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wsmith32

Improving x wing

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FFG has produced a very good game in x wing but anything can be better ,so this is not a ***** session.  At this time x wing seems to be dominated by swarms,  big ships, and aces, not the better flying FFG said when 2.0 started.  what can be done to make it better.  Random thoughts but what about giving help to 2 to 4 initiative pilots.  You could include 1 and 5 pilots but 5 plots are almost as good as 6 and 1 pilots are so valuable for blocking for the price.   You could always lower the price for these pilots but what about up grades just for pilots at 2 to 4 initiative.  Lets say like a Push The Limit for them at 8 pts or so where u get an action for a stress. maybe raise their initiative  for 5 pts or add a talent for 8 to 10 pts.  I don't know it just seems they need help.

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, wsmith32 said:

At this time x wing seems to be dominated by swarms,  big ships, and aces, not the better flying FFG said when 2.0 started.  what can be done to make it better. 

 

...I mean, looking at the top cut of Gencon, we have 2 swarms, a few 4 ships, some big ships and some ace builds.  Like, this is most diverse meta the game has ever had.  So, I gotta say, I'm not sure where this is going.

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32 minutes ago, wsmith32 said:

Lets say like a Push The Limit for them at 8 pts or so where u get an action for a stress.

You mean like linked actions or the A-Wing's ability?

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Lets use a cursory breakdown of the top 14 at Gencon in terms of factions and Archetypes: https://listfortress.com/tournaments/928
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Factions-
Republic- 3
Resistance- 3
Scum- 2
First Order- 2
Empire- 2
CIS- 1
Rebels- 1
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Every faction represented by at least 1 entry, most have 2, and none of them are just blowing everyone else away.
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Archetypes-
Aces (3 or less ships, no large bases)- 2
Big Ships (3 or less ships with at least one large base)- 4
4 Ship builds- 5
Swarms (5+ ships)- 3
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Definitely top heavy for 4 ships builds, but not to a crazy degree and not a whole lot in common between them (2 were Resistance with Finn and Jess, but even those 2 had wildly different other ships with one having chewie). While aces had a small showing with only 2, both them made it to semifinals and one of them won.
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The takeaway here is that, right now, there doesn't appear to be an insurmountable power level disparity in favor of any singular build or faction.
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TL:DR, yeah, seems pretty healthy, practice a list and get good with it seems to be the best approach.

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It is a really interesting question what "better flying is what wins games" would actually look like in X-Wing, or if that is something that many/most players would even really want.

The less list-building, match-up, fortressing-not-fortressing sorts of strategically advantageous engagement-control "flying," and other things matter, the more the game is just going to come down to who has the hotter dice that round, and the more the game starts to approach an RNG coin-toss.  Which, don't get me wrong, can make for really fun beer-n-pretzel sorts of casual games, but tends to make for a really bad competitive game.

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1 hour ago, wsmith32 said:

... not the better flying FFG said when 2.0 started. 

 

I would also point out, the current conversation people are having about Regen aces is a little misleading.  For anyone that watched the Gencon stream, the game was over, Anakin had lost.  The only reason Regen was a factor was because of A) an inexplicable straight 2 instead of a hard 1 and B) not barrel rolling to block to the hard 1 from Anakin.  If the Scum player had did this in the semis, that game was over, Anakin just loses.  That game was 100% decided by flying, not regen, time or lists.

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Go listen to Radio TCX’s episode and hear the North American champion talk about how he flew Republic Aces. That’s what I would consider good flying, despite a list that fits a popular archetype at the moment. It’s more about how you fly it and less about the build itself.

Also, the decisions made in list-building just can’t be taken lightly. One card can have a major impact on how you do in a tournament.

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Yeah, the game has a great diverse meta right now. but it could be even better: 

1. Bodies/low-Generics (I1-4) should be cheaper. Blocking to kill high level aces is pretty hard, and you need more bodies for that. Generics also focus on good flying, not good list building. 

2. I6s generally need to be quite expensive, maybe even more than they are now. Just a tiny tiny bit. Its getting close, but they're still incredibly good. I3s and I4s should be much cheaper, representing a huge bonus for lack of initiative. 

3. Rocks should matter a lot more. Gas clouds were a terrible idea and need to be much more bad to hit. 

4. Abilities need to be more like Tie Defender errata from 1.0. Fully execute and not overlapping obstacles. This includes those Fined Tuned, Full Throttles (on all ships), all the other abilities like Lando that happen after fully execute need the not overlapping clause too. Enough is enough, fined tune off a rock? that's just silly. I fly and love my Jedi so much, but seriously, this was a DUMB idea. So is every other only fully execute trigger. Make flying matter more. That's the way to make the game good. 

(5. Force=calculate is dumb. Double mods are silly just like they've always been. I know these are here to stay now, but lol) 

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I’ve thought variable pricing based on occurrence would be nice. Perfect example is Juke. On VAST majority of pilots it’s barely worth 3-4 points. BUT multiple occurrences of it make it ridiculous. If you’re first Juke cost 5, 2nd 10, etc. it stays where it should for single use but also can’t be spammed. This example does not address ships that get free evades...

Generics are priced based on their spamability not their worth. Sometimes this matches up but sometimes not. So your first Khiraxz could be 35 points, but they go up by X for each occurrence of the chassis. 1 Tie could be 20 points, but it goes up from there.

Downside and why this will not happen: the game is good enough without adding the extra complexity. Nightmarish to track and score...

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1 hour ago, MasterShake2 said:

 

I agree!  Gas clouds are an abomination!  All asteroids, all the time!

68789975_2431123336948198_64503093211074

That's absolutely adorable, except the blushing immediately makes me imagine this:

Trade Federation Drone-chan:  "I-I'm not giving you my calculate token because I like you or anything, b-baka!"

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As far as what can be done to improve the metagame in my opinion;

1) I5 and to a lesser extent I6 pilots still need to climb a bit in price. Low initiative pilots might also need to drop a bit, but lowering the floor too much could have a ripple effect long term.

2) Gas Clouds are dumb and need to be reigned in. If the only way to use them was via environment cards, that might go a ways towards making them more interactive.

3) Second player is too advantageous. Giving first player more control over the battlefield via environment cards could go a long way toward balancing things out.

In case it wasn't clear, I feel strongly that environment cards have the potential to significantly improve competitive play.

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5 hours ago, wsmith32 said:

FFG has produced a very good game in x wing but anything can be better ,so this is not a ***** session.  At this time x wing seems to be dominated by swarms,  big ships, and aces, not the better flying FFG said when 2.0 started.  what can be done to make it better.  

Ah, well.

Opened the thread thinking it might be a fun stroll thru imaginary what-ifs for the game.

Instead it's the usual clap trap of "this is what annoys me and needs fixed," but with an inspiring title.

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4 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

3. Rocks should matter a lot more. Gas clouds were a terrible idea and need to be much more bad to hit. 

4. Abilities need to be more like Tie Defender errata from 1.0. Fully execute and not overlapping obstacles. This includes those Fined Tuned, Full Throttles (on all ships), all the other abilities like Lando that happen after fully execute need the not overlapping clause too. Enough is enough, fined tune off a rock? that's just silly. I fly and love my Jedi so much, but seriously, this was a DUMB idea. So is every other only fully execute trigger. Make flying matter more. That's the way to make the game good. 

Fully agree on both of these - particularly number 4.  Hitting an obstacle or bumping another ship should really matter.  Any "gain token" ability should be precluded by "if you did not overlap and obstacle or another ship" then use said ability.  As a reminder - this "trick" was heavily abused by the Ghost/Fenn with Boost in 1.0 - move onto rock - allow enemy ships to move in for the juicy attack - co-ordinate boost off rock - destroy everything with Double TLT shots - awful.

Other than the above and a couple of other minor things I also think the game is in a good place.

Also, as MasterShake 2 pointed out earlier, a lot of those tournament games come down to one or maybe two little mistakes by a player that can cost them the game.  In that same tournament I recall a player using a torrent swarm against a falcon/wedge list made a slight error in deciding what order to move his swarm ships - it left him badly positioned and probably cost him the game.  This explains why I do so poorly at tournaments too - 10 mistakes is way too many - lol.

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1 hour ago, Darth Meanie said:

Ah, well.

Opened the thread thinking it might be a fun stroll thru imaginary what-ifs for the game.

Instead it's the usual clap trap of "this is what annoys me and needs fixed," but with an inspiring title.

In the spirit of more fun wishes...

-More environment cards

-A sequel to the epic expansion

-Tie Brute

-Hammerhead frigate

-Competitive Objectives

-Game mats of iconic locations like Scarrif's shield gate or the Death Star trench with included scenarios, perhaps even plastic obstacles like turbolaser turrets.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Squark said:

2) Gas Clouds are dumb and need to be reigned in. If the only way to use them was via environment cards, that might go a ways towards making them more interactive.

OR they could simply errata the rules on gas clouds. Make them apply a strain when you hit them.

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6 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Ah, well.

Opened the thread thinking it might be a fun stroll thru imaginary what-ifs for the game.

Instead it's the usual clap trap of "this is what annoys me and needs fixed," but with an inspiring title.

Exactly 😂

''X-wing is dominated by 3 wildy different type of archetype, all equally represented, and all with varying strenght and counter. Dev plz fix this plz!!1!''

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What needs fixing? Not too much...

Oh! Deluxe ship bases! They'd be a little thicker and heavier than standard bases, but only because they house built in laser lines for firing arcs! Make them available with green, red and blue to match your favorite fiction's weaponry! 

Bonus perk: potential blind your opponent while removing a ship after it's destroyed! 

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6 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Saying the meta is dominated by three vastly, couldnt-be-more-different archetypes seems to indicate that we're in an alright place atm 

I know you mean well. Cuz I've seen you mean well, but history forget you must not. 

Wave4: Phantom vs Fat Han vs Tie Swarm is EXACTLY what you just described and was one step away from being literally a broken meta. 

 

All that said, this current meta is still pretty decent (Wave4 2.0 is not Wave4 1.0, thank goodness). Having lived thru the 1.0 dark times, this is easily twice to thrice as pleasant. 

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33 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Wave4: Phantom vs Fat Han vs Tie Swarm is EXACTLY what you just described and was one step away from being literally a broken meta. 

You're describing a meta dominated by three lists. We're seeing three different archetypes, which are represented by multiple factions, all of which put their own slight twist on each of the archetypes in question (ie. Imperial aces are quite different from Republic aces, Rebel beef is quite different from Resistance Beef, etc).

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14 minutes ago, DR4CO said:

You're describing a meta dominated by three lists. We're seeing three different archetypes, which are represented by multiple factions, all of which put their own slight twist on each of the archetypes in question (ie. Imperial aces are quite different from Republic aces, Rebel beef is quite different from Resistance Beef, etc).

hey i mean, we do agree lol. 

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