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cnemmick

[IACP] Season 2 Content Finalized and Testing League #1 Starting Soon

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42 minutes ago, Spidey NZ said:

the only drawback i have with it, is upgrading all my cards and remembering all the new additions.  i would take it on board and update my set if there was a way to buy a professional  printouts of the cards for the IACP project.

With the official FFG errata that's happened over the years, I've just printed out the changes, and slid it into the card sleeve over the original. Any color printer should work well enough that you can hardly tell a difference.

42 minutes ago, Spidey NZ said:

Also updating all the digital apps that i have used for so long would help with me adapting the skirmish.

Not necessarily all of them, but at least one. Fortunately for us, there is one for Android, Startactics: Army Builder. That has Season 1 changes as an option when you edit your collection. I'm not sure when season 2 will be added in, but hopefully soon.

Edited by thestag

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11 hours ago, Spidey NZ said:

I have been observing this project from a far. Honestly, it feels very overwhelming, so many changes, it feels like a new game. the only drawback i have with it, is upgrading all my cards and remembering all the new additions.  i would take it on board and update my set if there was a way to buy a professional  printouts of the cards for the IACP project.  Also updating all the digital apps that i have used for so long would help with me adapting the skirmish.

In addition to what TheStag said, Tabletop Admiral also has the IACP stuff including season 2.  You just need to edit your collection to add "IACP" to the list.

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On 8/28/2019 at 10:43 PM, thestag said:

Not necessarily all of them, but at least one. Fortunately for us, there is one for Android, Startactics: Army Builder. That has Season 1 changes as an option when you edit your collection. I'm not sure when season 2 will be added in, but hopefully soon.

I talked with @Spidey NZ about Startactics in private, and meant to share more information about the app publicly.

The developer of Startactics does not play IA and will update the app for us if we pay him to do so. He is charging $300 per update. For Season 1, I paid for the update myself. He is charging the same price for Season 2 and I can't afford to pay the full update charge myself going forward.

If there are enough app users, we could collect enough money to pay for the update for Season 2. I can chip in $50 probably.

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On 8/28/2019 at 10:43 PM, thestag said:

With the official FFG errata that's happened over the years, I've just printed out the changes, and slid it into the card sleeve over the original. Any color printer should work well enough that you can hardly tell a difference.

Javier Alcalde Jurado has done a magnificent job creating IACP cards that are easily printable. You can find them on the Official PDF Document page at ia-continuityproject.com.

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39 minutes ago, cnemmick said:

I talked with @Spidey NZ about Startactics in private, and meant to share more information about the app publicly.

The developer of Startactics does not play IA and will update the app for us if we pay him to do so. He is charging $300 per update. For Season 1, I paid for the update myself. He is charging the same price for Season 2 and I can't afford to pay the full update charge myself going forward.

If there are enough app users, we could collect enough money to pay for the update for Season 2. I can chip in $50 probably.

First off, thank you for putting that money forward to get it done for season 1.

With the handful of IA apps out there, you would think one of the devs would be interested in adding IACP as an option without incurring a cost. Though I can't say that with any certainty.

While I like the ability to put IACP changes in the app, It's not a deal breaker for me (at least so far. As more and more changes are made that could change). I currently don't see the value in spending money to upgrade the app. I could see paying a few dollars to have an app that is supported, but paying a sum every time IACP proposes more changes. Perhaps I'm in the minority, but it would be worth it to reach out to some other devs regardless. Just my 2 cents.

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On 8/31/2019 at 12:18 AM, cnemmick said:

The developer of Startactics does not play IA and will update the app for us if we pay him to do so. He is charging $300 per update. For Season 1, I paid for the update myself. He is charging the same price for Season 2 and I can't afford to pay the full update charge myself going forward.

If there are enough app users, we could collect enough money to pay for the update for Season 2. I can chip in $50 probably.

Jesus Christ. $300? That's outrageous.

Starting to feel like a mug for making the IA Tools Suite patchable so people can make their own changes, for free, which you did for IACP Season 1 (and are welcome to keep doing, or not, as you see fit, in fact at this point it's out of my hands). Any time you want to donate me $300, or even $50, don't let me stop you. [edit] Which is actually far snippier than you deserve, sorry. You are one of the two people to generously donate to me for the Tools Suite, so thank you. I'm just taken aback by how much this guy is asking for from hobbyists rather than doing it for the benefit of the community. My ire is aimed at him, not you. [/edit]

On 8/31/2019 at 1:08 AM, thestag said:

With the handful of IA apps out there, you would think one of the devs would be interested in adding IACP as an option without incurring a cost.

Some devs happily do lots of work for free, for the love of the game. Apparently it's a losing strategy though.

Edited by Bitterman

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25 minutes ago, Spidey NZ said:

not outrageous in the slightest. its hard work.

I am fully aware of how much work is involved. I didn't summon the Kensei IA Tools Suite into existence in a five-minute moment of whimsy. (Though by the way, if the guy has done it in any halfway sensible way, spending half an hour editing a data file should not be hard work, in fact, for the Tools Suite you can do it for yourself and see exactly how little work is involved; though the coding of the wider Startactics app - which is already done, regardless of IACP or what he charges them - would have been very hard work indeed, of course).

My point is that as a similarly hard-working developer who's contributed tools to the community for free, and been actively engaged in implementing features that people have requested, for free, all for the love of the game and to benefit people who share that love for this game; to learn that other developers are asking for $300 to make any change at all is a bit of an eye-opener. I made the Tools Suite patchable (which took additional work) specifically so that people wouldn't be beholden to me if they wanted to make changes, and that groups like the IACP could, if they wanted, make use of my work (and for Season 1 they did), even though I had nothing to do with the IACP. That didn't benefit me at all, but was intended to benefit the community.

Charging for it just feels like going against the ethos of community-focused development. YMMV. 😒

Edited by Bitterman

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12 hours ago, Bitterman said:

I am fully aware of how much work is involved. I didn't summon the Kensei IA Tools Suite into existence in a five-minute moment of whimsy. (Though by the way, if the guy has done it in any halfway sensible way, spending half an hour editing a data file should not be hard work, in fact, for the Tools Suite you can do it for yourself and see exactly how little work is involved; though the coding of the wider Startactics app - which is already done, regardless of IACP or what he charges them - would have been very hard work indeed, of course).

My point is that as a similarly hard-working developer who's contributed tools to the community for free, and been actively engaged in implementing features that people have requested, for free, all for the love of the game and to benefit people who share that love for this game; to learn that other developers are asking for $300 to make any change at all is a bit of an eye-opener. I made the Tools Suite patchable (which took additional work) specifically so that people wouldn't be beholden to me if they wanted to make changes, and that groups like the IACP could, if they wanted, make use of my work (and for Season 1 they did), even though I had nothing to do with the IACP. That didn't benefit me at all, but was intended to benefit the community.

Charging for it just feels like going against the ethos of community-focused development. YMMV. 😒

thanks for the discussion, i think i understand where you are coming from. As i have become aware, from designing the Imperial Assault character tracker app, im doing it for the love of the game, and i will probably use the app in the future.  Though i Still paid several guest illustrators for their hard work they put into their designs, even though, some of those illustrators would not use the app. 

I guess, overall I dont think it is a bad thing for someone to be paid for supplying a service.  i always donate to app services that i use frequently to thank the developer for their hard work.

perhaps it is coming from my illustration and animation background, having many clients ask for drawings and animation for free, because they think drawing fun cartoons cannot possibly be hard work.

i think i understand where you are coming from

 

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6 hours ago, Spidey NZ said:

perhaps it is coming from my illustration and animation background, having many clients ask for drawings and animation for free, because they think drawing fun cartoons cannot possibly be hard work.

I understand this too, and yes, it's certainly frustrating. As a software developer it's somewhat uncommon to be asked to do work completely for free, but very common for someone to say, "I've had a great idea for an app/game! If you turn my idea into a design, then code, debug, publish, market, and support the app/game, I'll let you keep half the profits!"... which is the same thing as working for free. I get this several times a year, and people actively working as contractors get it constantly. So yeah, I take your point.

For me, and YMMV, the line comes on whether it's a commercial endeavour. If it's intended to make money, you pay commercial rates (and by the way, even the $300 mentioned above doesn't go very far at all for that). None of this is commercial, nobody's going to earn a salary off it. It's a hobby, it's a community, it's helping like-minded people get even more enjoyment out of a game they already love so much. Maybe I'm too puritanical for my own good, but bringing money into it (as anything other than "there's a donate link here if you're feeling generous, ain't no thang") just feels dirty. If everyone who gave something to the community expected money for it, IACP would be charging a subscription fee, people coming up with their own card designs or missions would be setting up micro-transaction payments, a1bert would be charging for rules interpretations, and a community around this game simply wouldn't exist. Who wins out of that?

Anyway. Probably gone far enough off-topic by now. Sorry.

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