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Pulling the Strings (Nantex article up)

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17 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

 

2 of the pilots basically need Ensnare or they have no pilot ability (outside of taking Tractors elsewhere in your list). Deflection is weird, I guess it lets you repo without getting boned by the -1 AGL, which might make it good if you want to use them as cheap flankers (I assume Deflection is in the 1-3pt category because outside of oddball cases, it's just mitigating the die you lost for being tractored). I'll be surprised if Ensnare isn't in the 15-20pt range (at a minimum).

Ensnare can't cost that much minimum. It requires R0-1, mobile arc pointing at the chosen enemy (remember, you have to rotate it before getting the token) and works only at the end of the Activation Phase (if there's noone exactly where you want at least 1 enemy ship...). However, I believe it should have a scaling cost with Initiative, because it's way better in Sun Fac than the I3 generic.

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10 minutes ago, Vector Strike said:

Ensnare can't cost that much minimum. It requires R0-1, mobile arc pointing at the chosen enemy (remember, you have to rotate it before getting the token) and works only at the end of the Activation Phase (if there's noone exactly where you want at least 1 enemy ship...). However, I believe it should have a scaling cost with Initiative, because it's way better in Sun Fac than the I3 generic.

 

A cheap blocker that can tractor aces it blocks or just mess with generics is still super good.  I have gotten wrecked by enough Ketsu's and Tugs to appreciate being able how much an ability like this is "destroy target ship"

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1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

I doubt GD will see much play unless it's super cheap

I think the more ships on the table (for both sides) make GD better.  Higher point games might be pretty popular once Epic hits.  Or multiplayer games.  

34 minutes ago, MasterShake2 said:

I'll be surprised if Ensnare isn't in the 15-20pt range (at a minimum).

That is absurd.  I do like scaling, though, as I feel that matters quite a bit. 

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15 hours ago, Skitch_ said:

Am I the only one that immediately thought that one of these Nantex needs to be painted like a Halo Energy Sword? 

Also, I hope Targeting Computer isn't too expensive. If it follows 1.0 pricing it will be start out at 4 points. Is that a fair price?

It better be less than that, passive sensor gives your more utility than just a TL action and cost 3, so targeting computer better cost 2.

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3 minutes ago, DarthSempai said:

It better be less than that, passive sensor gives your more utility than just a TL action and cost 3, so targeting computer better cost 2.

To be fair, passive sensors is limited because it's a sensor upgrade, and thus fairly limited, while TC is a mod that can go on anything. I could see TC costing 3-4 points due to its versatility. 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, heychadwick said:

Gravetic Deflection doesn't care which side has a Tractor Beam.  If anyone on either side is in the firing arc of the attacker and has a Tractor Beam token on it....you get a re-roll.  So, let's say that Sun Fac pushes his TB token onto the first of a number of....Tie Fighters....Each shot that includes the lead Tie in their arc gives Sun Fac a re-roll

But if he has Ensnare (which he needs to tractor someone else) he probably doesn't have Gravetic Deflection. Unless he has two talent slots, in which case all bets are off.

 

2 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

I doubt GD will see much play unless it's super cheap

Ensnare just holds far too much utility since it doesn't specify enemy ships and is about the only way the Nantex can do any work with its piddly mobile arc. 

 

I suspect Ensnare will be fairly expensive, because it's clearly so much better (and basically vital for someone to have it to let Sun Fac and Chertek use their abilities). Gravetic Deflection is not a million miles away from autothrusters - instead of costing you an action (or a stress token so nominally 'next turn's action') the boost or roll is costing you a tractor token, which buggers up your defence. Deflection means you can use it pretty much at will without worrying about the impact on your defence, which probably makes it a good cheap choice for the Petranaki Arena Ace.

Who, come to think about it, probably also want Predator or Crack Shot. That's another pair of really good talents for a Nantex to throw on the pile.

1 hour ago, Vector Strike said:

Ensnare can't cost that much minimum. It requires R0-1, mobile arc pointing at the chosen enemy (remember, you have to rotate it before getting the token) and works only at the end of the Activation Phase (if there's noone exactly where you want at least 1 enemy ship...). However, I believe it should have a scaling cost with Initiative, because it's way better in Sun Fac than the I3 generic.

Comparing to other talents; you need to be at range 1 in arc - which is kind of like fearless - and lobbing a tractor token on is probably not massively different in effect to a guaranteed damage. However, you don't have to be in any specific aspect to the enemy, unlike outmaneuver or fearless. If I look at it as outmaneuver where you have to be at range 1 but don't have to be out of your opponent's arc, or fearless plus intimidation, I find myself leaning to the 6-7 point range.

It's clearly a powerful talent, so I'd be surprised if it's cheaper than that - I think Juke is currently the most expensive at 7?

 

I agree Gravetic Deflection is only a 1-2 point thing, by comparison.

Edited by Magnus Grendel

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1 hour ago, MasterShake2 said:

A cheap blocker that can tractor aces it blocks or just mess with generics is still super good.  I have gotten wrecked by enough Ketsu's and Tugs to appreciate being able how much an ability like this is "destroy target ship"

Their generics are i3/4 for a reason, probably ;) Can still block most aces, but you can’t just swarm with a bunch of stupidly annoying little Tractor Bugs.

 

 

@Mep I’m not “social justice warrioring”, I’m simply standing up for human beings that struggle with enough dehumanization without people making jokes that (even unintentionally)  dehumanize then further. Pronouns were being discussed, sorry if I wrongly assumed you were still talking about them. @Ryfterek Sorry not sorry I’m not going to sit down and shut up. I owe at least that much to any of my Minority friends.

 

I’m super excited about the article, and can’t wait to fly Ensnare Sun Fac with as many ESC Vultures as I can fit! :D

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1 hour ago, Archangelspiv said:

Something else I found out today, is that for bow tie turrets, they have to move to the arc previously not covered. When would this come up?

The reason my play group had to look it up was L'ulo Lampar. There are times when he wants to self stress but not move, so rotating the arc to the same location would be useful. Also, Paige Tico would have been able to use it as you said. But FFG actually thought about this one, and said you must rotate to another arc.

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38 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

But if he has Ensnare (which he needs to tractor someone else) he probably doesn't have Gravetic Deflection. Unless he has two talent slots, in which case all bets are off.

#^#&$* !!!  I thougt Gravitational Deflection was a Mod!  

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59 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:

Their generics are i3/4 for a reason, probably ;) Can still block most aces, but you can’t just swarm with a bunch of stupidly annoying little Tractor Bugs.

 

 

@Mep I’m not “social justice warrioring”, I’m simply standing up for human beings that struggle with enough dehumanization without people making jokes that (even unintentionally)  dehumanize then further. Pronouns were being discussed, sorry if I wrongly assumed you were still talking about them. @Ryfterek Sorry not sorry I’m not going to sit down and shut up. I owe at least that much to any of my Minority friends.

 

I’m super excited about the article, and can’t wait to fly Ensnare Sun Fac with as many ESC Vultures as I can fit! :D

I get that if you have to explain the joke, it may not be funny, but it has nothing to do with what you think it does. Worker insects are genetically female but are asexual. Period, nothing more to read into that. If you do, you bring your own bias. The complicated part of the joke refers to parthenogenesis which can be stressed induced and is rather complicated.

You choose to read into my statement something that simply does not exist there. The statement was about fictional insects and their biology. Really does have absolutely nothing to do with humans. You brought that to this topic, not me, and you are the one that decided to flaunt those attitudes here. You really do need to stop this.

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20 minutes ago, Mep said:

I get that if you have to explain the joke, it may not be funny, but it has nothing to do with what you think it does. Worker insects are genetically female but are asexual. Period, nothing more to read into that. If you do, you bring your own bias. The complicated part of the joke refers to parthenogenesis which can be stressed induced and is rather complicated.

You choose to read into my statement something that simply does not exist there. The statement was about fictional insects and their biology. Really does have absolutely nothing to do with humans. You brought that to this topic, not me, and you are the one that decided to flaunt those attitudes here. You really do need to stop this.

That's just how 21st Century communication works. 

1.  Hear someone say something. 

2.  Think of all potential meanings, no matter how far-fetched. 

3.  Latch on to a potentially offensive meaning and assume that's the one the speaker meant.

4.  Become offended

5.  Treat the speaker with anger or condescension depending on whether you choose to view the perceived offense as intentional or unintentional. 

6.  Continue to belabor the point long after the true meaning has been made clear and everyone else has decided to move on.

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1 hour ago, SpiderMana said:

can’t wait to fly Ensnare Sun Fac with as many ESC Vultures as I can fit! :D

Upon further reflection, I’m thinking two i3s might be better? It all depends on points, obviously, but you can potentially tractor two targets, or double up the tokens on a more agile target.

The timing is the rough part for non-Sun Fac Ensnarers, though.

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22 hours ago, XPav said:

So if you want the Tractor Token to move yourself, you have to take the Turret Rotate action, which means you have to move the turret to some other arc, right?

So (without Ensare or Gravitic Deflection), the Pinpoint Tractor Array probably shouldn't be used when you're in arc of anyone, due to the defense die hit and the fact you've only got 4 health, right?

 

I have a question.  Can you "fail" a rotate action by trying to rotate to an invalid direction?  If so, does the arc stay where it was?

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22 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:

Upon further reflection, I’m thinking two i3s might be better? It all depends on points, obviously, but you can potentially tractor two targets, or double up the tokens on a more agile target.

The timing is the rough part for non-Sun Fac Ensnarers, though.

I doubt the I3's will have the needed Talent slot. The I4 generics probably will though.

swz47_cards-arena-ace.png

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20 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

That's just how 21st Century communication works. 

1.  Hear someone say something. 

2.  Think of all potential meanings, no matter how far-fetched. 

3.  Latch on to a potentially offensive meaning and assume that's the one the speaker meant.

4.  Become offended

5.  Treat the speaker with anger or condescension depending on whether you choose to view the perceived offense as intentional or unintentional. 

6.  Continue to belabor the point long after the true meaning has been made clear and everyone else has decided to move on.

Rich coming from someone who helped cause a different thread to devolve into a second amendment rights debate. It's fine to de-rail a thread about your pet issue though right? You realize @Mep's last two comments on the issue before @SpiderMana responded were attacking Spider directly right? It's funny every time I see someone introduce the "SJW" phrase on the internet they are using it as an insult and usually are more disruptive than whatever person they are targeting. Of course calling someone a small person is always constructive to discourse, right?

Personally, I would love to see the issue dropped since it does like a misunderstanding. But I hate hypocrites more. Though, if you would like to stop belaboring the point, by all means I am sure everyone would prefer it.

 

As for Nantex I think it's going to be a niche ship. If you aren't regularly getting people in its bullseye it's unlikely to be worth its points because it will probably be expensive for just 2 atk die ship with a mobile arc.

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, GeneralVryth said:

Rich coming from someone who helped cause a different thread to devolve into a second amendment rights debate. It's fine to de-rail a thread about your pet issue though right? You realize @Mep's last two comments on the issue before @SpiderMana responded were attacking Spider directly right? It's funny every time I see someone introduce the "SJW" phrase on the internet they are using it as an insult and usually are more disruptive than whatever person they are targeting. Of course calling someone a small person is always constructive to discourse, right?

Personally, I would love to see the issue dropped since it does like a misunderstanding. But I hate hypocrites more. Though, if you would like to stop belaboring the point, by all means I am sure everyone would prefer it.

Someone completely missed the point of my post.  The issue isn't going off-topic; it's deliberately misinterpreting someone's words to find fault with that person.

Thank you for perfectly illustrating my point, though.

Edited by JJ48

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23 hours ago, Kreen said:

I'm curious about why, and very sad that, you felt the need to take a shot at LGBTQ folks in a thread about the awesomeness of a new release.

For shame, my dude. For shame.

And if that's not your intent, great! But you might want to edit your post, since that's how it comes across.

 

Edit: seriously FFG? Censoring the Q from LGBTQ?

@JJ48 here is the post you appear to be objecting to. The third line makes it pretty clear the poster is open to the idea that there may be a misunderstanding going on. What part of this strikes you as deliberately misinterpreting someone else's words?

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3 minutes ago, GeneralVryth said:

@JJ48 here is the post you appear to be objecting to. The third line makes it pretty clear the poster is open to the idea that there may be a misunderstanding going on. What part of this strikes you as deliberately misinterpreting someone else's words?

I'm not really sure how someone even reads any of that into what Mep initially wrote, but no, that wasn't the post to which I was referring. 

20 hours ago, SpiderMana said:

1. Asexuality has nothing to do with pronouns. Ace people and Non-binary people both exist, are both included under the LGBTQ banner, and are entirely different from each other (though there are people who identify with both, I’m sure.) Educate yourself, maybe?

2. Your post distinctly implies that you would continue to call somebody “him” or “her” after they asked you to call them a “them.” Even if you wouldn’t do it to their face, that’s disrespectful of their feelings.

3. One of the X-Wing designers prefers non-binary pronouns for themself. So maybe don’t make jokes invalidating one of the people who’s made this game possible for you? Especially on their forums?

In this post, Mep had already explained that his post wasn't meant as a slight, and yet SpiderMana decided to continue on and read it as insulting anyway.  I don't approve of personal attacks, but neither do I approve of actively searching for reasons to be offended.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

I'm not really sure how someone even reads any of that into what Mep initially wrote, but no, that wasn't the post to which I was referring. 

In this post, Mep had already explained that his post wasn't meant as a slight, and yet SpiderMana decided to continue on and read it as insulting anyway.  I don't approve of personal attacks, but neither do I approve of actively searching for reasons to be offended.

I think the issue was, at that point, Mep had been pretty flippant and dismissive, ending his post with an "educate yourself," without allowing for the fact that his post could have been read as offensive, or making any attempts to fix it, beyond the "sjw snowflake" line.

While he's not beholden to, if you're wanting a de-escalation of the situation, demanding that people educate themselves, when the poster (me) originally acknowledged that it might just be a misunderstanding is not the way to do it. Spider, understandably, got a little annoyed by Mep telling us to go educate ourselves about the LGBTQ+ community, while seemingly not acknowledging or being aware that ace and non-binary individuals are indeed part of that Q+.

If it wasn't meant as a slight, then he shouldn't have been snarky about it. Because that's how you de-escalate situations. Snark is a surefire way to escalate the issue.

 

Edit: the whole "stress levels affect your Facebook portrayal of gender identity or sexual preferences" bit seemed pretty dismissive, which is where I drew my conclusion from. That is, however, why I acknowledged that I could be misreading his intent. Had it ended there, or had he said "nope, I didn't mean that" without the snark and need to resort to name calling, I'm sure we all would have been pretty happy to drop the topic.

Edited by Kreen

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38 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

I doubt the I3's will have the needed Talent slot. The I4 generics probably will though.

swz47_cards-arena-ace.png

I am convinced that the ship was designed around ensnare so I believe the lowest generic will have one talent slot and the others will have 2. Why else would the pack come with 3 different Talents? No one ever said the A-wing would be the only ship to ever get 2 talents

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1 minute ago, Caduceus01 said:

I am convinced that the ship was designed around ensnare so I believe the lowest generic will have one talent slot and the others will have 2. Why else would the pack come with 3 different Talents? No one ever said the A-wing would be the only ship to ever get 2 talents

I was kindof thinking this might be the case, myself. But "a lot" of Talent cards in a pack doesn't really mean that it definitely will have two slots, and that's the best we have to go off of, for now. Especially since two of them are ship-specific, likely inflating the number somewhat artificially, if that makes sense.

Really just have to wait ;)

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3 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:

I was kindof thinking this might be the case, myself. But "a lot" of Talent cards in a pack doesn't really mean that it definitely will have two slots, and that's the best we have to go off of, for now. Especially since two of them are ship-specific, likely inflating the number somewhat artificially, if that makes sense.

Really just have to wait ;)

I just looked it actually comes with 4. I know it doesn’t mean for sure it will have 2 slots but it’s a good bet I think.

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4 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:

I was kindof thinking this might be the case, myself. But "a lot" of Talent cards in a pack doesn't really mean that it definitely will have two slots, and that's the best we have to go off of, for now. Especially since two of them are ship-specific, likely inflating the number somewhat artificially, if that makes sense.

Really just have to wait ;)

It could very well be like the Delta's configurations, with one being clearly preferred but rather expensive, and others being inferior but much cheaper and easier to fit into a list that isn't built around them. 

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