Dreamlands Fanatic and Power Drain

[TheProfessor 4]

Last night in a match, I played Dreamlands Fanatic and was met with Power Drain.  Does Dreamlands fanatic return to hand or to the discard pile?

 

Here are the relevant texts:

Dreamlands Fanatic:  Response: After an opponent's character leaves play, put Dreamlands Fanatic into play from your hand.

Power Drain:  Disrupt: Cancel an Action or Response just played or used.

 

[Kallisti 1]

 I'd be inclined to say it goes to the discard pile.  I don't have anything official to point to as a valid ruling for this though.

The card has been activated, so it's "sorta" in play, then gets cancelled, so goes to the discard pile.  It seems to me it's like cancelling any event card etc.

[Ephraim2 0]

TheProfessor said:

 

Last night in a match, I played Dreamlands Fanatic and was met with Power Drain.  Does Dreamlands fanatic return to hand or to the discard pile?

 

Here are the relevant texts:

Dreamlands Fanatic:  Response: After an opponent's character leaves play, put Dreamlands Fanatic into play from your hand.

Power Drain:  Disrupt: Cancel an Action or Response just played or used.

 

 

 

I wanna say Dreamland Fanatic stays in hand, that you tried to play it, and Power Drain stopped it from playing, and it stayed in your hand...BUT

when you look at Power Drain's wording it says "cancel action or response just played or used.  That part of the wording tells me the card was played/used and now goes in discard pile.  Rather then "stopped from being used".

 

The best thing to do is email FFG, get an answer, then follow up here.  I'd like to know the correct interpretation.

 

[TheProfessor 4]

 Anyone know the easiest way to contact one of the FFG rules team?  I'm guessing they don't follow the Rules forum...

[PearlJamaholic 0]

interesting.....when i used power drain to cancel eibon we played that he stayed in hand but the token was lost. but i can see the discard aspect of it. it actually makes more sense to discard the character when compared to how events are treated.

[jhaelen 98]

TheProfessor said:

 Anyone know the easiest way to contact one of the FFG rules team?  I'm guessing they don't follow the Rules forum...

From the Main menu Customer Support and continue to fill out the Rule Question form.

Regarding the OPs question, I would have returned the fanatic to its owner's hand. The Response has been cancelled, restoring the situation before the Response was executed. It's not an Event card.

[PRODIGEE 0]

Well, I don't have any regular answer on this point ...

I used to say that a power drain played on Eibon would 1. make the token losts 2. makes the descendant stay in the hand.

I think that allow the card to reach the discard pile would create an opportunity to send characters cards from the hand to the discard, which would be an abuse of rules, as it might allow you to ressurect it or play it from the discard pile.

So my guess would be retruning to hand the Fanatic, but i'd love an official answer !

[TheProfessor 4]

 I sent in an email to the rules link last week - still waiting a response.  I don't know what the expected wait time is on rules questions...

There are several cards that need this resolution.  Parallel Universe is another, and I'm sure there are more... 

[PearlJamaholic 0]

TheProfessor said:

 I sent in an email to the rules link last week - still waiting a response.  I don't know what the expected wait time is on rules questions...

There are several cards that need this resolution.  Parallel Universe is another, and I'm sure there are more... 

im stilling waiting for a response on stuff from the first league run.....

[jhaelen 98]

PearlJamaholic said:

 

im stilling waiting for a response on stuff from the first league run.....

This does not bode well...

I imagine they might have been overwhelmed by the number of questions...

[PRODIGEE 0]

I finally found something here :

In the FAQ :

"If an effect is canceled, any costs that were paid to trigger that effect are still lost. For example, if Player A drains a domain to play Shotgun Blast, but Player B plays Power Drain (which cancels the Shotgun Blast). Player A’s domain remains drained, even though the Shotgun Blast effects were canceled."

So, the costs is payed and the card is played !

And, as the character is "putted into play" :

"“Put into Play” is a game mechanic that bypasses all costs (including resource matches) and play restrictions, with the exception of uniqueness.
For example: The Terror of the Tides (Summons of the Deep F67) reads “Action: Pay 3 to put The Terror of Tides into play from your hand. Then, give The Terror of the Tides 4 wounds.” By paying 3 resources, the controlling player is able to bring The Terror of the Tides into play any time he is able to play an Action. Note that by using this ability to bring The Terror of the Tides into play, the controlling player bypasses the need for a Cthulhu resource match."

The basis rules states that : "When a card effect is canceled, its cost must still be paid (and thus
wasted). Canceled event cards are immediately discarded." And, as it only concern events cards (not Character cards with a Put into play mecanism), I would state that the card keeps into prior In Hand status.

[Ephraim2 0]

PRODIGEE said:

 

I finally found something here :

In the FAQ :

"If an effect is canceled, any costs that were paid to trigger that effect are still lost. For example, if Player A drains a domain to play Shotgun Blast, but Player B plays Power Drain (which cancels the Shotgun Blast). Player A’s domain remains drained, even though the Shotgun Blast effects were canceled."

So, the costs is payed and the card is played !

And, as the character is "putted into play" :

"“Put into Play” is a game mechanic that bypasses all costs (including resource matches) and play restrictions, with the exception of uniqueness.
For example: The Terror of the Tides (Summons of the Deep F67) reads “Action: Pay 3 to put The Terror of Tides into play from your hand. Then, give The Terror of the Tides 4 wounds.” By paying 3 resources, the controlling player is able to bring The Terror of the Tides into play any time he is able to play an Action. Note that by using this ability to bring The Terror of the Tides into play, the controlling player bypasses the need for a Cthulhu resource match."

The basis rules states that : "When a card effect is canceled, its cost must still be paid (and thus
wasted). Canceled event cards are immediately discarded." And, as it only concern events cards (not Character cards with a Put into play mecanism), I would state that the card keeps into prior In Hand status.

 

 

 

Thanks for digging this up PRODIGEE! 

Honestly, I dont see a solution in these examples.  The issue would still be "what happens to the character card?"  From the FAQ, the examples definately indicate a card is played.  Even the wording on Power Drain suggests the card is played.  Unfortunately, the "Put in Play example addresses event and not characters (like you mentioned).  Someone could argue that the meaning of "When a card effect is canceled, its cost must still be paid (and thus wasted)" is that a character card is discarded, and THATS the wasted cost.  See?  We need a ruling on this. 

 

Until there is one, im going the discard route.  If Dreamland Fanatic gets hit with a Power Drain when he comes into play, he goes into the discard pile.  Just like a Shoutgun Blast.  The cost wasted will be the actual card being discarded. 

The most important thing would be consistency within your game meta.  Call your own decision a House Rule if you have to.

 

[TheProfessor 4]

Ephraim said:

PRODIGEE said:

 In the FAQ :

"If an effect is canceled, any costs that were paid to trigger that effect are still lost. For example, if Player A drains a domain to play Shotgun Blast, but Player B plays Power Drain (which cancels the Shotgun Blast). Player A’s domain remains drained, even though the Shotgun Blast effects were canceled."

So, the costs is payed and the card is played !

And, as the character is "putted into play" :

"“Put into Play” is a game mechanic that bypasses all costs (including resource matches) and play restrictions, with the exception of uniqueness.
For example: The Terror of the Tides (Summons of the Deep F67) reads “Action: Pay 3 to put The Terror of Tides into play from your hand. Then, give The Terror of the Tides 4 wounds.” By paying 3 resources, the controlling player is able to bring The Terror of the Tides into play any time he is able to play an Action. Note that by using this ability to bring The Terror of the Tides into play, the controlling player bypasses the need for a Cthulhu resource match."

The basis rules states that : "When a card effect is canceled, its cost must still be paid (and thus
wasted). Canceled event cards are immediately discarded." And, as it only concern events cards (not Character cards with a Put into play mecanism), I would state that the card keeps into prior In Hand status.

 

Then Ephraim said:

Honestly, I dont see a solution in these examples.  The issue would still be "what happens to the character card?"  From the FAQ, the examples definately indicate a card is played.  Even the wording on Power Drain suggests the card is played.  Unfortunately, the "Put in Play example addresses event and not characters (like you mentioned).  Someone could argue that the meaning of "When a card effect is canceled, its cost must still be paid (and thus wasted)" is that a character card is discarded, and THATS the wasted cost.  See?  We need a ruling on this. 

The FAQ states that put into play bypasses all costs.  We know that if an effect is cancelled its cost must still be paid, but there is no cost associated with the "put into play" component.  So I conclude from the research that Prodigee presented that the card would return to hand, unless it is an Event card.  Which is why they had to add that extra rule statement about canceled event cards being discarded.

Conversely, I do think it is unclear.  An official ruling would still be nice.  Especially with Regional events and the like going on.

If we are going to experience this game as a tournament based activity (which I enjoy), then we need to try to clarify as many rulings as possible.

House rules are great for fun games, but not good for regional and national tournaments.

 

[Ephraim2 0]

TheProfessor said:

Conversely, I do think it is unclear.  An official ruling would still be nice.  Especially with Regional events and the like going on.

If we are going to experience this game as a tournament based activity (which I enjoy), then we need to try to clarify as many rulings as possible.

House rules are great for fun games, but not good for regional and national tournaments.

 

Your absolutely right.  There's been several interpretations of this, and different conclusions drawn based on the rules, but some form of consensus is needed- especially on regional/national levels.  I'd hate to see someone lose an important game because they have always played the game using an alternative interpretation of the rules.