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emeraldbeacon

Droid Rock Hopping

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Sort of an edge-case thought I had... I was just wondering what your collected thoughts were, on how it would play out.

We'll start off with a droid that ends up on an asteroid with CLOSED struts, for some reason (say it clipped the rock when two other friendlies were holding on, or it got tractor beamed there... something like that).  With struts closed, it can't shoot, of course.  Next turn, the droid sees that it's in line with another asteroid, a short distance away.  Feeling it can make it, it performs a long straight maneuver, flying over the asteroid it's CURRENTLY on, then landing on the NEXT rock as well, struts now open.  The question...  does the droid suffer any effects from the FIRST asteroid it flew over?

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Nope, as long as it elects to open its wings it is ignoring the rock when it moves through.

 

You ignore obstacles at range 0 and while you move through them.

 

Which means that as long as you open the wings, you're ignoring the rocks, even if you only opened them because of the second rock.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Nope, as long as it elects to open its wings it is ignoring the rock when it moves through.

 

You ignore obstacles at range 0 and while you move through them.

 

Which means that as long as you open the wings, you're ignoring the rocks, even if you only opened them because of the second rock.

Ability Que. Both Struts and Obstacles share the same trigger timing (While the ship executes a maneuver) and game effects are put in to the queue before abilities. The asteroids' effects were added to the queue before the struts opened (so the struts did not negate the "move through" trigger). The initial Asteroid is no longer at range 0 of the Droid when the asteroid's effect is processed so is not being ignored, the second asteroid is at range 0 so is being ignored. The droid has to roll the first asteroid's die.

Edited by Hiemfire

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1 hour ago, Hiemfire said:

Ability Que. Both Struts and Obstacles share the same trigger timing (While the ship executes a maneuver) and game effects are put in to the queue before abilities. The asteroids' effects were added to the queue before the struts opened (so the struts did not negate the "move through" trigger). The initial Asteroid is no longer at range 0 of the Droid when the asteroid's effect is processed so is not being ignored, the second asteroid is at range 0 so is being ignored. The droid has to roll the first asteroid's die.

By that logic though you wouldn't ignore the rock you landed on either.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

By that logic though you wouldn't ignore the rock you landed on either.

🤨 You do because it is at range 0 of the ship when the struts are open.

Edited by Hiemfire

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4 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

🤨 You do because it is at range 0 of the ship when the struts are open.

I think that what @thespaceinvader is saying is that, if the rock effects are put into the queue (and resolve) before the struts, then droids will always crash into obstacles before opening struts and landing.  Since that doesn't appear to be the case (notwithstanding the separate argument that Struts are non-functional as written), my interpretation of @thespaceinvader's evaluation is, since the maneuver is completed in one step, the struts effect would trigger WHILE executing the maneuver, then the actual check for obstacle effects would occur AFTER the maneuver was executed, making the open struts work for both rocks.

At least, that's what I think they're saying. :D

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8 hours ago, emeraldbeacon said:

I think that what @thespaceinvader is saying is that, if the rock effects are put into the queue (and resolve) before the struts, then droids will always crash into obstacles before opening struts and landing.  Since that doesn't appear to be the case (notwithstanding the separate argument that Struts are non-functional as written), my interpretation of @thespaceinvader's evaluation is, since the maneuver is completed in one step, the struts effect would trigger WHILE executing the maneuver, then the actual check for obstacle effects would occur AFTER the maneuver was executed, making the open struts work for both rocks.

At least, that's what I think they're saying. :D

Pretty much yes.

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15 minutes ago, RampancyTW said:

Oh dear.  What happened? 

Struts say, "While you execute a maneuver ... you may flip this card." and the other side says, "After you execute a maneuver, flip this card."  The theory is that you flip the card to open while executing a maneuver and then since you have just executed a maneuver you have to flip the card to closed again.  I was unaware of any judges actually ruling this way, but I had heard the argument before.

I always support judging the game using the rules as written since anything else requires assumptions to be made about the designers intentions, but saying that an upgrade does absolutely nothing because of a minor timing issue in the rules is taking that too far.  It's not too much of a leap to assume that an upgrade on a ship is supposed to to something, maybe not something effective and maybe not something in every case, but it will never be the case that an upgrade card on every possible ship in every possible scenario does nothing.

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Posted (edited)
Quote

Asteroid: After executing the maneuver, it rolls one attack die.

This is actually the trigger and what gets put in the ability queue.

 

Not this part. 

Quote

While a ship executes a maneuver, if it moves through or overlaps an obstacle, it executes its maneuver as normal but suffers an effect based on the type of obstacle.

Although this can read like an game effect that goes into the queue, its not. The game effect hasn't been decided yet so it doesn't know *what* to put into the queue. That it determined base on the type of obstacle, which itself has the timing of "after executing the maneuver".  Any Official judge ruling otherwise is misunderstanding the rules. 

Edited by Lyianx

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5 minutes ago, Lyianx said:

This is actually the trigger and what gets put in the ability queue.

You're conflating the when with the why. Moving through or overlapping an asteroid triggers the game effect, after executing the maneuver is when the game effect is processed.

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