What If- First Order were next

[Asvaldir 82]

1 hour ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

But here’s the thing.   No faction will EVER be fully fleshed out.   FFG can't release everything at once.  Yes they will focus on clone wars throughout the coming year, but they have likely already designed/planned the majority of the release.   While YOU may not want the sequel content, there are others that do.   Going by how FFG released two new factions not even a full year after Legions release, leads me to think that they are already planning new content for even more factions.  Granted this may be in the early stages, but it doesn't make sense to ignore it.  I'm sure if I went back, I could find many posts where people were saying it is too soon for clone wars.

I guess we have different definitions of fully fleshed out, because right now empire/rebels are fairly fully fleshed out to me. Could they have more units? Sure, but roughly 3+ units in each category is a solid amount of choices in my book. So when I say I want to see the clone wars factions fully fleshed out before we see the new movie factions, that's what I mean. Hardly seems that unreasonable of a wait, and I'd much rather see 4 fully fleshed out factions soon in the game than 2 full factions, annd 4 unfinished factions. 

Look it's totally fair that even if I'm not going to buy into the new movie factions, others want to and should have that opportunity, That being said, still think they can wait- clone wars just dropped, let's give clones and cis a fair variety of units before moving onto a new core set and new factions. 

[EVIL INC 207]

X wing going to a 2nd edition that is more streamlined and controllable points-wise with new releases and how well it is doing. I can see legion going that route. I would be willing to go out on a limb and say that we may have a 2nd edition before sequal factions are released. Not to say that there isnt someone working for FFG working on the setting up stuff for it and likely even playtesting. Just thinking that we will likely have to wait until then. To be honest, I would rather they take that time to work on it and put thought into it. Thats why it is a good idea i think to start giving them things to think about in what is likely a formative stage.

OR>>> I could be totally off in that. But the edition hopping with different games systems in this way is something we saw with GW.

[lunitic501 302]

1 hour ago, EVIL INC said:

X wing going to a 2nd edition that is more streamlined and controllable points-wise with new releases and how well it is doing. I can see legion going that route. I would be willing to go out on a limb and say that we may have a 2nd edition before sequal factions are released.

I maybe misunderstanding u, but are u saying that u think legion will get a second edition? If so I doubt it, at least not for a very very long time. X-wing only got a second edition because it was so unbalanced, and legion is definitely not in that boat. And if I remember correctly when asked about doing a second edition for armada they said they weren't planning on it and that 2nd editions weren't something they planned on doing they only did it for x-wing because of the balance issues.

[TauntaunScout 4,276]

Very few games that are described as imbalanced are actually imbalanced for home games. It takes some pretty dedicated effort to break them down into a stale "meta list" in most of them. I don't think Legion is all that broken as X-Wing 1e was rumored to be. I think the best way to fix its problems is with new OCD cards and possibly a new definition of Blue player.

Rebels and Imperials are fleshed out except for umm... lemme count... 5 units, in my opinion. We still would need Lando, a Hoth rebel commander, an ewok squad and hero, and a squad of imperial Navy troopers. At least for me to consider them done enough to never revisit, if FFG gets too distracted to come back to the GCW.

Sequel factions would need at least 6 items to be playable. That's effort that should really go into Clone Wars at this juncture. I vastly prefer the sequels to the prequels but I would much rather see a new hero, squad, and vehicle for Clone Wars at this point, than wind up with four new half-baked factions. A second commander, squad, and vehicle/artillery item for Clone Wars would turn those two into "real" factions to collect in my opinion.

 

Edited August 21, 2019 by TauntaunScout

[devin.pike.1989 1,546]

3 hours ago, R3dReVenge said:

I agree that getting young people into the hobby is critical for success, but the squeals have been widely disliked (especially by kids). It's quite a shame. When I was a child, I loved the CW.

My kids won't even touch the new star wars movies. They're bored out of their minds.

Then your kids are in the minority.  I don't say this to be rude.  I just have been too involved with kids and volunteering for kid events that I know that it is completely false to believe that the sequals have been "especially" disliked by kids.

Edited August 21, 2019 by devin.pike.1989

[R3dReVenge 441]

2 minutes ago, devin.pike.1989 said:

Then your kids are in the minority.  

We can agree to disagree. Majority of the opinions that I’ve heard and read has been negative regarding the new movies. 

On another note, the entrance age to legion is fairly high and it will only get higher once hard plastics are introduced. I think age 13-14 would be a good age to start teaching my kids.

[EVIL INC 207]

It is never because of balance but because they can make more money by selling us a new edition to keep up. Its the same way with MTG and other games. But your right, it likely wont be for a long time because they are still milking money from 2nd edition xwing. You dont want them too close together because that leaves "lean years" down the road.

I would not say it is a matter of "if" but it is instead a matter of "when". Thats why I think its a good idea to flood them with ideas for that time to hopefully get some of them into "print".

[TauntaunScout 4,276]

Ultimately we need more factions and these ones are a no-brainer. 

However no predictions of what starter boxes would be, can be made until we see the next movie. 

I don’t see a good resistance commander now frankly. 

[R3dReVenge 441]

14 minutes ago, TauntaunScout said:

Ultimately we need more factions and these ones are a no-brainer. 

However no predictions of what starter boxes would be, can be made until we see the next movie. 

I don’t see a good resistance commander now frankly. 

The problem I have with these factions is lack of uniqueness. Resistance fighters are just the same as rebel fighters. This will make it challenging to distinguish between models. Also, both units will be very similar in terms of playstyle. 

FO troopers vs stormtroopers have a similar problem. 

I think this game sticks with 4 factions for awhile atleast 2 years. 

[EVIL INC 207]

18 minutes ago, R3dReVenge said:

The problem I have with these factions is lack of uniqueness. Resistance fighters are just the same as rebel fighters. This will make it challenging to distinguish between models. Also, both units will be very similar in terms of playstyle. 

FO troopers vs stormtroopers have a similar problem. 

I think this game sticks with 4 factions for awhile atleast 2 years. 

I think it will also. Just pointing out that i believe they are not forgotten and that someone is working on it, even if only in back rooms at the office in preparation. They will have their work cut out for them in setting them apart but I'm sure they will have something more than differently colored bases.

[devin.pike.1989 1,546]

22 minutes ago, R3dReVenge said:

The problem I have with these factions is lack of uniqueness. Resistance fighters are just the same as rebel fighters. This will make it challenging to distinguish between models. Also, both units will be very similar in terms of playstyle. 

FO troopers vs stormtroopers have a similar problem. 

I think this game sticks with 4 factions for awhile atleast 2 years. 

They are about as similar as comparing ww2 British infantry to ww2 US infantry.  And nobody is saying that we can't have both US and British forces in games like bolt action.  There are big differences between rebels/resistance and empire/fo.  If I were to hold up a flash card, I have 100% confidence that you could tell them apart at a glance. 

[R3dReVenge 441]

18 minutes ago, EVIL INC said:

I think it will also. Just pointing out that i believe they are not forgotten and that someone is working on it, even if only in back rooms at the office in preparation. They will have their work cut out for them in setting them apart but I'm sure they will have something more than differently colored bases.

With the right sculpts they can pull it off. I'm just doubtful. Either way, I won't be purchasing and sequel merchandise. 

12 minutes ago, devin.pike.1989 said:

They are about as similar as comparing ww2 British infantry to ww2 US infantry.  And nobody is saying that we can't have both US and British forces in games like bolt action.  There are big differences between rebels/resistance and empire/fo.  If I were to hold up a flash card, I have 100% confidence that you could tell them apart at a glance. 

I've played my fair share of BF2. I'm not worried about distinguishing between FO/Empire. The differences are pretty obvious. Resistance and Rebels are where problems start to come up. Maybe this could be a good thing. I can just proxy my rebels as resistance fighters? I guess that would be bad for FFG sales....

I'm also worried about FO / Resistance corp uniqueness. What will distinguish the FO trooper vs the Stormtrooper? 

[devin.pike.1989 1,546]

What distinguishes a clone trooper from a stormtrooper?

[EVIL INC 207]

Even if you just have your models serve double duty alternating between rebels and resistance they would still make $ because many will want the different colored bases, the different poses possibly different weapons or uniforms. A lot of what makes these armies special is the leader running things. Different commanders and abilities they have can greatly influence how the troops operate. Even if they use some of the same leaders, those leaders will be older with different outlooks and improved (or lessened) skills. 

BUT, if you have no intention of buying into any of them, following the thread piping in how much the idea sucks or puting the idea down does nothing but crank up your post count and interrupt those who would like to see them or take part in putting forth ideas.  Id say, if you really want to talk about clone wars era and what needs to come out for it, your time would be more productively spent in a thread dedicated to that era. We understand your feelings and they have been made clear, but your not going to change fan's minds once the creative juices are flowing. Just trying to be helpful here and head any negative discussion off at the pass.

 

[Dosiere 478]

Its really a dang shame the new republic wasnt a thing in the sequels.  Would have been a great way to differentiate the rebels from the sequels.  

I'm waiting to see what the next movie brings as possibilities, esp for resistance.  

[AldousSnow 822]

1. Do I want Sequel Trilogy factions? The answer is yes. Yes I do. Very much. 

2. Do I think there is enough content to flesh out 2 whole factions (after episode 9)? Yes. Yes I do. 

3. Am I confused by the ambiguity of the question "will it be next?"? Yes. I am confused. 

If you mean will the Sequel Trilogy be the next major release? Then absolutely it will be. What else is there? I've given up on the concept of a neutral or scum/villainy faction. So yes First Order and Resistance will be next. When? Who knows. A year? 2 years? 

If by next, you mean next year or the next cycle, or next wave? Then no. No they won't be next. 

The big question is 'sub factions'. We 100% know they're coming, but have 0% information on what they are. All I have is guesses. And I'm not convinced that any guess is fool proof. They could release those neutral or scum units in a sub faction. Or faction adjacent groups like Ewoks or Gungans as sub factions. Or the First Order and Resistance could be sub factions. I hope not. I'd want to see them as fully functional factions. But we don't know. I am curious to find out though. 

[R3dReVenge 441]

1 hour ago, devin.pike.1989 said:

What distinguishes a clone trooper from a stormtrooper?

Color, cape, mask. It's quite obvious. 

Tell me the difference between a rebel fighter and a resistance fighter?

1 hour ago, EVIL INC said:

Even if you just have your models serve double duty alternating between rebels and resistance they would still make $ because many will want the different colored bases, the different poses possibly different weapons or uniforms. A lot of what makes these armies special is the leader running things. Different commanders and abilities they have can greatly influence how the troops operate. Even if they use some of the same leaders, those leaders will be older with different outlooks and improved (or lessened) skills. 

BUT, if you have no intention of buying into any of them, following the thread piping in how much the idea sucks or puting the idea down does nothing but crank up your post count and interrupt those who would like to see them or take part in putting forth ideas.  Id say, if you really want to talk about clone wars era and what needs to come out for it, your time would be more productively spent in a thread dedicated to that era. We understand your feelings and they have been made clear, but your not going to change fan's minds once the creative juices are flowing. Just trying to be helpful here and head any negative discussion off at the pass.

The point still stands. There will be several players that will proxy and FFG will lose sales because of this. 

I find these threads to be premature. CW factions aren't even out and we have people discussing sequel stuff (in multiple threads) which pushes the focus away from the upcoming releases and to stuff that is years away. 

 

But I was actually being productive in my last post. What changes do you see between a FO trooper and a stormtrooper? What will separate them rulewise?

 

Edited August 21, 2019 by R3dReVenge

[devin.pike.1989 1,546]

Color cape mask?  Where do you see color or a cape on a clone trooper?as for Rebel fighter vs resistance fighter, they wear totally different headgear.  Rebels wear a soft cap with a sort of armored ring, resistance wears a fully enclosed helmet with a yellow tinted visor that flips up out of the way.  They carry very different looking rifles and they have an actual uniform appearance as opposed to the hodge-podge of uniforms worn by the rebel trooper.

Now tell me a phase 1 clone trooper isnt just a stormtrooper with a different helmet and rifle...

Edited August 21, 2019 by devin.pike.1989

[R3dReVenge 441]

10 minutes ago, devin.pike.1989 said:

Color cape mask?  Where do you see color or a cape on a clone trooper?as for Rebel fighter vs resistance fighter, they wear totally different headgear.  Rebels wear a soft cap with a sort of armored ring, resistance wears a fully enclosed helmet with a yellow tinted visor that flips up out of the way.  They carry very different looking rifles and they have an actual uniform appearance as opposed to the hodge-podge of uniforms worn by the rebel trooper.

Now tell me a phase 1 clone trooper isnt just a stormtrooper with a different helmet and rifle...

https://www.google.com/search?q=501st&rlz=1C1CHBD_enUS797US797&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiMkMTylJXkAhUFUKwKHYInByUQ_AUIESgB&biw=1706&bih=838#imgrc=36W8OGqdUYZZhM:

 

Stormtroopers look very different. There are several different clone legion color schemes to paint. I can't say the same for stormtroopers. Show me a picture of rebels vs resistance fighters. That might clear things up.

Edited August 21, 2019 by R3dReVenge

[devin.pike.1989 1,546]

[EVIL INC 207]

Now your getting to the point of trolling. But the differences between rebel and resistance can be many things. Different uniforms/armor- just a matter of sculpting. The same with races, You might find more aliens among them. You can even cosmetically have different weapon sculpts. These are just a few things without even going into possible new rules, new leaders maybe even new mounts or vehicles. Even if folks have their models do double duty, FF would NOT lose sales and could only gain. 

As for being prematuure... hardly. They are going to do it. The only question is when. If you wait until after they have all of their releases set in stone with no chance of getting ideas in, your too late. Now, it the time to put forth ideas so that the ones who are going to do it can have those ideas on hand when they do. You can rest assured that there is at LEAST one or two developers reading the forums.

[R3dReVenge 441]

1 minute ago, devin.pike.1989 said:

That's just Fin wearing a mask....

[EVIL INC 207]

Looks like a helmet to me. just saying. It is a perfect example of how it does not take much at all to differentiate the squads. Heck, for every player who uses their old rebel models to represent resistance, there will be a rebel player buying resistance units to serve in their army to add variety or because they think they look cooler.

[R3dReVenge 441]

1 minute ago, EVIL INC said:

Now your getting to the point of trolling. But the differences between rebel and resistance can be many things. Different uniforms/armor- just a matter of sculpting. The same with races, You might find more aliens among them. You can even cosmetically have different weapon sculpts. These are just a few things without even going into possible new rules, new leaders maybe even new mounts or vehicles. Even if folks have their models do double duty, FF would NOT lose sales and could only gain. 

As for being prematuure... hardly. They are going to do it. The only question is when. If you wait until after they have all of their releases set in stone with no chance of getting ideas in, your too late. Now, it the time to put forth ideas so that the ones who are going to do it can have those ideas on hand when they do. You can rest assured that there is at LEAST one or two developers reading the forums.

I'm not trolling. Just stating facts that you don't want to hear.

We find loads of aliens within both factions. That won't help the average viewer, or even myself (who follows most star wars things) distinguish between the two. It's hard for the typical viewer to distinguish a tiny miniature based solely on it's weapon (I've encountered this in my 40k days). That's why I can see most players (myself included) just to proxy my rebels as resistance fighters (if I so desperately want to play them). 

We won't see new factions for at least 2 years. That's a long time. 

[R3dReVenge 441]

6 minutes ago, EVIL INC said:

Looks like a helmet to me. just saying. It is a perfect example of how it does not take much at all to differentiate the squads. Heck, for every player who uses their old rebel models to represent resistance, there will be a rebel player buying resistance units to serve in their army to add variety or because they think they look cooler.

When I see that picture, I think of a rebel pilot that fell out of his vehicle. Most people will think that (besides the hardcore star wars fans). 

Actually, here is an interesting thought. I bet that if you go around with that picture and asking people if that was a rebel or resistance fighter, the community would be split 50:50.

Edited August 22, 2019 by R3dReVenge