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direweasel

Sears Catalog Swarm

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Posted (edited)

Working on a hyperspace list for the weekend - I want to run Separatists, and not the Infiltrator.  So this is what I've got so far.  Input appreciated!

Oh, and bonus points if you're old enough to get the reference.  😎

 

Captain Sear (39)
Kraken (10)
Soulless One (6)

Baktoid Prototype (28)
Fire-Control System (2)
Energy-Shell Charges (5)

Precise Hunter (23)
Energy-Shell Charges (5)

Precise Hunter (23)
Energy-Shell Charges (5)

Precise Hunter (23)
Energy-Shell Charges (5)

Separatist Drone (21)
Discord Missiles (4)
Total: 199

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

Edited by direweasel

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I don't understand what the Baktoid Prototype is doing in this list.  Energy Shell Charges easily fire from a Calculate token, so the Baktoid's ability to attack without one against a Locked enemy kinda becomes irrelevant.  It'd be cheaper to just bring an Initiative 3 Separatist Bomber, and probably as effective.  Firing ESC with a lock and not a calculate also misses out on one of the stronger elements of ESC: the eye to crit conversion.  That requires the calculate from the ship itself, and can't be done with a neighbor's calculate via Networked Calculations.

Meanwhile, a Separatist Bomber opens a slot for DRK-1 Probe Droids, which can be used to get long range locks and often double-mods on the opening round.  It's not automatic, but it's not too hard to pull off, if you're jockeying for position a little.

Currently, points are a little tight for the DRK-1s, but here's the two ways I'd:

  • Sear (Kraken, Soulless One) 55
  • Separatist Bomber (ESC, DRK-1) 39
  • Separatist Drone (Energy Shell Charges) 26 - I have this sense, I may be wrong, that I'd rather put Shells on the Drones, to use them as the first-line, and try to save the Precise Hunters for the 2nd line without Shells to use as the follow-up.  Bullseye seems more likely once in the scrum later on at close range.  Again, that might be totally wrong.
  • Separatist Drone (Energy Shell Charges) 26
  • Precise Hunter (Discord Missiles) 27 - You also might not have two Discord Missiles... Personally, I only have 1.
  • Precise Hunter (Discord Missiles) 27

Or

 

  • Sear (Kraken, Soulless One) 55
  • Techno-Union Bomber (ESC, DRK-1) 36 - this list variant goes with an Init 1 bomber for Probe Droids over the Baktoid, but keeps everything else in the list exactly the same.
  • Separatist Drone (Discord Missiles) 25
  • Precise Hunter (Energy Shell Charges) 28
  • Precise Hunter (Energy Shell Charges) 28
  • Precise Hunter (Energy Shell Charges) 28

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3 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

I don't understand what the Baktoid Prototype is doing in this list.  Energy Shell Charges easily fire from a Calculate token, so the Baktoid's ability to attack without one against a Locked enemy kinda becomes irrelevant.  It'd be cheaper to just bring an Initiative 3 Separatist Bomber, and probably as effective.  Firing ESC with a lock and not a calculate also misses out on one of the stronger elements of ESC: the eye to crit conversion.  That requires the calculate from the ship itself, and can't be done with a neighbor's calculate via Networked Calculations.

Meanwhile, a Separatist Bomber opens a slot for DRK-1 Probe Droids, which can be used to get long range locks and often double-mods on the opening round.  It's not automatic, but it's not too hard to pull off, if you're jockeying for position a little.

Currently, points are a little tight for the DRK-1s, but here's the two ways I'd:

  • Sear (Kraken, Soulless One) 55
  • Separatist Bomber (ESC, DRK-1) 39
  • Separatist Drone (Energy Shell Charges) 26 - I have this sense, I may be wrong, that I'd rather put Shells on the Drones, to use them as the first-line, and try to save the Precise Hunters for the 2nd line without Shells to use as the follow-up.  Bullseye seems more likely once in the scrum later on at close range.  Again, that might be totally wrong.
  • Separatist Drone (Energy Shell Charges) 26
  • Precise Hunter (Discord Missiles) 27 - You also might not have two Discord Missiles... Personally, I only have 1.
  • Precise Hunter (Discord Missiles) 27

Or

 

  • Sear (Kraken, Soulless One) 55
  • Techno-Union Bomber (ESC, DRK-1) 36 - this list variant goes with an Init 1 bomber for Probe Droids over the Baktoid, but keeps everything else in the list exactly the same.
  • Separatist Drone (Discord Missiles) 25
  • Precise Hunter (Energy Shell Charges) 28
  • Precise Hunter (Energy Shell Charges) 28
  • Precise Hunter (Energy Shell Charges) 28

Thanks for taking the time to give input!

The goal with the Baktoid was to be able to fire the charges on it when I had BOTH the lock AND a calculate.  I could use the lock (and preferably the FCS) to try to reroll to more blanks to eyeballs, which I would then use calculates for (including, as you say, turning one into a crit) The reason I took it was that it was the only Hyena variant that had sensors and missiles.  That was the thought process.  But I think you're right, in that I'm giving up too much for that. 

I haven't been able to get much mileage with the probe droids in the past, but it could just be that I suck at using them.  It might also be that they were loaded onto Infiltrators, which tend to be further back from the swarm because of their base size.

I have used precise hunters well in the first row with the first pass.  My thought process there was that with 3 ships staggered in the front of the swarm, chances are good that AT LEAST one of them has a bullseye on somebody.  Often more than one.  So I know that part of the list works.  It's great when I do get the bullseye when firing the charges, I'm more likely to get an eyeball that way.  What's new about this list is Sear, and it's my first list with a Hyena.

I like your 2nd list a lot, I'll play around with that in the next day or two, at least on Fly Casual, and see how I can do with it.

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3 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

My issue with the Baktoid is that you didn't really have a way to get both Lock and Calculate.

...not in the same round, no. Is that a deal breaker, you think?  The thought was to get a lock first, then calculate and shoot the second.

Oh, and yes, I do own discord missiles.  I bought 2 "Servants of Strife" packs, and 2 Vulture Expansions, along with 1 Hyena and 1 Infiltrator.  That's my Separatist collection at present.  I'd like to get another Hyena, and then a couple of Geonosians when they come out.

Thanks again for the input. 

 

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1 hour ago, Muppetfluffer said:

I love Ion missiles, they mostly do same dmg as other 3dice rockets but if you do more dmg then u get control and can kill it next round 😃

Your Baktoid is 35

 

Unidrone  26

probe  5

Ion missile 4

35

 

Ion missiles don't do same damage as other missiles.  They do a max of one damage, and that can't be a crit.

 

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10 hours ago, direweasel said:

Ion missiles don't do same damage as other missiles.

I think you need to check how much those energyshells do in averege compared to Ion missiles after all dice and modifications :)

On the instances where you do 2dmg its 1dmg and 1ion wich is amazing for low Initiative swarm. 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Muppetfluffer said:

I think you need to check how much those energyshells do in averege compared to Ion missiles after all dice and modifications :)

On the instances where you do 2dmg its 1dmg and 1ion wich is amazing for low Initiative swarm. 

Well, "average damage" would depend almost entirely on what you're shooting at.  A TIE Interceptor with a focus and evade token is going to take a lot less than a Decimator with no tokens.  To just make a blanket statement that they "mostly do the same damage" at that point is so vague as to be pretty much useless.

Anyway, all of that aside, your idea to use Ion missiles is not a bad one, except that I would need to make sure that Init 1 pilot can get into range to get a lock before firing.  The big benefit of the shell charges is that they only have to have a calculate token, which is not range dependent, and which I was almost always going to take anyway.

Edited by direweasel

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The thing about Lock munitions vs Calculate munitions is that in a lot of lists, it's not impossibly hard to get a long lead with DRK-1s, and get locks well before engaging.

I go back and forth on the effect, however.  Ion Missiles are less flexible (ESC can switch between targets).  They can't ever do more than 1 damage and don't inflict crits (ESC crits are sometimes handy).  But they're also 3 charges, cheaper, and Ion control effects can be nice.  Meanwhile, Calculate-based ESC cannot be fired if you spend your calculate token to not-die, so if you're able to get locks well enough ahead of time, you can spend your calculate freely for defense and still shoot a missile at something.  That's pretty nice, on squishy Vultures.  One of their biggest strengths is networked Calculation, and ESC kinda doesn't play well with that ability.  It's also almost impossible to fire Energy Shell Charges on a K-Turn or Talon Roll Turn, while Ion can if the locks go unspent.

I think it's probably a push as to which is better, and that's great for the game.

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16 hours ago, direweasel said:

Well, "average damage" would depend almost entirely on what you're shooting at.

Your absolutley right :)

But I dare say that if I shoot from the hip, 85-90% has 2-3 green.

3 red 1calc and lock vs

3green+focus: 0 hits 37% 1 hit 39% 2hits 19% 3 hits 3%

2green+ focus: 0hit 14% 1hit 40% 2hits 36%  3hits 14%

So its pretty close id say :)

But everything comes down to personal preference. I just found that ion+probe is a great way (for me)to keep points down and get a few extra struts or upgrade something else.

But I run 4 hyenas and 2 droids mostly.

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