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Wazat

Four Passive Sensor Gunboats

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I've run a few games with 4 Passive Sensor Gunboats with Proton Torpedoes.  I liked the fleet overall -- feels kinda casual level, which is fine for what I want.  I suspect the fleet would struggle at higher levels of play, at least as I've built it.  Alpha-strike fleets tend to be feats or famine, and gunboats lack jousting so they need to be able to scatter and come back around, while something like a vulture swarm can slow-roll, k-turn, or park on rocks to keep the pressure up.  All the same, I'm liking the fleet enough to continue tinkering with it.

Aces fly circles around it, but the ships are so bulky that it gives me time to scatter and come at them from various angles so they can't arc-dodge forever.  Eventually I get a lethal shot into them.  I fought several ace battles actually; I've either won or come respectably close to winning each of those fights.  The time I fought a Decimator it went down extremely fast, and I think that's where this style of fleet shines.  Fat targets are delicious.

 

The starter

For this initial run I threw together a bunch of Nu pilots, with one packing an additional Advanced Proton Torp for close combat.  He occasionally managed to fire that, but it was usually a different gunboat stuck at range 1 of the enemy.  It's a basic fleet for a basic test of effectiveness, and it's generally effective.

  • Nu Squadron Pilot with Passive Sensors + Proton Torpedoes + Os-1 (48)
  • Nu Squadron Pilot with Passive Sensors + Proton Torpedoes + Os-1 (48)
  • Nu Squadron Pilot with Passive Sensors + Proton Torpedoes + Os-1 (48)
  • Nu Squadron Pilot with Passive Sensors + Proton Torpedoes + Os-1 + Advanced Proton Torpedoes (54)

At one point I swapped the APTs for Diamond-Boron Missiles.  I didn't end up using them though because standard Proton Torps were always better (four dice with a crit is amazing compared to spending two charges for 3 dice and a 50% chance for another damage if I hit at all).  That said I never fought any swarms, which is where DBMs would shine over protons.  And probably where I'd need the most help killing ships before they return fire.

 

With Support

I'm also considering swapping one gunboat out for a support TIE Reaper with Seventh Sister (just for the Force mods; her ability rarely works well), granting both coordination (get one torpedo focused) and a decently strong primary attack that doesn't mind range 1.  Unlike a Lambda, the reaper doesn't feel like a dangerous liability against fleets that love to joust, because it can easily scram out of the intended death zone (where a lambda just... can't).  If you have tactical officer it helps manage speed too: you can use a red coordinate to slow down (no ailerons next round), or white to move fast and keep up with one or more gunboats.  IMO, that all adds up to a solid support that helps instead of hinders the team.

  • Nu Squadron Pilot with Passive Sensors + Proton Torpedoes + Os-1 (48)
  • Nu Squadron Pilot with Passive Sensors + Proton Torpedoes + Os-1 (48)
  • Nu Squadron Pilot with Passive Sensors + Proton Torpedoes + Os-1 (48)
  • Scarif Base Pilot with Seventh Sister + Tactical Officer (56)

I wonder if perhaps Krennic or a plain Shield Upgrade would be better than Tactical Officer; I could also stand to trade Seventh Sister for a couple of Ruthless Rhos (see below for my thoughts on Ruthless gunboats).

  • Rho Squadron Pilot with Ruthless + Passive Sensors + Proton Torpedoes + Os-1 (52)
  • Rho Squadron Pilot with Ruthless + Passive Sensors + Proton Torpedoes + Os-1 (52)
  • Rho Squadron Pilot with Passive Sensors + Advanced Proton Torpedoes + Diamond-Boron Missiles + Os-1 (51)
  • Scarif Base Pilot with Director Krennic or Shield Upgrade (45) (maybe Hull Upgrade and another Ruthless Rho)

I haven't tested either Reaper setup yet (just four gunboats so far), but I like the potential of the support variant.

 

Ruth Stays Home

As above, one variation I'm considering is upgrading everyone to Rho and adding Ruthless when able.  Though we don't necessarily need the Init boost thanks to Passive Sensors, it can sometimes be handy to fire before other scrubs (e.g. swarms and other alpha-strikers).  And adding Ruthless appeals to me since I often have a gunboat or two at range 0-1, especially against those ace fleets.  If they can't dodge the arc, they like to move into range 1 to prevent a gunboat's torps.

I see three main virtues to eschewing Ruth's presence in my fleet:

  1. Gunboats have lots of health to spend on that Ruthless dice modification
  2. Ruthless handles that one blank/focus I tend to have left even after a spent lock, especially on proton torps
  3. It's a good use for a gunboat stuck at range 1 of the target (and unable to unload torps of its own), or a TIE Reaper hanging out in front (where it's wont to be given its initiative)

In the past I've had great results with Ruthless, but I haven't tried it in setup so I don't know that it'll work out in practice.

  • Rho Squadron Pilot with Ruthless + PS + Proton Torps + Os-1 (52)
  • Rho Squadron Pilot with Ruthless + PS + Proton Torps + Os-1 (52)
  • Rho Squadron Pilot with Ruthless + PS + Proton Torps + Os-1 (52)
  • Rho Squadron Pilot with PS + DBM + Os-1 (44)

 

Thoughts?

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Totally seems worth it to save points with one Diamond Boron Missiles, and maybe also one Plasma Torpedoes.  They're both potentially 4-damage ordnance, even if they get there in slightly different ways.  To run a 4-ship list, you could get Advanced SLAM (doesn't play well with Passive Sensors, but Advanced SLAM works well with Reload, or grabbing manual locks for later turns) on everything, with an extra 7 points to spare (one Advanced Protons?).

//

The other thing I keep thinking about is XG-1 instead of OS-1.  I don't know how often you're able to keep locks from turn to turn.  Without other mods or FCS, I'd guess the lock gets spent more often; there's only  a 6% chance with just a lock on 4 dice that you'll roll natural hits.  Without a lock on the target, OS-1 does nothing. 

XG-1 with Autoblasters seems like an interesting thought.  I'm not really counting on getting out of arc and trying to get cannot-be-cancelled crits.  Mostly I figure that it's probably wise to have an extra threat against someone who attempts to range control you, making your Bullseyes into 4-dice shots if someone gets past Range 2.  Meanwhile, I'm just guessing it'd be easier to use Autoblasters to get weaker 2-3 dice attacks when after SLAM and Reload.  Not as potent as a Torpedo, but maybe easier, since you don't have FCS to help you preserve your locks until the next round.

Might be totally useless.  Just something I was thinking about, but haven't tested in-game.

//

I'm also not into a support ship.  The strength of Passive Sensors is that you don't need support.  I'd be inclined to try to look for something like an Ace in the 4th ship slot.  Eh, that's probably just a preference thing.  Something like a Reaper can still hit fairly hard.  I'm sure it's fine.

But on the other hand, if running a support ship, Jendon seems like an easy ship to use, so why not scrap Passive Sensors and take FCS?  That'd work better with OS-1.  But then it's just a really different kind of list...

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I like the idea of XG-1 since I only occasionally needed to fire torps after a SLAM.  On the turns I did, it was sometimes handy, though without spending the lock it was indeed hard to hit (I really need advanced slam for a focus in those cases)...  But more often I was at range 1, and that's where Autoblasters help a lot.  If their attempt to dodge my arc goes wrong (meaning I'm behind them), and I happen to roll a crit, that's a bad day for that ace.  And the bullseye is also a serious danger zone.  All that adds some real solid bite to that range 1 shot, and range 1 was very common throughout the messy games I played.

Nu Squadron Pilot with Passive Sensors + Proton Torps + Autoblasters + XG-1 is exactly 50, so four of those fits perfectly.

I've also thought about 5x Rhos with Marksmanship + Autoblasters + Xg-1, three of which have Advanced Slam (eschewing torps entirely).  I haven't tried that fleet either.  It's a wall of beef with dangerous bullseyes and a mean flank effect.  I keep meaning to try it out but... I've hated fighting beef lists so much, I'm hesitant to field one.  :)  Whiny Wazat problems.

I think I'll at least try the PS + Torps + Autoblasters variant.  That seems like a really good complement to the torps.

//

Speaking of complementary additions... Hmm, maybe the fourth ship should be an ace like Predator Soontir.  He might be an effective cleanup ace.  Even though he's ultra-delicate and will need to hang back until the foe is distracted with the alphas, he can move and strike in ways those alphas can't.  Duchess with Fifth Brother and one of various talents also fills that role nicely, or Maarek Stele with FCS or Passive Sensors.  Room for a small bid, or autoblasters on each gunboat.  I'm surprised to discover Maarek is the cheapest of all of them... and hence surprised I don't see him a lot more often as a pocket ace.  In the past he's been pretty effective, just nothing like the great Vader.  Maybe he's not as impressive as I'm remembering?  Or maybe it's just my local meta.  Whatevs.

  • 3x Nu Squadron Pilot with Passive Sensors + Proton Torps + Xg-1 + Autoblasters
  • Maarek Stele with Passive Sensors + Crack Shot or Ruthless

or

  • 3x Nu Squadron Pilot with Passive Sensors + Proton Torps + Os-1
  • Soontir Fel with Predator

or

  • 1x Nu Squadron Pilot with Passive Sensors + Proton Torps + Os-1
  • 2x Nu Squadron Pilot with Passive Sensors + Proton Torps + Xg-1 + Autoblasters
  • Duchess with Fifth Brother + Crack Shot or Ruthless

I like that variety a lot.  Might help with the mire scenarios where I just need to angle one or more alphas to finish off a ship but it wants to be squirrely, and the way gunboats move doesn't lend itself to getting that shot.  An init 5 or 6 ace might have cleaned up quite well in those cases.  If I didn't play dumb and get it killed, that is; gunboats are mercifully... dense, and hard to kill despite my unwavering incompetence. ;)

//

What are your thoughts on the Ruthless Rhos?  Or otherwise Ruthless in a Gunboat team (e.g. on the pocket ace)?

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Great idea, and using Passive makes this a good idea over just Barrage Rocket Bombers. 

Honestly, I think the Bombers and Gunboats really need a bit of help. They're not super interesting to fly either. 

 

--

QD + 3 Harpoon Gunboats was a good list. Sadly, nothing is like QD anymore. 

Maarek doesn't get focus on critical turns, can be really tough, but he's good for his cheap cost. 

Duchess with Fifth + Hull sounds decent or Grand Inq. 

Or if you have 4 gunboats, Vynder

This is what I'd start with: 

Nu Squadron Pilot (32)
Passive Sensors (3)
Proton Torpedoes (13)
Os-1 Arsenal Loadout (0)

Nu Squadron Pilot (32)
Passive Sensors (3)
Proton Torpedoes (13)
Os-1 Arsenal Loadout (0)

Nu Squadron Pilot (32)
Passive Sensors (3)
Proton Torpedoes (13)
Os-1 Arsenal Loadout (0)

Major Vynder (41)
Fire-Control System (2)
Proton Torpedoes (13)
Os-1 Arsenal Loadout (0)
Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

 

Soontir also looks ok as long as you blow up their I6 ace with your Photon Torpedoes. 

 

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6 hours ago, Wazat said:

What are your thoughts on the Ruthless Rhos?  Or otherwise Ruthless in a Gunboat team (e.g. on the pocket ace)?

Probably not bad.  Ruthless Rhos + Jendon Shuttle seems cool to me.

But... I'm always nervous about Ruthless.  The 1-for-1 damage trade-off probably works out in your favor, but I keep thinking of something someone said in another thread: "If Ruthless was 0 points, you'd see a lot of Empire players losing games and not understanding why."

6 hours ago, Wazat said:

I've also thought about 5x Rhos with Marksmanship + Autoblasters + Xg-1, three of which have Advanced Slam (eschewing torps entirely).  I haven't tried that fleet either.  It's a wall of beef with dangerous bullseyes and a mean flank effect.  I keep meaning to try it out but... I've hated fighting beef lists so much, I'm hesitant to field one.  :)  Whiny Wazat problems.

I kinda don't like it.  I just don't think it'll do enough damage (2 dice most of the time).  While Autoblasters+Marksmanship is mathematically potent, I don't think it's a useful combination on most ships.  I'm not sure Rhos have the tools to make use of it.  They move too awkward (no barrel rolls, SLAM swings out wide, and doesn't always work for keeping guns on something like a K-Turn does), and are too low-initiative.

I still kinda think the best 5x Gunboat spam list is going to be Barrage Rockets.  There's no real tricks with OS-1, but it's just plain efficient red dice.  I don't think Ion (Cannon, or Missiles with Passive Sensors) will do enough damage, nor Homing Missiles (just seems worse than 5x PSen/Homing Zeta SFs).  PSen Barrage Rockets might have the damage, but there's potential range 3 issues.

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You have given me hope for the gunboat.  This is a fantastic idea!

I like ruthless on them with Jendon.  Still fits with the points update.  Sprinkle Advanced Slam or Passive Sensors to taste.

GUNBROS (199)
Rho Squadron Pilot — Alpha-class Star Wing    35
Ruthless    1
Proton Torpedoes    13
Advanced SLAM    3
Os-1 Arsenal Loadout    0
Ship Total: 52
Half Points: 26 Threshold: 4
     
Rho Squadron Pilot — Alpha-class Star Wing    35
Ruthless    1
Proton Torpedoes    13
Advanced SLAM    3
Os-1 Arsenal Loadout    0
Ship Total: 52
Half Points: 26 Threshold: 4
     
Rho Squadron Pilot — Alpha-class Star Wing    35
Ruthless    1
Diamond-Boron Missiles    6
Advanced SLAM    3
Os-1 Arsenal Loadout    0
Ship Total: 45
Half Points: 23 Threshold: 4
     
Colonel Jendon — Lambda-class T-4a Shuttle    46
ST-321    4
Ship Total: 50
Half Points: 25 Threshold: 5

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I'd take 4 Nu's all with advanced protons. Have 1 with Protons, 1 with Plasmas, and 2 with Concussions. Lack of range 1 punishment is rough for these Starwings and the Adv Protons make 3 die ships shy away from getting in your face. But if they stay beyond that, hit them with plasma, then proton, then concs.

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I know people love Jendon and Sai, but I've grown to hate Lambdas.  I've had nothing but bad experiences with them in 2E.  That's partially because the meta has favored fleets that brutalize them.  Opponents that want to joust (e.g. vulture swarms, beef lists, toolkit jousters, etc), and flankers like aces, all love a ship that can't get out of the way.  That lambda cannot avoid giving a favorable engagement to the opponent, and in my experience, that then causes problems for the rest of the team who are either looking to that lambda for support (and thus need to stay close, restricting their movement options), or are trying to keep it from dying and handing easy points to the foe (which is often a trap -- that often forces you into an encounter that favors the jousty foe, which is worse than letting the lambda die).  Given those scenarios, it's better to field a pocket ace instead of a support, or to field a different support.  Occasionally I can bait with the vulnerable ship, but it hasn't worked out -- it dies and I do very little damage with the opportunity in comparison, though that may be luck-fluke and not representative.

I could probably fly the lambda better, but overall I don't think the ship is in a good place right now.  And I don't like it for this fleet ether: Gunboats have to scatter and reengage because they cannot k-turn.  A lambda can't keep up with them, and more often becomes a liability.  That's why I turn to the reaper as a support.  It's fast and mobile enough that it's not forced into those situations against jousty fleets (meaning I can play smart and not play into the enemy's hands as easily); it has an easier time keeping its 3-dice primary on foes thanks to its sloops; and it can keep up with fast buddies instead of slowing them down or being left behind.  I don't regret fielding a reaper even if I lose, because that reaper was contributing.  I don't think a lambda has ever pulled its weight for me.

So as a general rule, if I'm choosing between the reaper and lambda, the reaper wins by default.  It's only a few points more and a few less health, for a lot more mobility.  I've regretted every time I've chosen the lambda instead, even when I love the pilot ability.  That may be a fluke of always facing something that loves the joust or flank, but the meta encourages those styles even in casual, so the Lambda isn't serving me well.  :(  Maybe that's unfair to the Lambda, could just be a string of bad experiences that are skewing my experience... but still I cringe at the idea.

 

3 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Probably not bad.  Ruthless Rhos + Jendon Shuttle seems cool to me.

But... I'm always nervous about Ruthless.  The 1-for-1 damage trade-off probably works out in your favor, but I keep thinking of something someone said in another thread: "If Ruthless was 0 points, you'd see a lot of Empire players losing games and not understanding why."

That's a good point, Empire often can't afford the tradeoff unless it's taking ships off the table with that extra damage and swinging the game in their favor.  Though most Empire ships are also not as beefy as gunboats.  TIE swarms for example can't afford to take that damage; they die too trivially already and the 1 damage makes them vulnerable to a direct hit or lucky shot.

I field Ruthless for Decimators and maybe for Gunboats, but not for most other ships because it's just not a viable trade.  I wonder if it's a trap even for them though.

 

9 minutes ago, 5050Saint said:

I'd take 4 Nu's all with advanced protons. Have 1 with Protons, 1 with Plasmas, and 2 with Concussions. Lack of range 1 punishment is rough for these Starwings and the Adv Protons make 3 die ships shy away from getting in your face. But if they stay beyond that, hit them with plasma, then proton, then concs.

So maybe something like this:

Nu Squadron Pilot (32)    
    Passive Sensors (3)    
    Adv. Proton Torpedoes (6)    
    Os-1 Arsenal Loadout (0)    
    Plasma Torpedoes (9)    
    
Nu Squadron Pilot (32)    
    Passive Sensors (3)    
    Adv. Proton Torpedoes (6)    
    Munitions Failsafe (1)    
    Os-1 Arsenal Loadout (0)    
    Proton Torpedoes (13)    
    
Nu Squadron Pilot (32)    
    Passive Sensors (3)    
    Adv. Proton Torpedoes (6)    
    Diamond-Boron Missiles (6)    
    Munitions Failsafe (1)    
    Os-1 Arsenal Loadout (0)    
    
Nu Squadron Pilot (32)    
    Passive Sensors (3)    
    Adv. Proton Torpedoes (6)    
    Concussion Missiles (6)    
    Os-1 Arsenal Loadout (0)    

For the price of concussion missiles we might as well field DBMs instead on one of the ships, which will work well against swarms and maybe give the following concussions something to do on a hit.  Usually I'm not impressed with concussions... they're a bit anemic for 6 points.  :(  It's frequently too hard to line up the scenario where their card-flipping will do anything (foes have to already have damage cards before the missile hits, and you have to hit with a 3-dice attacks, so it can be hard to land on, say, a TIE or Vulture swarm).

The APTs + Passive Sensors do indeed make range 1 terrifying.  As long as you're scary at range 2 as well, it generally works out.

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1 minute ago, Wazat said:

For the price of concussion missiles we might as well field DBMs instead on one of the ships, which will work well against swarms and maybe give the following concussions something to do on a hit.  Usually I'm not impressed with concussions... they're a bit anemic for 6 points.  :(  It's frequently too hard to line up the scenario where their card-flipping will do anything (foes have to already have damage cards before the missile hits, and you have to hit with a 3-dice attacks, so it can be hard to land on, say, a TIE or Vulture swarm).

I like your list better, Diamond Boron Missiles work incredibly great with Conc Missiles following. Imagine hitting swarm with each getting a damage, then flipping every damage card!

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, Wazat said:

I know people love Jendon and Sai, but I've grown to hate Lambdas.  I've had nothing but bad experiences with them in 2E.  That's partially because the meta has favored fleets that brutalize them.

While you definitely have a point, and I agree with the meta issue of having good jousters, I think most people don't really understand this ship. Do you think you understand it? 

I've spent 3 years learning it from Wave3 1.0. Its one of the most interesting designs there is because it actually has a flight pattern: Its turn 0 is incredibly important, you need to put the rocks on the far side and create yourself a no-rock area where you can diverge in plans. I find it best starting from a corner (facing forward vs non-jousters, plausibly facing sideways vs jouster list, you'll need to run here). Then place the rest of your fleet on the middle/semi-far side to create the classic anvil hammer. You'd be surprised how convergence works in Xwing too, Jendon and those that need to run close support are tricky, but there's actually a little known trick: convergence happens at certain points in the game, not all the time. 

Ships nowadays don't really have a flight pattern cuz the dials are so forgiving. The Lambda is a true classic dinosaur. 

The ship is exceptionally strong and has exceptional skills, but requires an exceptionally steep learning curve. it was the worse dial in 1.0, and 2.0 dials have experienced massive dial creep, making the Lambda the ship with the worst dial by an order of magnitude. 

 

I will generally take the Lambda over almost anything else in the point area. Though I grant that Maarek is rather fun too. 

Edited by Blail Blerg

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1 hour ago, Wazat said:

I know people love Jendon and Sai, but I've grown to hate Lambdas.  I've had nothing but bad experiences with them in 2E.  That's partially because the meta has favored fleets that brutalize them.  Opponents that want to joust (e.g. vulture swarms, beef lists, toolkit jousters, etc), and flankers like aces, all love a ship that can't get out of the way.  That lambda cannot avoid giving a favorable engagement to the opponent, and in my experience, that then causes problems for the rest of the team who are either looking to that lambda for support (and thus need to stay close, restricting their movement options), or are trying to keep it from dying and handing easy points to the foe (which is often a trap -- that often forces you into an encounter that favors the jousty foe, which is worse than letting the lambda die).  Given those scenarios, it's better to field a pocket ace instead of a support, or to field a different support.  Occasionally I can bait with the vulnerable ship, but it hasn't worked out -- it dies and I do very little damage with the opportunity in comparison, though that may be luck-fluke and not representative.

As someone who loves flying Lambdas, I think part of the trick is realizing how different they are from other 2.0 ships.  Other ships can be flown with minimal upgrades, but I find that the shuttle does best when loaded down.  Just including a shuttle for one pilot ability probably won't be worth the cost.  But including a shuttle so you can have that pilot ability and also have a cheap platform to bring along Vader and 0-0-0, while repositioning enemies with Tractor Beam?  Now you're talking!

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This is getting off topic to another beloved 3 winged beast, but I find the Lambda is also great naked. And I prefer going lean on the beef cuz it goes down fast if things go downhill (this is true) and I want to avoid giving up too many points. 

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Also, I would generally not fly Lambda with Gunboats... I don't find the synergy and mobility to be a good match. I want an ace to clean up things the Gunboats miss. a la QD 3 Nus, mix Grand Inq or Duchess or whatever nowadays to taste. 

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1 minute ago, Blail Blerg said:

Also, I would generally not fly Lambda with Gunboats... I don't find the synergy and mobility to be a good match. I want an ace to clean up things the Gunboats miss. a la QD 3 Nus, mix Grand Inq or Duchess or whatever nowadays to taste. 

The shuttles liked the pairing more in 1E, when the Gunboats could use Seismic Torpedoes. 

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4 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

This is getting off topic to another beloved 3 winged beast, but I find the Lambda is also great naked. And I prefer going lean on the beef cuz it goes down fast if things go downhill (this is true) and I want to avoid giving up too many points. 

Yeah, part of it may be that I don't play with time limits, so points don't mean much beyond, "will I do more damage with one loaded ship or two light ships?"

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rocks do play a factor, but generally its just that there's no need to go even more all in on the alpha thing. Having an ace is much better for this half-list imo than a lambda. 

its like trying to crush things between two anvils. you're probably better off with an anvil and a hammer for 99% of cases. 

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2 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

rocks do play a factor, but generally its just that there's no need to go even more all in on the alpha thing. Having an ace is much better for this half-list imo than a lambda. 

its like trying to crush things between two anvils. you're probably better off with an anvil and a hammer for 99% of cases. 

It's more the sheer fun of flying the Cygnus Spaceworks Showcase.  Not every list needs to be competitive. 

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1 minute ago, JJ48 said:

Yeah, part of it may be that I don't play with time limits, so points don't mean much beyond, "will I do more damage with one loaded ship or two light ships?"

Lol, totally derailing, but I like this topic lol. 

Imo its not really the time limit, its more that the Lambda will go down most likely, esp given enough time with no time limit. With a time limit, actually many times in a good game it won't go down, esp if my aces clean up the mess hard. But I like the mixed mobility lists more, say Vader Soontir Lambda over Vader Soontir Maarek cuz of the tankiness. And generally I'm not quite good enough to take no damage on the aces, its much easier to pop Maarek and lose the game imo. If the Lambda goes down, I don't really care. 

It also has the I1 movement and large base, which is just simply great for botching enemy plans. 

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3 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

A fun thematic list that's also competitive as **** is so much more fun. 

Well, you're speaking to someone whose favorite list is triple-Lambdas, so "competitive" clearly isn't exactly what I look for.  lol 

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Yea sorry guys, Lambdas just aren't my thing.  For that playstyle I'm more drawn to U-Wings, Sith Infiltrators... and especially Auzitucks, which are also pretty casual support ships but I love them anyway.  :)  The TIE Reaper is my go-to support craft in empire because I like how it moves.  Its a combination of personal preference and past experience.  Especially in this list, the reaper fits how I want to use it better than does a lambda.

With all that said, the more I think of it, the more I conclude the 4th ship should either be a 4th gunboat or a pocket ace, not a support.  As @theBitterFig pointed out, PS is supposed to free me from a support and let me try something else.  A pocket ace cleans up and snipes rather effectively, while a 4th gunboat adds more firepower coming from more directions, and more bulk to eat through.  I need to playtest some ideas next chance I get, but I just got my Lando's Falcon and a 2nd hyena, so it may have to wait a bit while I toy with those.

Let me know if you get to playtest one of these fleets!  I want to hear how it went.

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I was doing quite well with my Gunboat list before the points change. Three Nus with FCS, APT, Ion Missiles, OS1 and Advanced SLAM plus a juking Whisper. Comes to 205 now. I tried Echo instead of Whisper but she’s just not I. The same league. I was thinking of Soontir as a possibility.

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57 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

Well, you're speaking to someone whose favorite list is triple-Lambdas, so "competitive" clearly isn't exactly what I look for.  lol 

I murdered some ppl with a Lambda and 2 Upsilons in 1.0 (without the set up shenanigans either). But that WAS a very good darn list. 

A bit sad that Trip Ups was so NPE, cuz it sounded like such a good wacky idea. 

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Lambda are like Alexander Keith's.

AKneckpainstill.jpg

Those who like it, like it a lot.

//

6 hours ago, Wazat said:

With all that said, the more I think of it, the more I conclude the 4th ship should either be a 4th gunboat or a pocket ace, not a support.  As @theBitterFig pointed out, PS is supposed to free me from a support and let me try something else.

The Grand Inquisitor could be fun... I might have to build and pack that...

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