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5 hours ago, T_Kageyasu said:

Well, this is an interesting perspective because all of the extra world building doesn't have to ruin your vision of things. Rokugan as an isolated, highly traditional, conserved society has a populace largely ignorant of the outside world and you can run a lifetime of campaigns in which those heathen Gaijin have absolutely no screen time, are never encountered beyond those uncouth Unicorn.  You can even run a campaign in which the propaganda machine of the Emperor is cranked up to 11 and any outside influence is viewed as heresy, which might be fun for PCs if they want to be against the establishment.

Personally, I'm hoping for a FFG update to the Burning Sands campaign supplement published many years ago by AEG as one chapter will just barely scratch the surface.

yeah i know , im talking in general.. i mean they will add this to ccg, then expand with what ? africa , america , europe ?  i mean the game was awesome as it was.. at least for me

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Looks promising!

I have always had the thought that even though "ronin" is one word that there are several different "things" encapsulated in it. You have Great Clan samurai who are "taking a Gap Year" and seeing the world before settling down into their duties, you have outcasts who have lost their Clan, you have guys who are essentially crooks and bandits, & finally you have a hereditary class of people who don't quite fir in to the official structure of the world. 

I would love to see more clearly how each clan makes use (or doesn't) of ronin. Scorpions can obviously use them as cut outs for their more nefarious and deniable activities. The Crab always need more soldiers on the Wall. I can imagine that the large Matsu family resists any other Bushi (of questionable provenance!) taking their work and or glory. And the Crane looking down long noses at the uncultured and poorly educated. But how do Ronin and the Phoenix interact? Are there things that they use ronin for? The Dragon? The Unicorn?

Crossing my fingers! I have hopes this is going to be good!

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18 hours ago, T_Kageyasu said:

Personally, I'm hoping for a FFG update to the Burning Sands campaign supplement published many years ago by AEG as one chapter will just barely scratch the surface.

Not going to happen due to FFG not owning the Burning Sands. AEG didn't sell that part of the IP when FFG bought L5R.

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I love the concept of this book, it fills a void that needed filling and allows for FFG to flesh out the edges and gaps in the setting in their style without running into rabid old edition lore nerds.

I already like the subtle and not-so-subtle changes made to many areas, the way the world now works at least a little bit more logically in terms of power structure, logistics and societal norms, and I am looking forward to preordering both of these books from my FLGS asap.

 

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1 hour ago, Ultimatecalibur said:

Not going to happen due to FFG not owning the Burning Sands. AEG didn't sell that part of the IP when FFG bought L5R.

I'm curious how this will play out.. does this mean FFG will drastically alter the outside world to avoid infringement? Yet plenty of content they own (Unicorn) are based on property they don't (background in the Burning Sands). Keeps the lawyers employed I guess.

Reminds me of when White Wolf took over Ravenloft but couldn't write the name of a certain super evil "death knight" darklord of Sithicus (Lord Soth still owned by WotC or the Dragon Lance writers.

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1 hour ago, T_Kageyasu said:

I'm curious how this will play out.. does this mean FFG will drastically alter the outside world to avoid infringement?

They covered it quite a bit in the Unicorn novella. They just replaced a lot of the Burning Sands peoples with other, similar, things. Some of them even the same thing with differently spelled names.

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The new Burning Sands, as introduced in the new novella, includes the Qamarist Caliphate, at the far end of the Sand Road.  This Caliphate is actually a collection of different lands and peoples: "the sun-browned Nehiris, the black-haired people of the river.", "the olive-skinned Sogdans build great towers and ziggurats.", "the fair-skinned Suhili still live a seminomadic life... fight an eternal battle against the dragons, monsters and minions of Seth that emerge from the cursed sea.", "The dark-skinned Bandar live to the west across the Sea of Jewels"

Elsewhere along the Sand road are (from East-West, approximately) Tegensai mountain folk who appear to follow Shinsei's teachings; somewhat to the south The Ivory Kingdoms, whence comes great tea; the Ganzu of a hidden valley, sworn to the Shino.

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2 hours ago, narukagami said:

They covered it quite a bit in the Unicorn novella. They just replaced a lot of the Burning Sands peoples with other, similar, things. Some of them even the same thing with differently spelled names.

Thanks! I'll need to check that out. I'm planning a campaign involving Gaijin artifacts, place names, etc and I'd like it to close enough to new lore.

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1 hour ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

The new Burning Sands, as introduced in the new novella, includes the Qamarist Caliphate, at the far end of the Sand Road.  This Caliphate is actually a collection of different lands and peoples: "the sun-browned Nehiris, the black-haired people of the river.", "the olive-skinned Sogdans build great towers and ziggurats.", "the fair-skinned Suhili still live a seminomadic life... fight an eternal battle against the dragons, monsters and minions of Seth that emerge from the cursed sea.", "The dark-skinned Bandar live to the west across the Sea of Jewels"

Elsewhere along the Sand road are (from East-West, approximately) Tegensai mountain folk who appear to follow Shinsei's teachings; somewhat to the south The Ivory Kingdoms, whence comes great tea; the Ganzu of a hidden valley, sworn to the Shino.

Indeed.  While the Rempent is basically Pharaonic Egypt and hasn't changed, the "Jewel of the Desert" HAS changed from pre-Islamic Babylon to Islamic Bagdad and that IS significant.  What I am wondering is whether "Dai-Chin" will be making an appearance.  Originally the Yodatai were a quasi-mix of Alexander the Great's armies and Roman Legions.  Since the culture of the Burning Sands has changed from pre-Islamic to Islamic, that changes the equation with regards to whether it is the Greeks or the Romans who come to call from the West.  And that just covers the land routes from the West.  You also have sea powers who could again come to call on Rokugan centuries after the Battle of the White Stag.  Whether Portuguese, Spanish, English, French, or even an equivalent of American, I suspect that a Commodore Perry sailing into the Bay of the Golden Sun and forcing the issue could cause quite an uproar.

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Posted (edited)
On ‎8‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 6:58 AM, Void Crane said:

I would love to see more clearly how each clan makes use (or doesn't) of ronin. Scorpions can obviously use them as cut outs for their more nefarious and deniable activities. The Crab always need more soldiers on the Wall. I can imagine that the large Matsu family resists any other Bushi (of questionable provenance!) taking their work and or glory. And the Crane looking down long noses at the uncultured and poorly educated. But how do Ronin and the Phoenix interact? Are there things that they use ronin for? The Dragon? The Unicorn?

The Dragon I could see needing Ronin for 'odd jobs' around Rokugan, simply because they're infamously always short of warm bodies - both being one of the smallest clans numerically and their current birth rate issue.

But it'll be interesting to see.

On ‎8‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 2:02 PM, Avatar111 said:

It will never be in depth as Rokugan. It is basically to wrap the setting into a more fleshed out universe/world.  And giving the option to players to play one of these gaijin characters, as you know, every movie have that one outsider like Robin Hood's friend.

This. I would expect you'll see a given gaijin nation given about the same background as a minor clan. Which makes it a nice-to-have, but hardly world-changing if you politely ignore its existence. But fleshing out things like the gaijin artefacts the PCs looted (ahem) 'recovered on behalf of the emerald magistrature' from Slow Tide Harbour with some more detail actually makes them more interesting, and even if Gaijin nations are only really interacted with in Slow Tide Harbour, Gotei Port and Khanbulak, adding them is by default 'fleshing out' those three cities.

 

Edited by Magnus Grendel

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

This. I would expect you'll see a given gaijin nation given about the same background as a minor clan. Which makes it a nice-to-have, but hardly world-changing if you politely ignore its existence. But fleshing out things like the gaijin artefacts the PCs looted (ahem) 'recovered on behalf of the emerald magistrature' from Slow Tide Harbour with some more detail actually makes them more interesting, and even if Gaijin nations are only really interacted with in Slow Tide Harbour, Gotei Port and Khanbulak, adding them is by default 'fleshing out' those three cities.

Yes! Enough information to be useful for those creating timeline agnostic campaigns... I've become a glutton for (punishment) running adventures that don't take place during the current timeline. One of the best ways to appreciate the intricacies of  Rokugani culture is by comparing and contrasting against another society, and these interactions haven't been consistent throughout time.

Edited by T_Kageyasu

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3 hours ago, T_Kageyasu said:

One of the best ways to appreciate the intricacies of  Rokugani culture is by comparing and contrasting against another society, and these interactions haven't been consistent throughout time.

Indeed.  The clash of cultures (Stranger in a Strange Land) is often a great opportunity for drama and roleplaying.  Challenging what a character(and to a lesser extent player) believes, values, and respects is motivation for drama and contrasts nicely against the Mary Sue cardboard cut-out characters.  I think the Unicorn Novella did a very good job of that and giving players the tools to replicate similar culture clashes can lead to nearly endless potential for storytelling.

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The Unicorn novella also has like, the perfect pitch for playing Gaijin characters, it almost felt a little shoehorned. Shono has the realization that Saadiyah al-Mozedu has basically the exact same internal conflict as a samurai, placing her code of beliefs vs her personal desires and trying to find the right path, which in RPG terms is basically "so gaijin characters have ninjo vs giri as well, just what their duty and honor system is like is different than bushido". 

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4 hours ago, neilcell said:

Indeed.  The clash of cultures (Stranger in a Strange Land) is often a great opportunity for drama and roleplaying.  Challenging what a character(and to a lesser extent player) believes, values, and respects is motivation for drama and contrasts nicely against the Mary Sue cardboard cut-out characters.  I think the Unicorn Novella did a very good job of that and giving players the tools to replicate similar culture clashes can lead to nearly endless potential for storytelling.

I'll need to look into that, and I just bought the Unicorn Novella. Plenty of reading for my miniscule free time :)

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3 hours ago, UnitOmega said:

"so gaijin characters have ninjo vs giri as well, just what their duty and honor system is like is different than bushido". 

The old Burning Sands setting suggested something similar, in that the different codes of honor certainly exist among Gaijin cultures but deviate (focus more strongly or are absent a couple of tenants) enough that they don't quite resemble Bushido. Heck even Tsuno have a code of "honor" if ambition and creative cruelty can be considered principles.

Should we expect a new set of honor loss/gain tables in the new book for foreigners within Rokugan?

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Gaijin and Ronin will be nice parts of the book (and lore that really needs to be filled in for the new continuity), but Peasants is the part that got me really interested.  I wanna see what is in there for peasants.

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Well, all the characters in The Highwayman at Gencon were using those concepts, so if somebody could spill the beans that'd be great. I heard that one of the ronin characters was like a "path of the sword" thing where they were really good with all sword type weapons but didn't have any otherwise flashy school ability. 

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On 8/17/2019 at 6:07 PM, gmcc said:

yeah i know , im talking in general.. i mean they will add this to ccg, then expand with what ? africa , america , europe ?  i mean the game was awesome as it was.. at least for me

It's almost certainly not going to be like that. Characters from other nations may turn up every now and then in the LCG, one or two at a time (probably as Mantis, Unicorn, or unaligned cards). Legend of the Five Rings is, by and large, focused in Rokugan with the occasional guest star from outside. It's not the sort of setting where they're going to add new supplements for each country over time, like some games might. There may be books that briefly mention or describe other cultures. But we're extremely unlikely to see the entire planet fleshed out.

To put it in perspective, in the 20-ish years of the original card game, the vast majority of the action took place in Rokugan much as I described above. In the last few years, they did a larger arc where the population of the Ivory Kingdoms was wiped out and Rokugan explored and colonized the ruins. But even then, by and large the action was still focused on how this affected the samurai, not shoehorning in a bunch of other influences and cultures into the CCG or RPG.

For the record, AEG did make a separate "Legend of the Burning Sands" card game with ties between that setting and Rokugan, and that did get an RPG supplement eventually. But even then, for the most part, Rokugan arguably had more influence on the Burning Sands than vice-versa and the games were not mechanically compatible. Aside from the Burning Sands and Ivory Kingdom stuff, other nations and cultures generally got vague mentions in passing at best. AFAIK, we never even got anything like a world map.

Now, of course, I don't have any particular insight into FFG or their plans. I'm purely going on precedent based on how these things have functioned in the past and the fact that FFG has had a lot of interest in respecting the setting's foundations and keeping our expectations in line with the original game. I could be wrong, but for the moment I'm trusting my instincts on this one.

TL;DR: The slippery slope you seem to be worried about is likely all in your head.

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1 hour ago, MythicFox said:

It's almost certainly not going to be like that. Characters from other nations may turn up every now and then in the LCG, one or two at a time (probably as Mantis, Unicorn, or unaligned cards). Legend of the Five Rings is, by and large, focused in Rokugan with the occasional guest star from outside. It's not the sort of setting where they're going to add new supplements for each country over time, like some games might. There may be books that briefly mention or describe other cultures. But we're extremely unlikely to see the entire planet fleshed out.

To put it in perspective, in the 20-ish years of the original card game, the vast majority of the action took place in Rokugan much as I described above. In the last few years, they did a larger arc where the population of the Ivory Kingdoms was wiped out and Rokugan explored and colonized the ruins. But even then, by and large the action was still focused on how this affected the samurai, not shoehorning in a bunch of other influences and cultures into the CCG or RPG.

For the record, AEG did make a separate "Legend of the Burning Sands" card game with ties between that setting and Rokugan, and that did get an RPG supplement eventually. But even then, for the most part, Rokugan arguably had more influence on the Burning Sands than vice-versa and the games were not mechanically compatible. Aside from the Burning Sands and Ivory Kingdom stuff, other nations and cultures generally got vague mentions in passing at best. AFAIK, we never even got anything like a world map.

Now, of course, I don't have any particular insight into FFG or their plans. I'm purely going on precedent based on how these things have functioned in the past and the fact that FFG has had a lot of interest in respecting the setting's foundations and keeping our expectations in line with the original game. I could be wrong, but for the moment I'm trusting my instincts on this one.

TL;DR: The slippery slope you seem to be worried about is likely all in your head.

i really hope this is the case  , thanks for the info i got happier knowing that . hope FFG follows the same since rokugan japan / china theme is the best and i love it very much

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