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Schanez

1v1 200p Rebel Alliance vs Galactic Empire - advice request

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Posted (edited)

Hi there!

I am a rookie player and was wondering, if you wonderful people could help me somewhat. I only recently got into X-Wing and am already having a blast with this game. But since I don't have many people to play with, my main opponent is my older brother. Which means we are only using the miniatures that I already have. And since the local store is hosting tournaments for 200 point squadrons, I was interested in doing some of those battles. But due to my lacking knowledge of the system, I decided to come here, asking for help.

I have in my possession the Core Set (2 x Tie/ln + 1 x T-65) as well as a T-65 Expansion, 2 x Tie/ln, a BTL-A4 and finally a Tie/Advanced X1. Of course with all the relevant cards. I have attempted to assemble something, that would allow me and my brother to do a 200 vs 200 fight. We did a few 100 vs 100, but those were leaning so hard towards X-Wing dominance, I decided to ask for advice in creating the 200 point squadrons. This is what I have so far.

 

Galactic Empire (198 points total):

  1. Tie/Advanced X1 - Ved Foslo: Homing Missiles, Munitions Failsafe, Fire-Control System, Outmaneuver - 59 points
  2. Tie/ln - Iden Versio: Elusive - 43 points
  3. Tie/ln - Del Meeko: Elusive - 33 points
  4. Tie/ln - Gideon Hask: Predator - 32 points
  5. Tie/ln - Seyn Marana: Marksmanship - 31 points

Rebel Alliance (200 points total):

  1. BTL-A4 Y-Wing - "Dutch"Vander: R4 Astromech, Seismic Charges, Ion Cannon Turret, Veteran Turret Gunner, Expert Handling - 60 points
  2. T-65 X-Wing - Wedge Antilles: R2 Astromech, Proton Torpedoes, Munitions Failsafe, Marksmanship - 74 points
  3. T-65 X-Wing - Garven Dreis: R2 Astromech, Proton Torpedoes, Munitions Failsafe, Marksmanship - 66 points

 

I am just curious if those two setups will be somewhat ballanced against each other? I feel like when we played 2 x T-65 with Veteran Reds against 2 x Tie/ln and Tie/Adv X1, the Ties just dropped like flies without even touching the X-Wings all that much. No matter who played which side. If you have advice, how to make the two squadrons more balanced against each other, I would be happy to hear it.

PS. Cards and stuff is not much of an obstacle, if I can read it up in the app, I can play it.

PPS.

An alternative I have been considering, was to swap Tie/Adv x1 for a "Howlrunner", but that would require getting another Tie/ln.

Edited by Schanez

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Rebel 5’s

(41) Norra Wexley [BTL-A4 Y-wing]
(5) Ion Cannon Turret
(8) Veteran Turret Gunner
(6) Afterburners
(2) R4 Astromech
(2) Expert Handling
Points: 64

(62) Luke Skywalker [T-65 X-wing]
(0) Servomotor S-foils
(5) R2-D2
(13) Proton Torpedoes
Points: 80

(48) Thane Kyrell [T-65 X-wing]
(0) Servomotor S-foils
(1) Crack Shot
Points: 49

Total points: 193

This is A fairly hard hitting list. With Luke/proton, and a double tapping Norra. Thane is (while I played it) a good damage sponge. To draw attention away from the hard hitters. And when ignored. His ability is very destructive. Plus R2-D2 can keep Luke alive for even longer than his ability could by itself. Making him the primary end game piece. 

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Posted (edited)

For imperiales I would try this:

199 points

Darth Vader — TIE Advanced x1 67
Afterburners 6
Ship Total: 73
 
“Howlrunner” — TIE/ln Fighter 40
Ship Total: 40
 
Iden Versio — TIE/ln Fighter 40
Ship Total: 40
 
Academy Pilot — TIE/ln Fighter 23
Ship Total: 23
 
Academy Pilot — TIE/ln Fighter 23
Ship Total: 23

Afterburners on Vader let you do boost actions that can be linked to other actions using his ability (in general Vader is quite good) then if you fly the 4 TIEs in formation, which you have to get used to, they will have the offensive bonus from Howlrunner and a bit of survivability from Iden, just remember to put higher initiatives behind in the formation or else you will bump with your own ships. 

Vader can flank in the meantime. 

You can watch this video for formation flying, which is quite nice (about first edition, but the movement is the same so...) 

Anyway, as a quick rule for 4 ships you can place them in your initial area at the 4 corners of a square, separated by a movement rule's width. This way, if you choose the same maneuvers with all of them and are precise enough while moving them they shouldn't overlap. Also remember as I said to put higher initiatives behind.

I hope this helps 😃

Edited by xanatos135

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So I tried for thematic and FUN! 

Rebels

Bro V Bro Rebel

(55) Wedge Antilles [T-65 X-wing]
(0) Servomotor S-foils
(4) R2 Astromech
(5) Hull Upgrade
Points: 64

(62) Luke Skywalker [T-65 X-wing]
(0) Servomotor S-foils
(5) R2-D2
(3) Heightened Perception
(13) Proton Torpedoes
Points: 83

(40) "Dutch" Vander [BTL-A4 Y-wing]
(5) Ion Cannon Turret
(8) Veteran Turret Gunner
Points: 53

Total points: 200

 

Empire 

 

Bro V Bro Imps

(67) Darth Vader [TIE Advanced x1]
(2) Fire-Control System
(5) Sense
Points: 74

(40) "Howlrunner" [TIE/ln Fighter]
Points: 40

(40) Iden Versio [TIE/ln Fighter]
Points: 40

(23) Academy Pilot [TIE/ln Fighter]
Points: 23

(23) Academy Pilot [TIE/ln Fighter]
Points: 23

Total points: 200

Okay, didn’t pick the more thematic Vader wingmen, but have to have howl and Iden. 

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Thanks a lot for the advice! I will try the Vader and Luke list and we will see how things go. Game is lots of fun, but learning the rules is difficult. We forget about stress a lot. Especially from obstacles.

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What would you say, for a 5 x Tie/LN (199 points total) squadron with:

  1. Howlrunner: Elusive + Shield Upgrade (51 points)
  2. Del Meeko: Elusive + Shield Upgrade (41 points)
  3. Iden Version: Elusive (43 points)
  4. Gideon Hask: Elusive (33 points)
  5. Seyn Marana: Marksmanship (31 points)

Stick in formation for the first engagement, Howlrunner in the middle. Idea is to set up Seyn and Iden in the front row, then Gideon, Howlrunner and Del in the second one. If you space the ships properly, you can execute every manouver on the Tie Dial without bumping, while maintaining formation for Howlrunner, Iden Versio and surely Del Meeko. I put Shields on Howlrunner and Del Meeko because I find their abilities the most useful for the squadron overall. Seyn Marana has Marksmanship for a higher chance to force that precious damage card on a baddie, activating the other skills. Howlrunner is Pilot Skill 5, so he is kept in the second row, to prevent fuss with maneuvers.

The only problem I can think of, is not being able to stack damage cards on ships with shields.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Schanez said:

What would you say, for a 5 x Tie/LN (199 points total) squadron with:

  1. Howlrunner: Elusive + Shield Upgrade (51 points)
  2. Del Meeko: Elusive + Shield Upgrade (41 points)
  3. Iden Version: Elusive (43 points)
  4. Gideon Hask: Elusive (33 points)
  5. Seyn Marana: Marksmanship (31 points)

Stick in formation for the first engagement, Howlrunner in the middle. Idea is to set up Seyn and Iden in the front row, then Gideon, Howlrunner and Del in the second one. If you space the ships properly, you can execute every manouver on the Tie Dial without bumping, while maintaining formation for Howlrunner, Iden Versio and surely Del Meeko. I put Shields on Howlrunner and Del Meeko because I find their abilities the most useful for the squadron overall. Seyn Marana has Marksmanship for a higher chance to force that precious damage card on a baddie, activating the other skills. Howlrunner is Pilot Skill 5, so he is kept in the second row, to prevent fuss with maneuvers.

The only problem I can think of, is not being able to stack damage cards on ships with shields.

Well, in my opinion putting shield upgrade in the most fragile ship available (appart from vulture droids) and having to pay also an extra for the 3 green dice seems like too much. I don't think it is worth on TIEs, I am even not sure it is worth on Soontir Fel with the interceptor, so here...

Also, although I like a lot flying inferno squadron (very thematic) i am not sure if those 4 TIEs + howlrunner will make for a competitive list. I have tried 4 TIEs with a phantom, with a decimator, with a reaper... All of those lists look like better options. At the end of the day despite their really good pilot abilities these guys have only 3 hull (plus 1 extra if you pay a lot more for them).

Here, if you don't include upgrades appart from marksmanship on Seyn Marana you could even fit an extra academy pilot (6 ships now) and you would have 6 points left wich you could use for elusive on 2 ships if you want or any other cheap upgrades like crackshot. 

Probably you don't have 6 TIEs anyway but I really think 6 is a competitive list while 5 would be... meh, stacking too many points on a fragile chassis. 

The fun thing is maybe I am totally wrong and you fly the list well and end up with good results =). At the end the most important part is to fly something you like, so try it and see how it goes, just be aware about the whole "stacking too many upgrades on feagile ships" thing. 

 

Edited by xanatos135

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10 hours ago, xanatos135 said:

Also, although I like a lot flying inferno squadron (very thematic) i am not sure if those 4 TIEs + howlrunner will make for a competitive list.

The thing is, I don't need it to be competitive. I just want a more or less balanced encounter between Galactic Empire and Rebel Alliance with the ships I have. Which currently consists of 5xTie/ln and 1xTie/Advanced x1 as well as 3xX-Wing T-65 and 1xY-Wing BTL-A4. My brother is planning to dive into the Scums, but for now its all we have to play with.

Available Rebel Pilots I have are:

T-65

  1. Luke Skywalker
  2. Jek Porkins
  3. Red Squadron Veteran
  4. Blue Squadron Escort
  5. Wedge Antilles
  6. Thane Kyrell
  7. Garven Dreis
  8. Biggs Darklighter

BTL-A4

  1. Horton Salm
  2. Norra Wexley
  3. "Dutch" Vander
  4. Evaan Verlaine
  5. Gold Squadron Veteran
  6. Grey Squadron Bomber

Tie/ln

  1. Iden Versio
  2. Valen Rudor
  3. "Night Beast"
  4. "Howlrunner"
  5. "Mauler" Mithel
  6. Gideon Hask
  7. "Scourge" Skutu
  8. Seyn Marana
  9. Del Meeko
  10. "Wampa"
  11. Black Squadron Ace
  12. Obsidian Squadron Pilot
  13. Academy Pilot

Tie/Advanced x1

  1. Darth Vader
  2. Maarek Stele
  3. Ved Foslo
  4. Zertik Strom
  5. Storm Squadron Ace
  6. Tempest Squadron Pilot

That's all I have to play with. So far we have been flying a 100 points teams with 2xT-65 vs 2xTie/ln + 1xTie/Adv. But sadly whoever is flying the T-65s is just demolishing the Ties... The shields and hull points are too much for the ties to munch through fast enough. The lock action on a tie is almost always a "bye bye you squishy bastard" scenario. The best we managed to do with Ties, was to drop one X-Wing to 2 Hull points. The other remains with full HP.

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Well, I guess it is not so easy to balance both sides without trying to optimize them, but I get your point. The thing is, for what you say, empire seems to be struggling to beat rebels. If you build a 2 x-wing + y-wing, a 3 x-wing or a 3 x-wing +y-wing, which are the lists you can use for rebels they are probably going to be tougher than 5 TIE fighters, while 4 TIEs + TIE advanced will result in a more balanced fight I guess... Well just try it, as I say, maybe the five TIEs work fine, I gues it will depend on the list they are facing too 

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We had a fight yesterday with those squadrons:

Rebels: Wedge Antilles (R2 Astro), Luke Skywalker (R2-D2, Proton Torps, Instinctive Aim) and Norra Wexley (Ion Turret, Vet Turret gunner, Expert Handling) for 196 total

Empire: Maarek Stele (Cluster Missiles, FC System), Howlrunner (Elusive), Iden Versio, Del Meeko, Seyn Marana (Marksmanship) for 197 total.

I must say, if not for a super lucky Proton Torpedo shot from Luke into Tie/Adv followed with double tap with Primary and Turret from Norra at the very begining, I think Imperials would have won. As it stood, Rebels survived with Wedge on 1 Hull and Luke on 2. If all goes well, today we are swapping sides for a rematch.

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Posted (edited)
On ‎8‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 11:25 AM, Schanez said:

But sadly whoever is flying the T-65s is just demolishing the Ties... The shields and hull points are too much for the ties to munch through fast enough. The lock action on a tie is almost always a "bye bye you squishy bastard" scenario. The best we managed to do with Ties, was to drop one X-Wing to 2 Hull points. The other remains with full HP.

I can see that. Theoretically at 100 points, you could pack 4 TIE fighters, or field Iden Versio for a '1-up life' on one of them. But yeah....2 TIE/ln plus a TIE/x1.....

I'd probably stick to lower cost pilots. You don't really have the space to play with numbers or the better pilots at a 100 point limit, especially if you want to squeeze in a TIE/x1 advanced.

You might lean in to considering the TIEs expendable; go with two cheap Academy Pilots and then a Ruthless Maarek Stele.

Block the X-wing(s) and use Ruthless to cause extra damage to them at a cost of some collateral damage to the TIE.

On ‎8‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 4:32 PM, Schanez said:

Galactic Empire (198 points total):

  1. Tie/Advanced X1 - Ved Foslo: Homing Missiles, Munitions Failsafe, Fire-Control System, Outmaneuver - 59 points
  2. Tie/ln - Iden Versio: Elusive - 43 points
  3. Tie/ln - Del Meeko: Elusive - 33 points
  4. Tie/ln - Gideon Hask: Predator - 32 points
  5. Tie/ln - Seyn Marana: Marksmanship - 31 points

If I was plotting a list, I'd bin off the Homing Missiles and Munitions Failsafe, and drop Afterburners on Ved instead. This will help a lot when getting him into flanking position, and be very useful when paired with his pilot ability - using his pilot ability to stomp on the gas will take you from a speed 2 bank to a speed 3 bank plus boost, for example, or talon roll or koiogran plus boost - and still have your 'persistant' lock from Fire Control System.

 

Edited by Magnus Grendel

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

I can see that. Theoretically at 100 points, you could pack 4 TIE fighters, or field Iden Versio for a '1-up life' on one of them. But yeah....2 TIE/ln plus a TIE/x1.....

I'd probably stick to lower cost pilots. You don't really have the space to play with numbers or the better pilots at a 100 point limit, especially if you want to squeeze in a TIE/x1 advanced.

You might lean in to considering the TIEs expendable; go with two cheap Academy Pilots and then a Ruthless Maarek Stele.

Block the X-wing(s) and use Ruthless to cause extra damage to them at a cost of some collateral damage to the TIE.

If I was plotting a list, I'd bin off the Homing Missiles and Munitions Failsafe, and drop Afterburners on Ved instead. This will help a lot when getting him into flanking position, and be very useful when paired with his pilot ability - using his pilot ability to stomp on the gas will take you from a speed 2 bank to a speed 3 bank plus boost, for example, or talon roll or koiogran plus boost - and still have your 'persistant' lock from Fire Control System.

 

We moved to up to 200 points battles. But thank you for the information. I am gathering some additional models from some friends that moved to other factions. So we can do a proper Tie Swarm game. The plan was:

  1. Howlrunner - Swarm Tactics
  2. Iden Versio
  3. Del Meeko
  4. Gideon Hask
  5. Seyn Marana - Marksmanship
  6. Academy Pilot

YASB 2.0

I am tinkering with something for Rebels, having three X-Wings and a Y-Wing to play with. Wedge is quite nasty, especially if you slot Cluster Missiles on him against the swarm. (Edit: which you cannot do, as T-65s have only a torpedo slot...)

Edited by Schanez

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