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Crimsonwarlock

Big Deal in a Pod

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If you want the most efficient 3 dice attack in the game then Heroic, Perceptive Copilot and Advanced Optics. The only dice combination to not result in 3 hits is a double blank Heroicly rerolled into double blank. 

 

Heroic, Perceptive Copilot and Pattern Analyzer opens up the dial massively on the other hand, at the cost of some dice efficiency. 

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6 hours ago, Flurpy said:

If you want the most efficient 3 dice attack in the game then Heroic, Perceptive Copilot and Advanced Optics. The only dice combination to not result in 3 hits is a double blank Heroicly rerolled into double blank. 

 

Heroic, Perceptive Copilot and Pattern Analyzer opens up the dial massively on the other hand, at the cost of some dice efficiency. 

Why do you need PC?

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6 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Why would you even bother with crew? At 30 points for heroic, he's probably the greatest bargain in the game!

For 30 points he's is a neat bargain. For 42 points he becomes legitimately impossible to kill unless you massively focus fire him at which point he also did his job because he is a cheap distraction. 

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I just used this combo last Monday and against yesterday (the Finn/Heroic/PerCo/AdvancedOptics build) and I would say he's not L'ulo good... He's better. L'ulo has to take a stress to alter his dice, and while he has a better dial and action economy, his attack is virtually guaranteed to be worse than Finn's, and he can't do stupid tricks on Defense like take a strain to add a focus result, spend focus to dodge the hit, then drop the strain at the end of the defense. In fact, that makes Finn harder to kill than L'ulo as well as harder hitting.

Yeah, Finn > L'ulo just about every time

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2 minutes ago, Eruletho said:

I just used this combo last Monday and against yesterday (the Finn/Heroic/PerCo/AdvancedOptics build) and I would say he's not L'ulo good... He's better. L'ulo has to take a stress to alter his dice, and while he has a better dial and action economy, his attack is virtually guaranteed to be worse than Finn's, and he can't do stupid tricks on Defense like take a strain to add a focus result, spend focus to dodge the hit, then drop the strain at the end of the defense. In fact, that makes Finn harder to kill than L'ulo as well as harder hitting.

Yeah, Finn > L'ulo just about every time

Fly Finn 10 times and see if you still agree with that statement. Lulo is objectively better without question. Better initiative, better dial, better chassis.

Most of Finns success is from opponents ignoring him and letting him run amok, which is great for a ship that cheap don't get me wrong. The 'cool combo' feeling will wear off eventually though. Especially once players realise he's quite easy to trap and 2 tap off the board.

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18 hours ago, Crimsonwarlock said:

So she. Building Finn in a pod, do you go Rose or perceptive copilot?  Assume you also have heroic.

I'd go PC to make him incredibly tanky against multiple shots.

 

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4 hours ago, BVRCH said:

Fly Finn 10 times and see if you still agree with that statement. Lulo is objectively better without question. Better initiative, better dial, better chassis.

Most of Finns success is from opponents ignoring him and letting him run amok, which is great for a ship that cheap don't get me wrong. The 'cool combo' feeling will wear off eventually though. Especially once players realise he's quite easy to trap and 2 tap off the board.

The Pattern Analyzer version which I prefer is surprisingly hard to trap. Also for you to kill him in 2 shots you need both shots to be range one, all 8 dice need to hit and Finn needs to roll below average and you still only barely manage to kill him. A blank blank into Heroic focus blank is still 2 evades two times in a row for Finn. And that pretty much the worst scenario. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Flurpy said:

The Pattern Analyzer version which I prefer is surprisingly hard to trap. Also for you to kill him in 2 shots you need both shots to be range one, all 8 dice need to hit and Finn needs to roll below average and you still only barely manage to kill him. A blank blank into Heroic focus blank is still 2 evades two times in a row for Finn. And that pretty much the worst scenario. 

Or you could dodge the shots altogether with Lulo. I'm not arguing Finn's efficiency in single dice rolls, and yeah on average he's only 1 damage or so each shot, but averages are only good on paper. He can last a while sure, but he also get dumped on due to its poor dial or a bad crit stack. If your tactical use for him is to soak a round of shots sure that makes sense. However I still maintain that Lulo is a vastly more versatile option for about the same price.

At 30pts yeah Finn can't be beat for bang for buck, I'm just saying once you start stacking upgrades on him and the points start increasing, there are quite a few better options overall. For 40pts I'd still take Greer with AO.

Edited by BVRCH

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I think we are in agreement here. If you want an arc dodger, Lulo is the better choice. If you want an distraction Finn is a better choice. At 42 he is the cheapest in my 4 ship list so tanking two rounds of shooting is all I ask of him. 

But just a slight point, putting PA on him opens up the dial gloriously. While he will never arc dodge like a A Wing, those hard ones, bank threes and k turn being done while still double focused makes him a knife fighters like no other for those points. 

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On ‎8‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 8:43 AM, Flurpy said:

If you want the most efficient 3 dice attack in the game then Heroic, Perceptive Copilot and Advanced Optics. The only dice combination to not result in 3 hits is a double blank Heroicly rerolled into double blank. 

19 hours ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

Why do you need PC?

 

So you can modify blanks (via advanced optics) and focus results

  • Blank/Blank - Add Blank, Heroic reroll.
  • Blank/Focus - Add Focus, spend Focus (1) normally, spend Focus (2) on Advanced Optics
  • Blank/Hit - Add Focus, spend Focus (1) normally, spend Focus (2) on Advanced Optics
  • Focus/Focus - Add Focus, spend Focus (1) normally OR Add Blank, spend Focus (1) normally, spend Focus (2) on Advanced Optics (if you don't want strain)
  • Focus/Hit - Add Focus, spend Focus (1) normally OR Add Blank, spend Focus (1) normally, spend Focus (2) on Advanced Optics (if you don't want strain)
  • Hit/Hit - Add Blank, spend Focus (1) on Advanced Optics

 

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What about Finn with Stealth Device? Is that a viable way to increase Finns defensive output, or will it be bad due to shutting down Heroic most of the time?

N`Kata

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I ran into Finn on the weekend, equipped with Heroic and C3-P0, as part of a list featuring Poe (Heroic), Lu'lo and Tallie (both with Heroic, and I think Tallie had Prockets too).

I'll admit to bringing an unconventional list (SuperConcInquistors, GO!), but I decided to shift fire onto the Pod after my opponent had his other ships hang back (I Jendon-locked two Inquisitors onto one of the A-Wings in the first turn). Even with Heroic and two Calculate tokens, Finn could not handle the weight of fire which came his way. What sealed his fate was two revealed damage cards (go Concussion Missiles!) which caused him to be ionised and lose the ability to calculate. This then led him to bump into Jendon and get finished off by an Inquisitor.

Finn might be a Big Deal, but he's flying a tiny ship which cannot afford to lose it's actions. If anything disrupts them, he's a dead man (I knew I should've brought a Jamming Beam with me!).

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2 hours ago, AceDogbert said:

I ran into Finn on the weekend, equipped with Heroic and C3-P0, as part of a list featuring Poe (Heroic), Lu'lo and Tallie (both with Heroic, and I think Tallie had Prockets too).

I'll admit to bringing an unconventional list (SuperConcInquistors, GO!), but I decided to shift fire onto the Pod after my opponent had his other ships hang back (I Jendon-locked two Inquisitors onto one of the A-Wings in the first turn). Even with Heroic and two Calculate tokens, Finn could not handle the weight of fire which came his way. What sealed his fate was two revealed damage cards (go Concussion Missiles!) which caused him to be ionised and lose the ability to calculate. This then led him to bump into Jendon and get finished off by an Inquisitor.

Finn might be a Big Deal, but he's flying a tiny ship which cannot afford to lose it's actions. If anything disrupts them, he's a dead man (I knew I should've brought a Jamming Beam with me!).

But that's the point of Finn. Hes 42 points, and you had to point your entire list at him. I think perspective is important, the fact that people are even debating how to handle a 42 point ship speaks volumes of his use. He's still the least important part of a 4 ship list realistically. 

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40 points is too much for Finn, in my opinion. I get that you can kick his offense into overdrive, but frankly his offense is Good Enough as long as he has a token, and the chassis is just not flexible enough to carry a list.

Heroic + one upgrade. Pattern Analyzer makes him a knife fighter and helps him attract shots in an attempt to strip his one and only token; Threepio gives him flexibility and makes him a reasonable support piece; PerCop is for Maximum Effort. Keep him skinny so no one wants to shoot at him, run him alongside something scarier, and he punches *way* above his weight. Going up above 40 doesn't give you enough return for taking up more of your list, and you make him a juicier target for being focused down. Finn's good but he's not tanking an entire enemy list by himself, and he's very vulnerable to being blocked or dodged. I wouldn't go up above that unless I really didn't have anywhere better to spend the points.

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, Flurpy said:

But that's the point of Finn. Hes 42 points, and you had to point your entire list at him. I think perspective is important, the fact that people are even debating how to handle a 42 point ship speaks volumes of his use. He's still the least important part of a 4 ship list realistically. 

I think the issue that my opponent had was that Finn moved before everything else on the field, while my Inquisitors were practically impossible to block and could force the rest of his list to avoid falling into range of the missiles; I think my opponent was too focused on keeping his A-Wings clear of the missiles rather than closing to short range and engaging (a knife-fight which their mobile arcs could have caused serious headaches with). By the time that he did engage, I had placed damage cards onto Finn, which then were revealed when Lu'lo got a face full of Concussion Missiles while stressed. 

EDIT: I really wish I had pictures of the board, as it would help explain the engagements; due to the angle of attack (and Jendon blocking one of the exits) his A-wings had to move into an area where all of my arcs were pointing, and due to the SuperInq's ability to barrel roll back into a speed-one bank, I could maintain that coverage without moving too far forwards. That gave me two rounds of fairly optimal Concussion Missile firing for little response.

Edited by AceDogbert

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