums. The document you'll find there was an attempt to do just what you say (full tweak/rebalance of all aspects of the game - classes/heroes/monsters/overlord cards/items/etc.). Comments and playtesting feedback are welcome to make it the best it can be.

Edited by Charmy

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On 8/30/2019 at 7:59 PM, Jubez187 said:

The whole "most ambitious" thing is making me think big (obviously). So in my mind, i'm just taking Runebound and Descent and smashing it together.

Asmodee buys Adam Poots Games LLC, merges the team with FFG, and they put out a multigenerational cooperative campaign game, Kingdom Death: Terrinoth

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3 hours ago, kris40k said:

Asmodee buys Adam Poots Games LLC, merges the team with FFG, and they put out a multigenerational cooperative campaign game, Kingdom Death: Terrinoth

Nooo. I love some aspects of KD (for me only on the minis side) - I own a lonely tree as it was perfect (I had been looking for a 'chained oak' (Staffordshire legend) suited tabletop piece) but wouldn't want it mixed with Descent.

 

Not that I can say I'd dislike the game- I never tried it purely because of other focuses with my games collection.

 

Also whilst I have no issue with KD's choice to go quite 'adult' with its designs in various obvious ways, it's not quite the style I go for.

Edited by Watercolour Dragon

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Well at least we have closure.  No more wondering if they're ever going to do the right thing.  

This really sucks because I finally bought all the Imperial Assault stuff after they added new app campaigns for both properties last year.  Now both lines are officially cancelled.

Guess it's back to boycotting FF, and wishing I hadn't spent as much as I had on both games.

Screw this company.

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2 hours ago, Radioactivepanda said:

Well at least we have closure.  No more wondering if they're ever going to do the right thing.  

This really sucks because I finally bought all the Imperial Assault stuff after they added new app campaigns for both properties last year.  Now both lines are officially cancelled.

Guess it's back to boycotting FF, and wishing I hadn't spent as much as I had on both games.

Screw this company.

I know it's frustrating- I really wanted them to complete 2e and it was a bit low (and perhaps lazy) to put a new (unused) character on the new card deck hinting at new stuff who's not now even going to be in the game (at least not the current version)

but

1. he didn't say Descent 2e is actually done with, just getting no more expansions (I've not been following IA so don't know on that) - it could just be that this is underlined as a completed line (to FFG) product-wise, it still sells so they may not be retiring it just yet

2. even when they stop making a game or stop adding to it you can still enjoy what you do have and people can still buy it and enjoy it for as long as it's available- Descent's still awesome for anyone who's not tried it or already enjoys it!

3. his point was valid that the games market's grown a lot- there is a limit to what will sell in terms of expansions (remember each new expansion makes the entry cost to new players wanting 'a complete set' higher too)

4. yes 3 does have the caveat FFG may sometimes fail to get and keep enough momentum for new games - and fail to fuel the enthusiasm for existing/older ones, they can drop the ball with good product, marketing and market reach could perhaps improve

5. discontinued lines still have value both play wise and literally (out of print games can get quite pricey second hand, not just FFG, and can be near-impossible to get, suggesting people cherish and hang on to them)

6. on that note unfortunately it's the way of games that many do and will go out of print- some make a comeback- but think of the logic- it's different  to some products like food in that unless you have to replace it or want a mint new copy it's a one-off purchase, if you looked at all the games ever historically I reckon a lot of them would no longer be on sale or still available but with the same range (no longer having new content)

7. fans and communities keep games alive, often filling in the gaps, solving any gameplay flaws and adding their own stuff, but mostly by just continuing to play them and enjoy them

8. we're obsessed with expansions, and it's understandable for themes/games we love- think most games had 'is there more' questions in the AMA, but expansions aren't essential to enjoy games, they just give us more to play with - nice, but not vital

9. yes 8 too has a caveat- FFG have been bad at finishing (rounding off/completing) lines before moving on to new ones, but some of this will likely relate to point 3, the more expansions the more chance you hit a point when only the biggest fans are buying them, or worse case scenario actually start losing money on the line or the effect of diminishing returns kicks in but also if you're working on a later-lifecycle line you're using resources you can't then use for the new line- Andrew made the valid point they can't do everything they'd like to with all their games.

10. movie series can get cancelled, tv dramas etc etc, but it doesn't mean you can't enjoy what was created- same thing the lack of conclusion can be annoying but everything creative that's in the pipeline's never guaranteed- even if it's non-commercial many things can stop creative projects being realized, the albums that never got finished/released and so on- it's a shame but some awesome things just don't happen

11. we don't know that there's no more app content planned (yet, again don't know about IA), what the new game is or what the future will bring (abandoned Terrinoth games have had unexpected returns in the past)

12. so enjoy what we do have and should it inspire you what we do get in the future, things end or evolve and that can be annoying, but if the garden's full there's no room for anything new to be planted or grow....

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11a. IA and Descent were cut from the same cloth so to speak, as the new Terrinoth project is Descent-related and as Terrinoth's still alive and well in FFG's development minds- when many fans were wrongly assuming the limited news meant both were dead- so maybe there's also something to follow on from IA as they've both been 'closed' close together in time....

 

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If the game was still a bit alive, at least, they would answer rules questions, but they don't from 2 years maybe now so the team is about on something else

Edited by rugal

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11 minutes ago, TXCanuck said:

So based on the AMA session, the door is not closed to new content on the RTL app, correct?

They did not specifically address the issue as to whether or not there would be more digital content for RTL.

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I wouldn't call them out as "not doing the right thing."

I'm a massive Descent fan. I'm someone who owns every physical thing you could buy for this game then put in in a fishing tackle box recommended by this very forum just to speed up setup/tear down.

I know you may be sad that they aren't adding those last 12 but we all know there is a LOT of content in Descent 2nd. There are so many characters that haven't seen the table yet and I play with new people all the time (I swear to Valyndra if someone picks Trenloe - Champion again...) and tons of combinations I've never seen that will just pop out. "Oh you are running that monster on this mission? Well **** that's different, lets rock." Some missions I still haven't run, there are class combinations I've never seen, or I'll see an overlord who goes full Unkindness and then "oh god the birds" as the table laughs.

We love this game and there is a LOT for us to toy with here, and way too much for most others to ever get through.

With what Andrew said about the next big Descent project, and the existence of the last expansion being something that was probably a bit bigger, then play tested, then partially released (there are other threads of some people talking about how they created the new classes) I think it's fair to say this was a decision along the lines of "OK hold up, let's just stop with this expansion and go hard on this new Descent idea."

I think it's going to be awesome. If it isn't... well... we have one heck of a tool box to play with in Descent 2nd.

Edit: Grammar edits.

Edited by Carbini

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@Carbini - totally agree and I think you're right on the theory

 

" With what Andrew said about the next big Descent project, and the existence of the last expansion being something that was probably a bit bigger, then play tested, then partially released (there are other threads of some people talking about how they created the new classes) I think it's fair to say this was a decision along the lines of "OK hold up, let's just stop with this expansion and go hard on this new Descent idea."  "

 

I too think there was something planned- and re my slight niggle about the now-irrelevant LL box art possibly still planned at the time of LL's release- but they took a decision as you say- let's focus on the new project (after all releasing new D2e when being on the verge of something related could be kind of foolish- you could almost have the product competing with itself!)

 

There's also 'the not quite D3e' aspect- maybe the new thing doesn't actually end D2e, it may not even fully replace or eliminate it, as we now know it's not a third edition exactly, it could be something that works with/alongside it or that takes the same idea down a new path.

 

It's also possible that they got quite excited for the ideas that went alongside what became 'Lost Legends' and maybe also their Terrinoth exploring for the Genesys sourcebook and thought hey, we were going to use these ideas for a Descent 2e expansion- but we could do something way more awesome with them for the new idea, so we'll drop these ideas from D2e and move them over to the new project.

 

For all we know the twelve heroes could be in the new project, aha, see what you did there :) , although maybe it's not quite a D3e also because of avoiding porting all those heroes etc over for a second time (pros and cons to this as they're familiar to us and clearly we're attached to them but 'hey, buy these for a third, or even fifth time' may not sit too well- unless they're better sculpts - like I've said D2e's been hit and miss on figure sculpts, some really good, some rather poor), so we may get something quite new and fresh- maybe with mostly or solely new characters/monsters. Whatever choice they've made in this respect will be a difficult call- bring over old characters or not and if so how and how many- but as recent Genesys posts exploring all the characters and entities Terrinoth/Mennara gives us to play with there are LOTS, it would be difficult- especially commercially- for one game range to have them all (the great thing about the RPG side of things is it can have them all as they're the paintbox/toolkit GM's pick from to paint on the canvas of their game sessions! But for actual physical product having all of them is somewhat out of bounds. Interestingly and excitingly an app could bring to the gaming table more than the physical product and expansions was able to- it has been implied it's a deep-dive into the lore, so have the tech possibilities been used to maximize the Terrinoth possibilities I wonder?)

 

Still excited to find out what it is...

Edited by Watercolour Dragon
Grammar perfectionism, probably still missed something :) Like Carbini it seems I proofread my posts *smiles*

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9 hours ago, Watercolour Dragon said:

Still excited to find out what it is...

Probably, just a new app 😞 They are specializing in solo pc games 😞

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Given the main competitor to Descent and Imperial assault is Gloomhaven which happens to be the #1 rated game of all time. I would say that the new project is probably heavily inspired by Gloomhaven with FFG introducing variants and twists so their version is unique and appeals to the customers. Can you imagine Gloomhaven with the production quality of FFG? I would buy 3rd edition twice if that is what it was.

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On 9/12/2019 at 6:54 PM, Maverick87 said:

Given the main competitor to Descent and Imperial assault is Gloomhaven which happens to be the #1 rated game of all time. I would say that the new project is probably heavily inspired by Gloomhaven with FFG introducing variants and twists so their version is unique and appeals to the customers. Can you imagine Gloomhaven with the production quality of FFG? I would buy 3rd edition twice if that is what it was.

Not to start  GH vs D2e argument, but I'm 100% okay with GH being what it is and Descent being what it is. The "kill em all" aspect of GH works because the card-play is so in-depth, but I enjoy D2e's "don't kill em all! run around and turn statues the right way so you can open a door!" style of gameplay. Although GH edges out in actual combat, D2e wins out in the grand scope of fantasy adventure IMHO.

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My guess would be from the way they talked about it is that it's something new and potentially groundbreaking in game design terms rather than a case of let's-do-a Gloomhaven but as has been said with a similar level of appeal to players (I'm sure many people will have both games eventually anyway), quite possibly something really innovative, maybe even with some of this innovation being a computer game-board game hybrid so something a bit deeper than an app (I've always thought that could be awesome for a game, although obviously I'd still want the game to exist outside of this and for that to just be one of the different ways you can play it, I like board / card games to be tech free most of the time, idea-wise it's not a purely Descent idea but I've been thinking for a while with the apps situation I don't think anybody's done something that fully fuses the two mediums yet, I've been thinking it's got to happen eventually and could be interesting).

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16 minutes ago, Lightningclaw said:

If it says Descent on the box, I’ll probably buy it.

Whatever it is I hope it includes an OL role in some way.

Me also even if it's now an option rather than designed-in as the norm. Would be smart to no longer have it as the default- it has some flaws which not all players enjoy- but not to remove it altogether.

 

The best for me would be something with several different ways you can play the game (solo, co op etc) developing the flexibility the current game has even further. I still stick with my thinking that there remains the potential to have a battle version of the game too that could replace some of the currently retired Terrinoth games- you'd just need that flexibility designed into the kit. One of the reasons I'm excited for the new game is just the finding out which of many things FFG could do with the lore they have done. There are loads of possibilities and plenty of potential for them to surprise us, there's a lot riding on it too reputation wise, so hopefully they're working on something that does justice to all that potential.

 

I've also always thought what could be an interesting option is a team setup option where there's a heroes and villains side (maybe we could think about that for D2e now we have so many characters and creatures to play with!) rather than the 1 vs 4 overlord vs heroes- so a sort of rival co op with the two opposing sides each working together.

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