What If- First Order were next

[EVIL INC 207]

Youve stated your facts. they are facts that I agree with. I stated facts that you dont want to hear so you keep repeating your facts that we agree with ignoring the ones you dont like.

fact #1- we should not look for anything to hit the shelves for at least 2 years.  We agree. As a matter of fact, we brought that fact up first.

fact #2 - Those factions will be released. The only things stopping it would be loss of licence, game going oop, company breakdown. This is the one you dont want to hear.

fact #3 -there are threads on the clone wars  era and a create new thread button where you can start a thread on that era if you can not find any. This is a fact that you choose to ignore.

fact #4 - going into a thread with the pure intent to disrupt and derail it in a non productive manner because you do not like the topic they are discussing (as you are doing) it the very definition of trolling.A fact you do not want to hear. 

You said all you wanted to do was state your facts. You did so, we agreed. Your stated task here is done. Let those who wish to have the discussion... have it. They are not hurting you and you will never have to read it if you dont click. Now you know what the thread is and that it does not concern you in that it is a topic you dont want to productively participate in), you have no need to click on it

[R3dReVenge 441]

6 minutes ago, EVIL INC said:

Youve stated your facts. they are facts that I agree with. I stated facts that you dont want to hear so you keep repeating your facts that we agree with ignoring the ones you dont like.

fact #1- we should not look for anything to hit the shelves for at least 2 years.  We agree. As a matter of fact, we brought that fact up first.

fact #2 - Those factions will be released. The only things stopping it would be loss of licence, game going oop, company breakdown. This is the one you dont want to hear.

fact #3 -there are threads on the clone wars  era and a create new thread button where you can start a thread on that era if you can not find any. This is a fact that you choose to ignore.

fact #4 - going into a thread with the pure intent to disrupt and derail it in a non productive manner because you do not like the topic they are discussing (as you are doing) it the very definition of trolling.A fact you do not want to hear. 

You said all you wanted to do was state your facts. You did so, we agreed. Your stated task here is done. Let those who wish to have the discussion... have it. They are not hurting you and you will never have to read it if you dont click. Now you know what the thread is and that it does not concern you in that it is a topic you dont want to productively participate in), you have no need to click on it

Can you cite me Fact #2? Where are you reading this? 

Fact #3 I'm well aware. I'm not here to discuss CW stuff (the other guy brought up specifics). I just asked about the in game differences between how a FO trooper unit would act/play out vs a stormtrooper unit. I was hoping for a creative discussion, but gotten none (I've stated this question my last few posts).

 

Example: Stormtroopers cost X points, Red Defence, White attack, Attack surge, 1 Hp, 1 Courage, precise. FO troopers...

 

Fact #4 (see my above statement). 

 

Edited August 22, 2019 by R3dReVenge

[devin.pike.1989 1,546]

24 minutes ago, R3dReVenge said:

That's just Fin wearing a mask....

Ok dude.  I think I'm done with you and your trolling.   Adios!

[EVIL INC 207]

Fact #2 = common sense.

Fact #3,4= your doing nothing more than trying to start an argument with the intent to derail the thread.

.

[R3dReVenge 441]

1 minute ago, EVIL INC said:

Fact #2 = common sense.

Fact #3,4= your doing nothing more than trying to start an argument with the intent to derail the thread.

.

That's not a fact. That's what you feel/want. Show me a source. 

As I've shown multiple times, I want to engage in discussion about point costs. Once again, you don't want to discuss these things (not my problem).

Edited August 22, 2019 by R3dReVenge

[EVIL INC 207]

More trolling. We are not talking about points costs. We are talking about broad overview ideas. Spitballing so to speak and your coming in with the intent to derail it. 

if you actually want to engage in a discussion about points costs instead of what we are talking about, start a thread because that topic is not relevant here as you are aware.

[R3dReVenge 441]

9 minutes ago, EVIL INC said:

More trolling. We are not talking about points costs. We are talking about broad overview ideas. Spitballing so to speak and your coming in with the intent to derail it. 

if you actually want to engage in a discussion about points costs instead of what we are talking about, start a thread because that topic is not relevant here as you are aware.

All because you want to discuss broad overview ideas, that doesn't mean we all want to (there are several of threads just like this one already discussing broad ideas). Read the title of the thread. "What If First Order were next" To me that means you want to discuss FO and specific things about the faction. 

There is no reason to start another FO thread about point costs. Just like there was no need to start this thread when we have another thread just like it. 

Edited August 22, 2019 by R3dReVenge

[EVIL INC 207]

So the reason you are trolling and trying to disrupt our discussion is because your having a little temper tantrum over us not doing necromancy on threads pages back. Using the report function now.

 

[lunitic501 302]

I think I'm just going to keep posting this everytime 2 people turn 1 of these threads into another pointless argument.

[devin.pike.1989 1,546]

Getting back on topic...  I really think that fo troopers would have something to highlight their fanaticism.

[R3dReVenge 441]

1 hour ago, EVIL INC said:

So the reason you are trolling and trying to disrupt our discussion is because your having a little temper tantrum over us not doing necromancy on threads pages back. Using the report function now.

 

Lord... You are really upset because someone has different views than you? 

Back on track:

 

FO troopers: 55 points 4 minis.

+ Red Defense

+ White Attack

+ Surge Attack

+ Special rule (defending unit rerolls 1 successful saving throw.

[EVIL INC 207]

Your that upset because we want to stay on topic? lets see if you can get back on topic and stop trolling.

......

Yes, FO troopers. stats and points. points are irrelevant though as by the time it comes out, there is likely going to be a different points and rules set. Something that could make them different could be such things as the inclusion of a specialized close combat weapon for the leader

There is a decent selection of commanders and the imperial guard are also a lot different from the ones in the originals.

[Alpha17 2,853]

22 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Okay then.  As of March this year, when the Clone Wars starter was announced, were the Rebel and Empire Factions “fleshed out”?   Was there multiple units for EVERY rank?   

I think they were. Even if not in actual release, announcements were made the occupier came out in April if I recall.   

So, with what we are getting for the clone wars so far, they are on a pretty good track to being fleshed out by next March, not for an actual physical new release, but announcement for an upcoming one?  Certainly.  

There is probably more done for the clone wars, planned unit wise, than there was for the original trilogy content at a similar point of that products release.    

No, by March I very, very much doubt the Clone factions will have multiple options for every rank/slot out or even annouced.  We'll be lucky to even have the initial slots filled by then, even if just through announced units.  Assuming they take just as long as they did with the GCW units to expand (which is incredibly unrealistic, as even if they go 100% Clone Wars, they're wasting several months at the end of this year), it took them 18 months to go from release of the GCW (March 2018) units to TCW units (September 2019).  That means that the earliest the ST units would be released would be March/April of 2021, with a possible announcement as early as GenCon of next year.  And again, that assumes they are able to fill in the Clone Wars factions in the same amount of time as they did the GCW units, which is highly unlikely.

17 hours ago, devin.pike.1989 said:

Then your kids are in the minority.  I don't say this to be rude.  I just have been too involved with kids and volunteering for kid events that I know that it is completely false to believe that the sequals have been "especially" disliked by kids.

Not saying that this is particularly accurate, but it's hardly a unique opinion.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-07/star-wars-is-struggling-to-win-over-the-marvel-generation

15 hours ago, devin.pike.1989 said:

What distinguishes a clone trooper from a stormtrooper?

Color, armor, training, rifle, helmet, skill, context... everything besides that they're wearing armor, I guess.

13 hours ago, devin.pike.1989 said:

Color cape mask?  Where do you see color or a cape on a clone trooper?as for Rebel fighter vs resistance fighter, they wear totally different headgear.  Rebels wear a soft cap with a sort of armored ring, resistance wears a fully enclosed helmet with a yellow tinted visor that flips up out of the way.  They carry very different looking rifles and they have an actual uniform appearance as opposed to the hodge-podge of uniforms worn by the rebel trooper.

Now tell me a phase 1 clone trooper isnt just a stormtrooper with a different helmet and rifle...

A Phase I clone isn't "just a stormtrooper with a different helmet and rifle."  Besides appearance, which is quite noticeable, the training and equipment differences is extremely telling.  In gameplay, that means they have far different stats than a stormtrooper.  How would Resistance soldiers differ from their Rebel counterparts?  Or First Order from the Empire?  Unless you make them uncanonically powerful, they really wouldn't be all that different. 

[lunitic501 302]

20 minutes ago, Alpha17 said:

How would Resistance soldiers differ from their Rebel counterparts?  Or First Order from the Empire?  Unless you make them uncanonically powerful, they really wouldn't be all that different. 

Honestly I think ST basic infantry will be pretty similar stat wise to OT basic infantry. Where they will differ I think is keywords, what keyword would FO troopers get instead of precise? Something that possibly helps with the rally step/suppression because of there fanatical nature/indoctrination?

[R3dReVenge 441]

2 hours ago, Alpha17 said:

No, by March I very, very much doubt the Clone factions will have multiple options for every rank/slot out or even annouced.  We'll be lucky to even have the initial slots filled by then, even if just through announced units.  Assuming they take just as long as they did with the GCW units to expand (which is incredibly unrealistic, as even if they go 100% Clone Wars, they're wasting several months at the end of this year), it took them 18 months to go from release of the GCW (March 2018) units to TCW units (September 2019).  That means that the earliest the ST units would be released would be March/April of 2021, with a possible announcement as early as GenCon of next year.  And again, that assumes they are able to fill in the Clone Wars factions in the same amount of time as they did the GCW units, which is highly unlikely.

Not saying that this is particularly accurate, but it's hardly a unique opinion.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-07/star-wars-is-struggling-to-win-over-the-marvel-generation

Color, armor, training, rifle, helmet, skill, context... everything besides that they're wearing armor, I guess.

A Phase I clone isn't "just a stormtrooper with a different helmet and rifle."  Besides appearance, which is quite noticeable, the training and equipment differences is extremely telling.  In gameplay, that means they have far different stats than a stormtrooper.  How would Resistance soldiers differ from their Rebel counterparts?  Or First Order from the Empire?  Unless you make them uncanonically powerful, they really wouldn't be all that different. 

I'm not surprised by that article. I found myself quite bored during the TLJ. I wasn't surprised to find my son dozing off. 

I'm always surprised when someone mentions how "children love the sequels" because it's the exact opposite experience of what I've seen from the Chicagoland community. 

Agree. There is a big difference between Clones and Stormtrooper (you went very indepth). Heck we even have a TV show about the clones during the CW. 

 

I wonder how they would implement Rey into the game. I'm thinking 8 Red attack dice, Red Defense. Offensive Surge. Defensive Surge. 6 Wounds. Courage 3. Movement 2. 150 points sounds reasonable. We need her to be as good as she is in the movie.

[devin.pike.1989 1,546]

3 hours ago, Alpha17 said:

A Phase I clone isn't "just a stormtrooper with a different helmet and rifle."  Besides appearance, which is quite noticeable, the training and equipment differences is extremely telling.  In gameplay, that means they have far different stats than a stormtrooper.  How would Resistance soldiers differ from their Rebel counterparts?  Or First Order from the Empire?  Unless you make them uncanonically powerful, they really wouldn't be all that different. 

Huh!  So you are saying you don't like my overly simplistic and reductive take on a thing that you like?  Noted.  It's interesting isn't it, that people tend to notice the uniqueness of the things they like while they don't pay attention to the details of things don't like.  Hint hint.

I play Saga as well as legion and people often refer to it as a game about hairy guys with sticks.  How are a bunch of vikings with spears and shields different from a bunch of welsh with spears and shields?  They play wildly differently on the tabletop due to having a vastly different suite of abilities.

This whole argument that the factions must be unique and completely differentiated is false anyways.  Last year everyone said we would never get hoth troopers because they were just reskinned reb troopers.  When it comes down to it, every unit in star wars is just a dude with a gun.  But we star wars fans care about them and know their differences.

[devin.pike.1989 1,546]

1 hour ago, R3dReVenge said:

I wonder how they would implement Rey into the game. I'm thinking 8 Red attack dice, Red Defense. Offensive Surge. Defensive Surge. 6 Wounds. Courage 3. Movement 2. 150 points sounds reasonable. We need her to be as good as she is in the movie.

Again, obvious troll is obvious.

[AldousSnow 822]

@devin.pike.1989 we've seen this before. Between the Finn comment and now the Rey trolling. He obviously has nothing better to do than attempt to throw this discussion off topic and pretend he isn't trolling. I am blocking him at this point. 

[AldousSnow 822]

And... Back on topic again. 

I think the Resistance "Bridge Guards" (Canon) could make a really cool unique second set of Corps. They are basically fleet soldiers, but made their way down to Crait as well. Giving them powerful short range weapons and the Guardian ability could be cool. Maybe a weapon upgrade to switch them to medium range. 

[TauntaunScout 4,276]

I reject applying the video game term "re-skin" to a wholly different enterprise, that of miniature wargaming. There is no meaningful tactical distinction between a lot of things in historical and fantasy gaming that nevertheless warranted their own sculpts. In old video games the graphics took a lot less time to program than the unit abilities, so yeah, you literally took a shortcut by making a new skin for an old unit. In minis, the sculpting of the figures is way more expensive than writing up new stats.

If First Order dropped today or in 5 years, I'd imagine we'd see Kylo Ren, a squad of First Order troopers that had different heavies than stormtroopers but were otherwise not that different from Stormtroopers. They'd get a Support unit of... some weird little cannon or bike or something I didn't notice. Or a Support squad of... things... in... suits... and the faction would play just fine.

Resistance could get a squad of Resistance Infantry that are basically rebels, again with new heavies. Support, again, would be... something... with... supportive abilities... I don't know who the Resistance starter set general would be. Not Rey, she's far from an analogue to Luke's role within the rebellion as of ESB. Not Poe or Fin. Not Leia. Certainly not my favorite character, Rose. Not Old Luke or Han with their attitudes. So who? Probably just shoehorn someone in there and call it a day.

This is the problem with these factions, the underlying murkiness of the films themselves. I don't even like or watch the prequels but I knew who the generals and corps and support ought to be for a Clone Wars starter box. For Sequels, which I prefer, I'm honestly at a loss. And that's despite my not caring if new things have old stats.

I'm sure there's some video game or comic support unit but that's not gonna pull the marketing weight like speeder bikes and stuff did for the early days of the GCW releases. At least First Order gets an AT-ST for a heavy. The sequels are all either infantry, or vehicles too big for starter box support units.

Course no speculation is meaningful without seeing the 3rd film. Legion drew from all 3 movies (plus some) with just the starter and maybe the first wave of expansions. Depending on how you count certain models.

Edited August 22, 2019 by TauntaunScout

[TauntaunScout 4,276]

1 hour ago, devin.pike.1989 said:

Last year everyone said we would never get hoth troopers because they were just reskinned reb troopers. 

Not me. I always believed. Lit candles at a little shrine and everything.

I just thought they'd string me along for six years.

[chr335 658]

Honestly I am feeling the First Order and the Resistance will end up as sub-factions of the Empire and the Rebellion if we get those.

[devin.pike.1989 1,546]

25 minutes ago, TauntaunScout said:

I reject applying the video game term "re-skin" to a wholly different enterprise, that of miniature wargaming. There is no meaningful tactical distinction between a lot of things in historical and fantasy gaming that nevertheless warranted their own sculpts. In old video games the graphics took a lot less time to program than the unit abilities, so yeah, you literally took a shortcut by making a new skin for an old unit. In minis, the sculpting of the figures is way more expensive than writing up new stats.

If First Order dropped today or in 5 years, I'd imagine we'd see Kylo Ren, a squad of First Order troopers that had different heavies than stormtroopers but were otherwise not that different from Stormtroopers. They'd get a Support unit of... some weird little cannon or bike or something I didn't notice. Or a Support squad of... things... in... suits... and the faction would play just fine.

Resistance could get a squad of Resistance Infantry that are basically rebels, again with new heavies. Support, again, would be... something... with... supportive abilities... I don't know who the Resistance starter set general would be. Not Rey, she's far from an analogue to Luke's role within the rebellion as of ESB. Not Poe or Fin. Not Leia. Certainly not my favorite character, Rose. Not Old Luke or Han with their attitudes. So who? Probably just shoehorn someone in there and call it a day.

This is the problem with these factions, the underlying murkiness of the films themselves. I don't even like or watch the prequels but I knew who the generals and corps and support ought to be for a Clone Wars starter box. For Sequels, which I prefer, I'm honestly at a loss. And that's despite my not caring if new things have old stats.

I'm sure there's some video game or comic support unit but that's not gonna pull the marketing weight like speeder bikes and stuff did for the early days of the GCW releases. At least First Order gets an AT-ST for a heavy. The sequels are all either infantry, or vehicles too big for starter box support units.

Course no speculation is meaningful without seeing the 3rd film. Legion drew from all 3 movies (plus some) with just the starter and maybe the first wave of expansions. Depending on how you count certain models.

I agree that uniqueness is not necessary for a faction to exist.  I used to play battlelore quite a bit before ffg Terrinothed it.  That game had identical units for both sides and it was scenarios that made the two sides different.  As for commanders, there is General Emmat, Poe and Leia.  Operatives could be Rey, Solo and alt version poe. Maybe even jetpack Maz.  Corps would be Takodana style infantry and Crait style infantry.  

[TauntaunScout 4,276]

I mean there are Resistance protagonists you can give command cards. None of them has the same obvious punch (within the context of a game like this one) for me as Obi-wan, Greivous, Luke, Vader, and Ren.

Also. We need Kylo Stimpy.

Edited August 22, 2019 by TauntaunScout

[R3dReVenge 441]

1 hour ago, AldousSnow said:

@devin.pike.1989 we've seen this before. Between the Finn comment and now the Rey trolling. He obviously has nothing better to do than attempt to throw this discussion off topic and pretend he isn't trolling. I am blocking him at this point. 

That’s clearly Fin wearing a helmet bud.