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187-Leon

Moralo Theocrafting - Maximum Trigger / Activation

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Since the Rebllion in the rim cards are leaked, i thougt about the new most badass in Armada-Squadron-History - Moralo Eval. What do you think, how often can Moralo been triggered and/or activated in a perfect world and under absolutely perfect circumstances in 1 round? Lets start a small challange for this.

I will start with 21 x (trigger 20x / activate 1x) in the first round. In the second round only 20 x (trigger 19x / activate 1x)

 

And thats the absolut ridiculous list for it:

Defense: Hyperspace Assault (3x at the start of 2nd round)

 

Victory I (73) (FCT 4x + FCT 4x  = 8x)                                 
• Admiral Piett (22)
• Admiral Ozzel (2)
• Expanded Hangar Bay (5)
• Harrow (3)
• Fighter Coordination Team (3)
= 108 Points

Quasar Fire I (54) (Squall 3x)
• Squall (3)
= 57 Points

Interdictor Suppression Refit (90) (FCT 3 x)
• Fighter Coordination Team (3)
• Expanded Hangar Bay (5)
= 98 Points

Gozanti Cruisers (23) (stays in Hyperspace to trigger Token-movement at the start of the second round - Lol)
= 23 Points

Squadrons:
• Moralo Eval (22) (activate 1 x)
• 6 x Lambda Shuttle (90) (activate 6 x)
= 112 Points

Total Points: 398

 

Who can beat this? I really hope there will be a FAQ for this as soon as possible.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, 187-Leon said:

...

Defense: Hyperspace Assault (3x at the start of 2nd round)

...

Who can beat this? I really hope there will be a FAQ for this as soon as possible.

 

 

24 if you use Sensor Net as objective.
25 when you even use 7 Shuttles and not 6.
And countless more on the second, because the opponents ships will give you token movements as well.

 

But it is not the question about most activations. It is about a competitive list. And a bid of 398 and no Rhymer is not 😉
I made this list:
http://armadawarlords.hivelabs.solutions/view_list.php?token=215758&key=8b59e622177bd4fb466e9080e7345796
Only 18 on first turn, but a bid of 29 and Rhymer to negate the ship counter.

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1 hour ago, 187-Leon said:

 I really hope there will be a FAQ for this as soon as possible.

 

I doubt Moralo will need one. With a single brace and only two blue dice I could see Vader and Soontir shutting him down for a while if not entirely. I don't  see it mattering how many atracks you could get a round if you are dead after 7 thanks to Soontir. With 2.5 average damage a shot that is on average 4 attacks to kill Vader. Add two more TIE\ln to be used as grit blocker and Moralo would on average dead before he could move. Shoot the generics, Soontir gets him with the ability. If he shoots Soontir on average Soontir deals 1.25 on a swarm counter attack.  Assuming just a damage of 1 Soontir could survive while finishing off the remaining 3 damage. 

 

Add in counter strategic, killing or engaging the Lambdas and the counter Moralo options are fairly numerous. I could even see YOLO Alpha striking him with some interceptors under Howlrunner and flight controllers. 

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, Grathew said:

 

I doubt Moralo will need one. With a single brace and only two blue dice I could see Vader and Soontir shutting him down for a while if not entirely. I don't  see it mattering how many atracks you could get a round if you are dead after 7 thanks to Soontir. With 2.5 average damage a shot that is on average 4 attacks to kill Vader. Add two more TIE\ln to be used as grit blocker and Moralo would on average dead before he could move. Shoot the generics, Soontir gets him with the ability. If he shoots Soontir on average Soontir deals 1.25 on a swarm counter attack.  Assuming just a damage of 1 Soontir could survive while finishing off the remaining 3 damage. 

 

Add in counter strategic, killing or engaging the Lambdas and the counter Moralo options are fairly numerous. I could even see YOLO Alpha striking him with some interceptors under Howlrunner and flight controllers. 

But you did notice that he can move and attack each time a token is moved and has grit? He can just move to Vader (from a distance far outside your range), kill him (without Sontir in range), and just get out again.
The VSD and the Quasar can move/attack Moralo 9 times in one activation. This is more than enough to go in, kill Vader, and get out again. And not to mention that he could do last/first. 

He will get an errata. Not because he is unbeatable or something. Because his whole mechanic is total against anything that is smart and because it is total boring. In this current form, you need a Moralo List or a counter Moralo list. Really good meta.
And these lists are just the beginning, theory crafting if you want. How about only 4 shuttles, and the remaining points in support for Moralo and get intel for the shuttles? Ohh, you cannot attack 20 times anymore in one turn. Only 15 times...
- you don``'t have counter squadrons? Dead
- you don`'t have a bid of 30? Dead
- you don't know about Moralo (casual play!)? Dead
- You have a token objective? Dead.
- and, just because i have to mention it. You don't have a Moralo list as well? Dead

 

Once again, i don't think he is unbeatable. But utterly boring and stupid.

 

and edit:
Don't forget that these 6-7 shuttles can attack as well. Vader? He might die to the black dice from the shuttles….

 

Edited by Tokra
forgot something

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18 minutes ago, The Jabbawookie said:

Not gonna stop Kallus LTT...  Add Mauler and he’s in trouble.  Use high-value counter and he’s dead.

Kallus? LTT? Against what? With Rhymer he is out of counter range, and when you activate, he is not in your flak range anymore. The only one, that might be able to flak him, is an SSD with a red die. 
Just think a bit further what is possible with this squadron, and you see, it will be a pain 😉

Shara and Cienna "might" be the best answers against him. But they do not really last this long as well. And he can always just fly out again. He is so hard to catch, if flown right. 

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Tokra said:

Kallus? LTT? Against what? With Rhymer he is out of counter range, and when you activate, he is not in your flak range anymore. The only one, that might be able to flak him, is an SSD with a red die. 
Just think a bit further what is possible with this squadron, and you see, it will be a pain 😉

Shara and Cienna "might" be the best answers against him. But they do not really last this long as well. And he can always just fly out again. He is so hard to catch, if flown right. 

Wasn’t thinking about Rhymer; without him, ISD-2.  But he’s a real problem, it’s true.  Ciena with the right support, though, will be hitting him harder than he hits her.  Really, I’m probably biased as a Sloane player; half the Hateful 8 have ways to make him squeal once they Squall in from afar.  Saber, Jendon, Mauler, first player, dead Moralo.  Other builds could have a much harder time.

Edited by The Jabbawookie

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The simplest way of erratering him would be to make him only trigger when your opponent moves/removes a token. 

Just an opinion there, haven't tested it.

 

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4 minutes ago, Flengin said:

The simplest way of erratering him would be to make him only trigger when your opponent moves/removes a token. 

Just an opinion there, haven't tested it.

 

The easiest would be to limit him to once per turn.

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48 minutes ago, The Jabbawookie said:

Not gonna stop Kallus LTT...  Add Mauler and he’s in trouble.  Use high-value counter and he’s dead.

I didn't say he was unbeatable. Though I feel like he can definitely be a NPE.

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54 minutes ago, Tokra said:

Kallus? LTT? Against what? With Rhymer he is out of counter range, and when you activate, he is not in your flak range anymore. The only one, that might be able to flak him, is an SSD with a red die. 
Just think a bit further what is possible with this squadron, and you see, it will be a pain 😉

Shara and Cienna "might" be the best answers against him. But they do not really last this long as well. And he can always just fly out again. He is so hard to catch, if flown right. 

Also each time he moves he can proc the station if it's nearby, so 7 hull can become alot more than you might anticipate. 

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Ever since we have known about him I have wanted to build an abuse list with him for fun, but thats all for fun.  Sure its cool but having a 7 hull single brace squdron as the lynchpin of your build like @Snipafist said its risky. There are also a lot of varubles to account for: keeping the token close enough to him to continually trigger his ability, squadrons tieing up your shuttles, counter, your second player and he could just get alpha struck to **** and there goes your whole fleet. On paper its insane in practice there are just to many variables. I think he will be good but will see play in Imperal fish farm type lists with two shuttles and he helps compensate for the shuttles not being that great stat wise. Abusing him to such an extreme your opponent will see the lynchpin and take it out, but it sounds fun to try, and if it is good people will build to make it less effective taking advantage of the variables.

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More to the point, the sheer physics of intending to get so many activations is ludicrous.

I mean.  Sure.  You can FCT 4 Lambdas with a Victory, and thus attempt to proc him 4 times, but even as you do that, you're advacing him a fair bit across the field.  To the point that, you're going to have trouble moving something *else* up to make him trigger again with another set of FCTs.

After a very short time, you're going to find yourself Strung out of a distance where the only way you can activate him is going to be throwing individual lambdas with Squadron Commands...  Giving you, maybe 3-4 activations at best based on how far you can fling how many lambdas after FCTs...  You simply won't have the Range to do much more - this severely limits him far less than the "Ideal".  

The perfect, ideal circumstance won't come up that often.

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6 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

More to the point, the sheer physics of intending to get so many activations is ludicrous.

I mean.  Sure.  You can FCT 4 Lambdas with a Victory, and thus attempt to proc him 4 times, but even as you do that, you're advacing him a fair bit across the field.  To the point that, you're going to have trouble moving something *else* up to make him trigger again with another set of FCTs.

After a very short time, you're going to find yourself Strung out of a distance where the only way you can activate him is going to be throwing individual lambdas with Squadron Commands...  Giving you, maybe 3-4 activations at best based on how far you can fling how many lambdas after FCTs...  You simply won't have the Range to do much more - this severely limits him far less than the "Ideal".  

The perfect, ideal circumstance won't come up that often.

Dont unterstimate the range of strategic and relay (combined with boosted Comms) 😁.

There might be someone at a tournament who is using this extreme list. And if you don't have the counter in your list, you are toast 😉. This part alone is a problem.

It just felt wrong, that you have to add some cards as counter against one single squadron. And i don't even know what these counter could/should be. Ships cannot do anything against the squadron (beside maybe the assault SSD with full anti squadron setup), they need to go against the carrier ships, if they are able. This means only other squadrons can try to counter him. A full set of speed 5 squadron with counter could try to take him out. This reduce the choice to A-Wings and TIE Interceptors. Sadly, because he is second player, he can set the station in the middle, to have a repair anchor. Meaning you need to take him out in one activation. 3-4 TIE Interceptors with Howlrunner and Flight Controllers should work. As long as he is not killing your carrier first.

This means, that you have to add 4-6 special squadrons, a carrier for these squadrons and maybe some other support. Just because your opponent could have a Moralo List? This sounds wrong to me.

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Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, Tokra said:

Dont unterstimate the range of strategic and relay (combined with boosted Comms) 😁.

There might be someone at a tournament who is using this extreme list. And if you don't have the counter in your list, you are toast 😉. This part alone is a problem.

It just felt wrong, that you have to add some cards as counter against one single squadron. And i don't even know what these counter could/should be. Ships cannot do anything against the squadron (beside maybe the assault SSD with full anti squadron setup), they need to go against the carrier ships, if they are able. This means only other squadrons can try to counter him. A full set of speed 5 squadron with counter could try to take him out. This reduce the choice to A-Wings and TIE Interceptors. Sadly, because he is second player, he can set the station in the middle, to have a repair anchor. Meaning you need to take him out in one activation. 3-4 TIE Interceptors with Howlrunner and Flight Controllers should work. As long as he is not killing your carrier first.

This means, that you have to add 4-6 special squadrons, a carrier for these squadrons and maybe some other support. Just because your opponent could have a Moralo List? This sounds wrong to me.

I don’t underestimate it. In fact, I put it in the table. The more you need to Rhymer to avoid the counter, The less you do. The more you need to dodge engagement the less you do. The more you need to stretch, the less you do.

 

as much as I dismiss the threat, which should be at least tacitly considered, you have to admit - little more is gained by fear-mongering.

 

Edited by Drasnighta

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Moralo is a horribly designed card. Pure and utter trash. Possibly the worst one thus far in Armada.

Like @Tokra says, sure he can be beaten, but he's broken in so many was it's not fun.

When first I saw Moralo my mind read him as if he could only do his little trick if the OPPONENT moved a token. That was still rather interesting.

Then I read it again and my mind just went duuuuhh... something that can trigger, to move AND attack, for all intents and purposes ANY NUMBER OF TIMES PER ROUND!??? Hahaha, and here ppl were complaining about Jendon. It's ******* hilarious 🤣🤣

 

 

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Oh don't be hyperbolic. It's a speed three squad and you'll be playing targeting beacons every time with that list. Any Imperial wing worth anything murders Muralo in a single activation with a comfortable buffer for the alpha strike. The you're left with a bunch of shuttles, a Quasar, and a Vic. Color me unimpressed.

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6 minutes ago, Truthiness said:

Oh don't be hyperbolic. It's a speed three squad and you'll be playing targeting beacons every time with that list. Any Imperial wing worth anything murders Muralo in a single activation with a comfortable buffer for the alpha strike. The you're left with a bunch of shuttles, a Quasar, and a Vic. Color me unimpressed.

This would lower the lists to Moralo and anti Moralo (Imperial Squadron Wing). 🤔

And he is not just speed 3 😉.
He is speed 3 + 8 times speed 1. Or speed 3 + speed 2 + 7 times speed 1 (via Squall).

This means he is coming in, attacking your squadrons 3-4 times, and flying out of your range (in worst case even on the station).
Or, if he want to stay he can come in and attack about 7 times in one activation. If he even has another activation your squadrons are dead before they can do anything (beside counter).

I would not lower him to "easy to counter".
And even if he is, with special combinations (like i already said). It is boring to play against such a list if you don't have the counter.
It cannot be the intention for the game, to have the meta going down to: "Bomb and Counter".

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I'll believe it when I see it, because you have to have to keep everything within that distance 1-2 bubble. I believe you can make it work, Tokra. I just think it's ridiculously hyperbolic to call it "Pure and utter trash. Possibly the worst one thus far in Armada." before it even hits the table.

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14 minutes ago, Truthiness said:

I'll believe it when I see it, because you have to have to keep everything within that distance 1-2 bubble. I believe you can make it work, Tokra. I just think it's ridiculously hyperbolic to call it "Pure and utter trash. Possibly the worst one thus far in Armada." before it even hits the table.

We are currently testing around with the SSD, because there are two major tournaments coming up, where the SSD is allowed and RIM is not (Grand and Continental Championship).
This is why we could not really test the Moralo fleet so far. And because i think that he will be fixed (aka, not worth to put much time in a list that will never be possible 😉).
But a first test was a clear 10-1 win after turn 1 (ok, he didnt know Moralos effect, and it was Raddus on a CR90, ...). The second Test was showing a 10-1 win on turn 3 against a normal list that had no counter against Moralo.
I am not sure, but i think there was never a card that messed up the ballance this bad, or in other words, allowed such a fast win (if it was intened the way it is right now).

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