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187-Leon

Moralo Theocrafting - Maximum Trigger / Activation

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1 hour ago, ovinomanc3r said:

The match got resolved on round 2 by a miscalculation. 

I thought to swap Dengar in and Tempest and Black out but that won't fix anything. Without the escort Dengar will die the first and the it will be the same. I could hide Dengar at my table side but then I couple of Lambdas may die instead. I thought a version with Chireneau, which will keep the escort AND the movement going on. Chireneau is expensive though, so more changes were needed.

 

I'm happy I loose. Not something definitive, but it seems Sloane archetypes will do really ok against Moralo without being invested against him. If that's enough to keep him far from wiping out through tournaments I dunno yet.

Mistakes or miscalcutaions are deadly on Moralo. Way more than on any other fleet.

Instead of Dengar i would suggest to try a Jumpmaster with 1-2 Reserve Hangar Bays on the Gozanti.

And yes, Sloane is by far the best answer for Moralo. But try a fleet without squadrons. It cannot be the right way to play either Sloane or Moralo. Because all other are not working.

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On 11/26/2019 at 3:18 PM, Tokra said:

You are right. Moralo is fine the way he is, and does not need a fix 😉😄. If he remains this way, i know at least what fleet i am playing for the next few tournaments. 👍

I'm fine with this if Yavaris gets un-nerfed

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1 hour ago, Drasnighta said:

Regional/Prime Tracking seems to suggest its Hardly Broken.


 

Early Early days, people are still learning him. But whatever world you're in with 2 blue 2 black anti squad max of what 17 attacks, that is verging on broken. Otherwise Yavaris (limited way more by point cost/range/buying the squads) should be brought back? After all when upgrades and squads are factored in they come out at roughly a similar price. One is more anti-ship yes and I'm not arguing it should be un-nerfed just pointing out the similarity in both. 

 

With the Starhawk really changing rebel ship game, the onager changing all previous held rules on range, and the new salvo token, the game meta as a whole is about to shift massively. So I wouldn't be taking any data too seriously for the next few months while we deal with this virus and then start seeing the new stuff in play after a good couple months of quarantine testing 

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When someone other than Tokra is getting 17 attacks out of him, I’ll consider it more than panicked theory crafting.

When someone is routinely getting traction out if it.

When someone is routinely winning with it against more than an unprepared crowd.

when someone is relying on more than pure matchups to win with it.

 

Because anecdotally, I saw it come out at my local regional and not make top half.

There is certainly a lot of panic and theirycradt around it.

but it’s actual state of play on the tabletop is often far, far, far from ideal for it, unless you’re able to precisely judge movement in advance to millimeters, AND your opponent lets you.

 

its like saying that Yavaris is going to give you the perfect hit crits because you’ll always have Norra , Toryn and keyan in place fir maximum danage....  sure, it’s a possibility. And a nice one.  But replicating it on the table isn’t always going to plan.

 

Plus, the ignorance of laying the blame *really* tics me off.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

Plus, the ignorance of laying the blame *really* tics me off.

What he means is stop blaming playtesters, changes happen that playtesters have no control over.

Ultimately I agree with Dras. I'm only going to be concerned by it when it actually wins consistently. Everybody remember 2 ship and how it was supposed to sweep worlds?

Oh right. It tried and died. Why? Because it was figured out and prepared for, just like Moralo will be.

Edited by Karneck

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I've tried him. I didn't get a great success due to playing against the same Sloane list every tournament and only getting small victories.

The first drawback is that it's really hard to play with the precision required by Moralo. And above anything else the time restrictions.

Once you get enough practice there is not much room your opponent may do beyond playing strong alpha strikes. But the level you need is really really top.

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On 4/3/2020 at 7:18 PM, Karneck said:

What he means is stop blaming playtesters, changes happen that playtesters have no control over.

Who's doing that? Sounds like Dras took my criticism of Moralo and the new ships personally.

For someone who reads a lot on the forums surprised he misread my post then.

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1 minute ago, The Jabbawookie said:

Not you, Beefcake a couple posts up.

Ah, this wave (plus it's faq) is defiantly more NPE'y then all others though..

The starhawk that can drop peoples speeds to min 0, onagers that can shoot outside of normal range (and that you can fit 3 in 1 list). A squadron who can shoot (max 17times) when tokens move aided by chiri etc. Salvo has hurt MSU even more than it was already hurting. People find it fun now, it'll get boring to face soon enough 

Raddus' new ability combined with Profundity for near 1-4 range is seriously approaching broken, its not fun to play with, its not fun to play against.*

I wouldn't mind an Armada 2.0 after Clone Wars, with upgrade points becoming fluid like in X-Wing generals like Tarkin can be dropped in price, to be useful etc and other ships/upgrades can be kept in check. Because this wave/faq brought way more questions than it did answers imo. Just feels like they sat down and thought how much cheese can we pump out.

 

*This is Raddus max drop range from a MC75 with Profundity. (Profundity can also overlap squadrons (unlike raddus himself) making it nigh impossible to stop the drop). Played NuRaddus 10 times, won 9 times and 1 6-5 because it was my friends 3rd/4th time facing him and I shot goz's over combat ships. Facing this even just once a week will be enough to turn new players off this game.AN1uPho.jpg

Distances are all correct just ships round wrong way as picture was taken post game. (75 and liberty should be swapped otherwise its distance 1, then 1-2).

 

I mean surely someone tests all this? Even the big FAQ changes like Raddus?

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, EbonHawk said:

Ah, this wave (plus it's faq) is defiantly more NPE'y then all others though..

Hold up.

Wave I: Pre-nerf Rhymer, Demolisher quadruple tap, Yavaris Part I.

Wave II: Pre-nerf Rieekan, Ackbar (yes, he drew complaints.)  Yavaris Part II: The Yavarining.

Wave III: Lifeboats, flotilla spam.  Tabling becomes a fever dream. Yavaris Part III: Seriously Guys, Just Stop It.

Wave IV: Okay, this one is fine.

Wave V: Relay from across the table, fish farm, MMJ.

Wave VI: Sloane, Squall, cheap alpha strikes with up to 34 blue dice, BTAvenger.

Wave VII: Pryce (and by extension 2-ship), pre-nerf Raddus.

Wave ?: Ravager, my personal white whale.

Waves that produce something broken are the norm.  People hate or have hated everything on this list.

Do you actually wish to imply this wave is the worst?  50 bucks (or pound equivalent) says there’s more extreme tournament data in the past than Moralo and post-nerf Raddus...

Edited by The Jabbawookie

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On 4/5/2020 at 7:40 PM, The Jabbawookie said:

Not you, Beefcake a couple posts up.

Yeah that's fair, I was being more tounge in cheek than attacking anyone but I can see how that doesn't translate well. 

I think its a dumb combination though regardless of how effective it proves to be in tournament results. 

The biggest thing for me is that I can't seriously imagine anyone coming up against that combo, getting destroyed by it and thinking that it reflects well on the game. I mean the things that have been flagges as bad enough to be properly nerfed in the past (Demo, Rhymer, TRCs, Reikan) all pale in comparion to this IMO. 

I guess if you can't understand my issue with a single squadron having 17 attacks in a turn then I probably can't explain it to you. 

 

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4 hours ago, beefcake4000 said:

Yeah that's fair, I was being more tounge in cheek than attacking anyone but I can see how that doesn't translate well. 

I think its a dumb combination though regardless of how effective it proves to be in tournament results. 

The biggest thing for me is that I can't seriously imagine anyone coming up against that combo, getting destroyed by it and thinking that it reflects well on the game. I mean the things that have been flagges as bad enough to be properly nerfed in the past (Demo, Rhymer, TRCs, Reikan) all pale in comparion to this IMO. 

I guess if you can't understand my issue with a single squadron having 17 attacks in a turn then I probably can't explain it to you. 

 

I can understand it, but I also measure it against the probability and possibility of it happening, and what my agency is.

theres also a measure if folk  I w on cause and effect. Moralo is one if the things keeping Fish Farm in line as well... 

But the arnada design space changes are typically conservative / ie, they’ll make changes when they feel they have to....  just after release with little corroborating data isn’t the time they’ll act. So there’s no point suggesting it, or stirring it up and making it a personal issue...

If the problem is outside of the mandated, regulated tournament system, then ban it there. Get rid of it for your casual play, boom, gone.

But within the tournament regulated system, it *so far*, is neither an issue, nor trending towards one... Many people are keeping an eye on it as is, inside of FFG and out, no doubt.

Which I guess means there’s kind of a difference between “Good for *the* game.”, “Good for *your* game.” And “Good for *my* game.” That there will inherently be little agreement on 😁 
 

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Also, can we stop it with the 17 attacks in a turn? When it's rather difficult to get more than 6-9 in a round when actually playing. And most players find it hard to get more than 3. 

It also requires significant investment and can fall quite flat when not given 2nd player.

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Posted (edited)

In my opinion, the main issue I have with Moralo is his effect on objectices. Objectives must give the second player an advantage to keep the game fair. With moralo existing some missions are extremely dangerous. For example Planetory Ion Cannons (a mission I really like to play) always gave a little advantage to the second player. Worst case was, when your oppenent had strategic squads taking your PIC out of play. But I won't add PIC to any of my fleets until Moralo exists this way. It is a dead mission 😞 Maybe it's a fun mission if you bring Moralo yourself 😄

Hyperspace assault might cause trouble too. But it shouldn't be that bad if you drop your set aside ship at the beginning of round 2 - and you will, I guess. Capture the VIP might still work - but when not saving the token, you'll be in trouble. Jamming Barrier is a no go - and yes, some people are really choosing this as yellow objectices. This are 33% of all yellow objectives out of play.

And now take a look at blue objectives on your own.

I don't say, this causes problems for my lists. I didn't use strategic squadrons before Moralo and have other missions. But I caught myself modifiying my fleet and thinking of PIC. My first thougth was, that it might help against MSU (one of the main threads for my fleet). My second thought was: NOOO, MORALO!

Edited by Goerrit

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On 4/8/2020 at 8:42 AM, Formynder4 said:

Also, can we stop it with the 17 attacks in a turn? When it's rather difficult to get more than 6-9 in a round when actually playing. And most players find it hard to get more than 3. 

It also requires significant investment and can fall quite flat when not given 2nd player.

No, no, I want to yell. Plus, I've had dinner with Dennis, so, i.... get to? That how it works?

Plus one time my cousin's brother in law's uncle who works at Nintendo did like 37 attacks with Moralo. In a row!

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For what it's worth, I got wrecked in the final of the Denver regional this year by Moralo.  I was using a variation on the Thrawn Chimaera Kuat / Demo / Arquitens / 2x Goz fleet and had a great success until this match, even against three Sloane fleets that day.  My opponent was a good player and I'm sure I made mistakes, but the general consensus of the remaining players at the shop was that Moralo pulling off 6-10 attacks on me per turn was pretty silly.  All he had to do was keep his quasar out of range and I was done for.  I think I remember him saying I did better than most because I managed to take a few ships out before finally getting tabled.  

It's a scary fleet because you can build out to 400 points without much consideration - if they take your objectives, they're screwed and there's no guarantee that you aren't running a viable objective for them if you give them first.

Not saying it's invincible but it wasn't the most fun fleet to play against (although chilling out for 5 minutes while all the squadron magic happened against me was nice breather :D).

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1 hour ago, flatpackhamster said:

It does sound a bit daft if you have to watch someone do 15 moves with the same piece.
Was that the intention of the game designers and playtesters? 

 

Have you played against a Grav Shift Proximity Mines Titus Rift Ambush Tagge meta?

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