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Kieransi

Ship of the Day: Starfortress

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So the Starfortress. Yes this is my usual image-heavy content-lite post to get conversation started. 

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Also known as the MG-100 starfortress or the B/SF-17, it kinda looks like a B-17 bomber in space I guess

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Its only movie appearance is quickly exploding in a giant inferno and destroying an entire star destroyer with it, but it's a pretty cool looking ship and does a lot in the extended universe. So what does it do in this game?

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Being able to attack in all directions is good. It's the only ship to date with three arcs. It can also do some crazy double-tap shenanigans with two gunner slots.

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Trajectorizing bombs is good (and there's also some pilots who can do insane bomb shenanigans, which I'm unsure why they haven't been flown much so far)

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Reinforce is good. Vennie can double-reinforce (sort of). This thing is harder to burn down than you'd think, and has a ton of hitpoints.

Things it's not good at:

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Running

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Not exploding

I think I've seen some games with starfortresses go poorly because of this, but then again....

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On paper and from my limited exposure on the mat, it seems like a good ship. I know Vennie gets flown a bit, and is quite a tank.... but have you tried the others? Lots of ships are just bad but are you sure you can write this one off or does it just so happen that this is good, and just a thing nobody has tried yet?

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Great post for this slow Friday afternoon!  I don't fly resistance, but this seems like a ship just lying in wait for epic to get here.  Three of these seem like they would be just as good as a huge ship, but need fighter support.  

 

Unrelated to the ship on the table, but did anyone else ever realize that Tallie is the one who orders the bombers to fly close together on their approach toward the dreadnought?  Their proximity to each other is what made them such easy prey as several crashed right into each other (or had 1 tie fighter fly through both).  Shouldn't that count against her hero status?  WHY DOES NO ONE TALK ABOUT THIS?

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1 minute ago, Whalers on the moon said:

Great post for this slow Friday afternoon!  I don't fly resistance, but this seems like a ship just lying in wait for epic to get here.  Three of these seem like they would be just as good as a huge ship, but need fighter support.  

 

Unrelated to the ship on the table, but did anyone else ever realize that Tallie is the one who orders the bombers to fly close together on their approach toward the dreadnought?  Their proximity to each other is what made them such easy prey as several crashed right into each other (or had 1 tie fighter fly through both).  Shouldn't that count against her hero status?  WHY DOES NO ONE TALK ABOUT THIS?

Because the scene is awful and it is better to just not talk about it at all. 

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I'm hoping FFG re-release this ship in the next year since it really seems (thematically) like it should be on Epic tables.  (I'm not sure it won't just blow up even faster there, but I guess that's what it did in the movies).

It does have two new toys to play with as a bomber - the Electro-Proton Bomb and Delayed Fuses.  It just doesn't seem like bombers in general are doing well and this ship has never worked well as a bomber with the cost of outfitting it.  It's best build seems to be double-tap Vennie, which I liked to pair with three A-wings.  It's a very fun list to play and feels thematic.

I only own one of these and would probably pick up one or two more as part of a re-release.  It would be nice to see them do the blue paint scheme next time and maybe a moving turret.  I know this ship has scale issues like some others, but I'd rather this one stay the same size for the sake of people wanting to fly new ones with old ones.

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5 minutes ago, Whalers on the moon said:

Great post for this slow Friday afternoon!  I don't fly resistance, but this seems like a ship just lying in wait for epic to get here.  Three of these seem like they would be just as good as a huge ship, but need fighter support.  

 

Unrelated to the ship on the table, but did anyone else ever realize that Tallie is the one who orders the bombers to fly close together on their approach toward the dreadnought?  Their proximity to each other is what made them such easy prey as several crashed right into each other (or had 1 tie fighter fly through both).  Shouldn't that count against her hero status?  WHY DOES NO ONE TALK ABOUT THIS?

 

2 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

Because the scene is awful and it is better to just not talk about it at all. 

^ WW2 tight formation flying vs fast fighters with guided missiles = really bad idea. Really stupidly bad because they didn't even get the formation right...

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I have had fun with Finch and Vennie. Vennie is the most durable of the bunch and Finch gives so many options. Been wanting to try out Edon a bit, and he gets some new options when clusters are rereleased. Cat seems interesting but that requires 2 to make her work well.

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Just now, KiraYamatoSF said:

I have had fun with Finch and Vennie. Vennie is the most durable of the bunch and Finch gives so many options. Been wanting to try out Edon a bit, and he gets some new options when clusters are rereleased. Cat seems interesting but that requires 2 to make her work well.

Delayed Fuses

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4 minutes ago, KiraYamatoSF said:

...huh...

To the drawing board I go folks.

And don't come back until you have something to report, soldier!

Er... wait... I think I just gave you permission to leave and never come back... no, that's not what I want at all...

 

I'm sorely unimpressed by the bomber. It just doesn't feel like it has a place in a dogfight... which, really, it shouldn't. Maybe it'll shine in epic missions or something, but it sort of feels thematic and pointless to bring to a standard 200 point game. I don't think I've ever got past the paper stage on a list with one, which is a shame. I've never used my bomber, ever.

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I had a *lot* of success with these in 1.0.  Which makes them desperately disappointing in 2.0.  I have put in fairly solid table time with these guys, running everything from a Vennie gunship to two Cobalt gunships, fully loaded Finch and Edon, stripped-down Finch, loaded or stripped Teene, with any combination of one or two RZ2's or T-70's.  And man.  Any Ace-style play just eats them for lunch - which is generally true of any large base right now, but still.  By the time you build one out to make an effective gunship, to make use of all those firing arcs and so forth, the thing is a bloated whale of a target that still just burns in about three rounds of fire, and doesn't leave you many points for an escort.  The general de-powering of bombs hasn't helped their case, nor did the nerfing of their already limited dial, the increase in the cost of Ablative Plating, Trajectory Simulator, etc, etc.  Naked, they are a little pricey.  Built out in any useful fashion, and they're insane.

Standard 200 point match, they're just...not good enough.  You want a bomber with bombs?  Take a Punisher.  You want a gunship?  Take a X-wing.  Or anything else.  Now, Epic finally drops, and I hope there might be something to work with.  Except that any of the "capital" ships are just going to burn these guys down without even hardly trying.  I had been hoping that the Transport might have something to make them sing, but if it's there, I haven't found it yet.  Or maybe it's just that my local meta has learned too well how to counter them due to my frequent play.

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Posted (edited)

Im generally pretty bad at counting to 200...the Starfort makes it seem even more difficult. 

Poe Dameron — T-70 X-Wing 68
R4 Astromech 2
Integrated S-Foils 0
Black One 2
Ship Total: 72
Half Points: 36 Threshold: 4
   
Finch Dallow — MG-100 StarFortress 64
Paige Tico 7
Proton Bombs 5
Seismic Charges 3
Delayed Fuses 1
Ship Total: 80
Half Points: 40 Threshold: 6
   
L’ulo L’ampar — RZ-2 A-Wing 43
Heroic 1
Advanced Optics 4
Ship Total: 48
Half Points: 24 Threshold: 2


Paige Bob does some pretty crazy things though, and that was before Delayed Fuses even. 

Edited by Boom Owl

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Posted (edited)

There's nothing wrong with the base chassis of the ship

What's wrong is the pricing 😕

Its very difficult to find a direct comparison because the bomber is a surprisingly unique amalgamation of arcs, stats, dial, and upgrades. Still, it's a slow, chunky, 12 health ship. I do not believe the initial asking price should be 56 points. The dial is TRASH by design; the ship oughta be cheaper to compensate

Id like to see it at 51 like the sith infiltrator (because you do NOT want to see four bombers on the table) 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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23 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

And don't come back until you have something to report, soldier!

Er... wait... I think I just gave you permission to leave and never come back... no, that's not what I want at all...

 

I'm sorely unimpressed by the bomber. It just doesn't feel like it has a place in a dogfight... which, really, it shouldn't. Maybe it'll shine in epic missions or something, but it sort of feels thematic and pointless to bring to a standard 200 point game. I don't think I've ever got past the paper stage on a list with one, which is a shame. I've never used my bomber, ever.

One idea

New Squadron

(57) Cat [MG-100 StarFortress]
(1) Delayed Fuses
(10) Trajectory Simulator
(3) Seismic Charges
(8) Veteran Turret Gunner
(5) Chewbacca
Points: 84

(36) Tallissan Lintra [RZ-2 A-wing]
(4) Advanced Optics
Points: 40

(36) Greer Sonnel [RZ-2 A-wing]
(4) Advanced Optics
Points: 40

(29) Finn [Resistance Transport Pod]
(1) Heroic
(6) C-3PO
Points: 36

Total points: 200

One idea. Can I come back now?

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10 minutes ago, KiraYamatoSF said:

One idea. Can I come back now?

I suppose it was never specified that it had to be a good idea. Sure, c'mon back.

That bomber is so hard to work with... If you build up a good bomber, you don't have guns in the rest of your squad. The bomber dies, and your survivors are sad. I do wonder about a naked bomber... it's a lot of health, a 3 gun out the front and a pair of 2 gun dealieboppers that might scare droids or something. 56 doesn't seem horrible... outside the dial scenario.

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6 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

I suppose it was never specified that it had to be a good idea. Sure, c'mon back.

That bomber is so hard to work with... If you build up a good bomber, you don't have guns in the rest of your squad. The bomber dies, and your survivors are sad. I do wonder about a naked bomber... it's a lot of health, a 3 gun out the front and a pair of 2 gun dealieboppers that might scare droids or something. 56 doesn't seem horrible... outside the dial scenario.

Neither does 64 with Vet Tur Gun

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1 hour ago, Kieransi said:

 

On paper and from my limited exposure on the mat, it seems like a good ship. I know Vennie gets flown a bit, and is quite a tank.... but have you tried the others? Lots of ships are just bad but are you sure you can write this one off or does it just so happen that this is good, and just a thing nobody has tried yet?

 

The others tend to work better if there's at least one other bomb launcher/dropper in the fleet, which Resistance doesn't have a lot of.  Delayed Fuses does work to improve Cat, I think (though I haven't tried the list I made to test it), but the higher-initiative pilots are better with bomb shenanigans - Finch, particularly.  I think I could make a bit of a monster list with two StarFortresses, but I only have one.

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Posted (edited)

Can't imagine a piddly 2-die bowtie ever making the bomber a better gun platform than a t-70. Have to weigh arc coverage against an infinetly superior dial 

****, I could get Asty for the same cost as a Cobalt!

The only better "gun" platform would conceivably be Vennie because of that incredibly swanky ability. Super expensive, though 

Edited by ficklegreendice

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Posted (edited)

A docked ghost and barrage rockets are functionally VERY distinct from the bomber

The docked ghost is taking up the real estate of two ships; has two big arcs and one piddly arc (starfortress is the exact opposite)

Barrage rockets are barrage rockets; not primary weapons. If you dive into range 1 of a kwing's front arc, it literally can't shoot you. Don't try that against a starfort! (Ditto being in the front arc of a kwing without focus v a starfort without focus)

Edited by ficklegreendice

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As has been mentioned, they're T-70 priced naked, and named-Falcon priced when you start putting stuff on it.  I guess I could try it, but a Taj Sim/Proton/Fuse Cat is the same price as naked Rey.  Hard to believe that's better.

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Played against my mates a reasonable amount, I think all of the pilots... maybe.

It's... not bad. But it is horrendously expensive and hamstrings a list somewhat. 

I often find it safe to ignore until I have time to whittle it down. Last time I played against one, not my mates, I parked a SuperInq behind it once the bombs were gone and just slowly, inevitably wrecked it. InVenniecible does not like Panicked Pilot.

However, in a game that has turned a little south and become tight, because it's a ton of points, both cost and health, if it gets to the end game still fairly robust it can be kind of a pain. Edon with Proxies can be quite awkward to deal with. Generally though, if that happens, it doesn't have enough help left to carry a win.

Because it's almost certainly gonna  2 hard again.

Looks cool though.

And that's a great OP.

 

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Looking at it, if I had to play a 300 point game with at least one ship that''s 90+ points and still have 200 points of a "normal" list, then I would bring the big beastie out to play. As it is, with only 200 points to work with, I'm not putting half of it into something that isn't going to pull its weight and just get burned down off the board since it has all the maneuverability of the Death Star 

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Posted (edited)

I just don’t like ‘em.  I wanted B-Wings to finally have more than 12 seconds of screen time.  Instead I got Derp-Wings and the most epic Tie-kamikaze multi-kill ever.  

Sometimes I’m unbelievably petty.  And in X-Wing, I dislike them and don’t use them on principle.

Edited by It’s One Of Ours

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