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Thalandar

Future Expansions

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2 hours ago, Alpha17 said:

Wookiees may understand Basic just fine, but how are most of their squadmates supposed to understand them?  Intersquad communication is vital.  The EU explained the very specific circumstances that helped Han learn Shyriiwook, and most average troopers won't have that background. (and let's not even start on the stupidity of him speaking it in Solo)  Leia also spent years trying to learn it, and had trouble, and she's a trained diplomat.  Even assuming that one or two people in the squad miraculously speak this very niche language, what happens when those people aren't available?  Language barriers in military units have been a thing for a long, long time, and even in a galaxy far away, they'll cause far more problems than its worth.  Creating ethnic units that speak the same language and have a similar culture and background has historically been the answer, at least as long as those populations were trusted by their governments. 

of course you should consider that not able to speak shyriwook, doesn’t mean they can’t understand it perfectly. For instance, nobody is able to “talk” R2 or BB8 “languages” but at least we see Luke, Rey, Obi-wan, Leia, Anakin and some more understand the droids. And there’s a bunch of languages in Star wars (hutesse) that are known for the great majority of beings. That said, if you consider that an intergalactic conflict that involves a thousand planets has to be “split in units” considering culture... mmmm.... well...

And real life has shown us that british or US allied soldiers were perfectly able to fight alongside french or norwegian units. In my country, Spain, there was a civil war that involved soldiers from England, France, Russia, Greece, US and Spanish republic soldiers, and in the other side there were german, italian, moroccan and spanish fascists... and all of them fought toghether three whole years.

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My point is that prior to the prequel movies, the concept of a racially homogeneous world is not even seen in the star wars movies.  Yes the old EU is famous for its "whatever they were doing onscreen is what their planet is famous for" but anytime you see aliens in the OT it is usually a very mixed group.  COULD there be a squad of just wookies in the rebel alliance?  Sure.  Is it likely that they would be wearing their traditional war gear after somehow escaping the empire and laying low in the outer rim somewhere?  Not really.  I think the wookies should have been equipped with rebel alliance gear at the very least. 

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4 hours ago, devin.pike.1989 said:

My point is that prior to the prequel movies, the concept of a racially homogeneous world is not even seen in the star wars movies.  Yes the old EU is famous for its "whatever they were doing onscreen is what their planet is famous for" but anytime you see aliens in the OT it is usually a very mixed group.  COULD there be a squad of just wookies in the rebel alliance?  Sure.  Is it likely that they would be wearing their traditional war gear after somehow escaping the empire and laying low in the outer rim somewhere?  Not really.  I think the wookies should have been equipped with rebel alliance gear at the very least. 

well, I am not an expert in wookie lore, but I’d say the unit from the box is WAY different from those of episode III...

do they have wookie knives and a bowcaster? ****, yes, but I’d say that a group of wookies that left the planet and did not become slaves could have fled with SOMETHING from their planet.

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19 hours ago, devin.pike.1989 said:

Yes the old EU is famous for its "whatever they were doing onscreen is what their planet is famous for"

I don't know about the greater EU, but as far as the RPG went, that phenomena gets a bit overstated in the retelling. I went back and looked at the Galaxy Guides and such and didn't find the statements to seem that crazy if I turned it into a sentence about an Earth culture. For example replaced the alien race with "Scottish" and the behavior with "bagpipes". They don't actually say "all twi'leks are trained dancers", they say "many twi'lek ceremonies include dancing", which are two very different statements.

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21 hours ago, Tubb said:

of course you should consider that not able to speak shyriwook, doesn’t mean they can’t understand it perfectly. For instance, nobody is able to “talk” R2 or BB8 “languages” but at least we see Luke, Rey, Obi-wan, Leia, Anakin and some more understand the droids. And there’s a bunch of languages in Star wars (hutesse) that are known for the great majority of beings. That said, if you consider that an intergalactic conflict that involves a thousand planets has to be “split in units” considering culture... mmmm.... well...

And real life has shown us that british or US allied soldiers were perfectly able to fight alongside french or norwegian units. In my country, Spain, there was a civil war that involved soldiers from England, France, Russia, Greece, US and Spanish republic soldiers, and in the other side there were german, italian, moroccan and spanish fascists... and all of them fought toghether three whole years.

Looking at the examples you cited creates a bit of a false impression.  Luke, Obi-Wan, and Anakin worked with R2 for years, and its not hard to believe they would pick up his language.  This is also helped considerably by the talk-to-text feature built into star fighters which would help this process.  Luke clearly didn't understand R2 clearly with out that feature as late as his arrival on Dagobah, and I don't recall if Anakin is shown understanding R2 without it until Episode III.  I don't think we're ever given any indication that Leia understands R2 without assistance.  Rey may understand BB8, but that could be due to her working with or scavenging similar droids, the Force, or just part of her amazing array of Mary Sue powers.  

Looking at your examples, I don't think you seem to understand how those units operated.  During both World Wars, soldiers of various nations fought side by side, but rarely were multiple languages spoken down to the unit level.  A set of British, French, and Norwegian units might fight together, but you don't see British soldiers serving in a French unit under a Norwegian commander.  Occasionally you'd see joint units, but either these relied on common languages, such as join US/British/Canadian/Australian/etc units, or specially picked people that were fluent in the language of the people they would be working with.  Attempts to push for integration such as you reference were rejected.  It should be remembered that the original British and French plan in WWI was to integrate American units or even individual personnel into their existing frame work, rather than allow a separate American army to be formed.  This was rejected for both political and practical reasons.  Attempts to merge divisions of American and British units during the Tunisian Campaign in WWII caused numerous problems and created growing animosity between the allies.  I'll grant you that the Spanish Civil War likely saw an interesting degree of multi-language units, but I doubt it was to the extreme you suggest, especially on the Fascist side.

21 hours ago, devin.pike.1989 said:

My point is that prior to the prequel movies, the concept of a racially homogeneous world is not even seen in the star wars movies.  Yes the old EU is famous for its "whatever they were doing onscreen is what their planet is famous for" but anytime you see aliens in the OT it is usually a very mixed group.  COULD there be a squad of just wookies in the rebel alliance?  Sure.  Is it likely that they would be wearing their traditional war gear after somehow escaping the empire and laying low in the outer rim somewhere?  Not really.  I think the wookies should have been equipped with rebel alliance gear at the very least. 

Isn't it though?  How often do we see aliens in Rebel units?  ANH and ESB showcase almost completely human Rebel units.  RotJ shows us aliens fighting for the Rebellion for the first time, but even then, we don't really see them integrated quite as completely as you suggest.  Admiral Ackbar's bridge crew is almost all Mon Calamari, and the alien pilots we see could be squadron leaders for their own squads.  We see all of two aliens working directly in human units, Orrimaarko (Prune Face) in Han's strike team, and Nien Nunb on the Falcon, but that's really it.  Ironically enough, in lore, Orrimaarko's people were quite reclusive, and he personally felt slighted by having Han picked to command the mission, which he accredited to the Rebellion's own human centrism, showing some of the problems that can develop even when you do integrate units.  

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The core of the rebel alliance leadership is made up largely of defecting imperial officers.  The Mon Calamari are clearly entering the conflict with their own ships and existing crew and command structure.  It makes sense for them.  This is not a hill I particularly want to die on.  I just think that a more mixed group of aliens would have been better than a group of clone wars era wookies.

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I like  the idea  of captured vehicles. I think using rules similar to Bolt Action, they can not be repaired and there’s an increased cost. They could easily include and upgrade card example for the AT-ST: “Rebels Only” at X cost and “No Upgrades can be attached to this vehicle besides this one”. Text about alignment to the new army. 

Other units I’d like to see: 

-Imperial Probe Droids as a specialist or Single Unit

- Republic Commandos

- Random Creature Encounter scenarios  for Rancor, Wampa, Gundark, Mynocks or Sand People/Tusken Raiders similar to the Downed AT-ST or Bunker. 

 

 

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Star Wars is heavily influenced by WWII movies, not WWII. In which movies, it was common trope to have a bunch of stereotyped nationalities in the cast of characters.

In the middle ages, having mixed cultures and languages in a unit wasn't all that uncommon either. And Star Wars exists in a fairy tale world that has more in common with the middle ages than the post-industrial world.

How does the alien communicate in their squad? Same way a tin man talks to a lion. It's just an excuse to have interesting looking figures.

I like the all-wookie rebel squad though. They've been a staple of every SW minis game to date. And they don't need costume changes for different army themes.

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Posted (edited)
On 8/9/2019 at 12:26 PM, devin.pike.1989 said:

My point is that prior to the prequel movies, the concept of a racially homogeneous world is not even seen in the star wars movies.  Yes the old EU is famous for its "whatever they were doing onscreen is what their planet is famous for" but anytime you see aliens in the OT it is usually a very mixed group.  COULD there be a squad of just wookies in the rebel alliance?  Sure.  Is it likely that they would be wearing their traditional war gear after somehow escaping the empire and laying low in the outer rim somewhere?  Not really.  I think the wookies should have been equipped with rebel alliance gear at the very least. 

Technically in the original trilogy we only see one officially habitable world Tatooine.  Hoth, Dagobah, and Endor were either uninhabited by sentient life or had no settlements recognized by Galactic powers.  Bespin was a gas giant that seemingly only had one major city.  So it isn't so much that the original trilogy doesn't establish homogeneous home worlds we rarely see any actual home worlds

Edited by chr335

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I see wookies working as groups of wookies because of a few reasons...

1. Look to their culture. very clannish with respecting elders and strength. Closely formed bonds and loyalty to those they bond with. Look to Chewbacca and Han which is obviously a special case.

2. They are looked down on and feared by most other races as uncouth smelly barbarian beasts. So not many others would willingly work closely with them. They would form their own groups and communities anywhere they went.

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44 minutes ago, EVIL INC said:

I see wookies working as groups of wookies because of a few reasons...

1. Look to their culture. very clannish with respecting elders and strength. Closely formed bonds and loyalty to those they bond with. Look to Chewbacca and Han which is obviously a special case.

2. They are looked down on and feared by most other races as uncouth smelly barbarian beasts. So not many others would willingly work closely with them. They would form their own groups and communities anywhere they went.

And as for the Wookiee cultural weapons vs. alliance standard issue...

...wouldn't you stick closely to your cultural heritage after years of enslavement and cultural suppression? I'm sure some freed Wookiee or another knows the construction techniques if they cant just be smuggled out of Kashyyyk.

...would you volunteer to tell the Wookiee contingent that they have to equip standard issue donut helmets, camo fatigues and A-280's  rather than their traditional garb and equioment, oh, and no more ripping stormtrooper arms out of sockets!

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19 minutes ago, aniron said:

And as for the Wookiee cultural weapons vs. alliance standard issue...

...wouldn't you stick closely to your cultural heritage after years of enslavement and cultural suppression? 

Highlanders! If you take the king’s shilling and don the red coat, you get the banned kilt and basket sword as part of your uniform! You’ll get oats instead of rice in the weekly rations and you’ll have officers that speak Gaelic!

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Also, Wookiee weapons (at least in Legends, but I bet in canon too) are all hand-crafted, they don't have heavy industry on Kashyyyk. They might temporarily pick up another gun (Chewie actually uses the SX-21 scattergun the rebels are getting in Solo), but if they have the time they're gonna take some tools and components together and build their bowcasters and pistols (which I think in SWG had wood furnishing). 

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I'm kind of surprised republic AT-RT hasn't been announced.  Hopefully they're turning that into a plastic frame with a separate frame for the various riders.

 

the mud troopers from solo seem like a shoe -in too, if for no other reason than they'd be a different troop choice; maybe the imperial version of rebel troopers.

I'm just excited to see the original trilogy stuff carried over into frames.

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14 hours ago, devin.pike.1989 said:

I would like to see mudtroopers as well. Maybe with rebel partizans as their rebel equivalent. 

Yup, that'd be nice. Corps with bomb/charge mechanic then?

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On 8/7/2019 at 2:20 PM, Thalandar said:

My wish list for other expansions:

Fleet troopers: flamethrower

Snowtrooper: scatter gun

Speeder bike: rebel riders and card to make speeders usable by rebel player

At Rts: Clone trooper rider and card so it can be used by republic

At St: captured and usable by rebel player, with limited weapons/upgrades

What are some of your ideas?

Maybe Rebels should have some kind of unit that can “liberate” a vehicle from another faction (not “liberate” from a player, I mean they would pay for and start with an AT-ST or Tank or something).

Maybe the unit that has the “liberate” keyword gives a reduction to the vehicle in some way (they had to damage it to “liberate” it).

That would be very thematic and unique to the Rebel faction. But I’m not sure allowing the rebels to take a fully functional imperial Occupier Tank would be very balanced even if they are paying full points.

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I would like to see the mimban campaign added.  Mudtroopers and their mimbanese Liberators counter part.  Maybe give the Mudtroopers some sort of dug in defensive capability and the scattergun.  The Mimbanese could have a tunnel ability that allows you to deploy one or two squads latter in the game anywhere on the board.

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On 8/7/2019 at 2:20 PM, Thalandar said:

My wish list for other expansions:

Fleet troopers: flamethrower

Snowtrooper: scatter gun

Speeder bike: rebel riders and card to make speeders usable by rebel player

At Rts: Clone trooper rider and card so it can be used by republic

At St: captured and usable by rebel player, with limited weapons/upgrades

What are some of your ideas?

This would suck then the faction come to close and copy and then why have factions I like to keep things different so there are some skill to playing  if  we want to make things the same then  why not an up grade card heavy armor turn white dice to red for 4 points lol  that how crazy this list is. 

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On 8/11/2019 at 4:43 AM, TauntaunScout said:

Star Wars is heavily influenced by WWII movies, not WWII. In which movies, it was common trope to have a bunch of stereotyped nationalities in the cast of characters.

In the middle ages, having mixed cultures and languages in a unit wasn't all that uncommon either. And Star Wars exists in a fairy tale world that has more in common with the middle ages than the post-industrial world.

How does the alien communicate in their squad? Same way a tin man talks to a lion. It's just an excuse to have interesting looking figures.

I like the all-wookie rebel squad though. They've been a staple of every SW minis game to date. And they don't need costume changes for different army themes.

Precisely, let's not think about this too much and just enjoy the pretend world and the games we can have from it

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