Jump to content
Bort

Scum inspiration.

Recommended Posts

I played scum exclusively in V1.0. And up until last week when I buckled and bought CIS I was Scum all the way in 2.0.

Reading things on forums, and looking at tournament lists I was becoming more and more convinced that Scum is the underdog currently, or is simply being left behind.

 

But instead of despairing I came up with a list of why I feel Scum is still awesome.

 

I think Scum is a great faction to collect and play because:

  • Our transition to 2.0 has been much better than the other two original factions.
  1. Scum was the only faction not split up.    Some Rebels went over to Resistance. Some Empire went over to First Order.  But all Scum ships stayed were they are, seems there is way more loyalty amongst thieves after all.
  2. Scurrg left the Rebels, but stayed with Scum. 
  3. Firespray left the Empire, but stayed with Scum. 

So for any single faction players their faction got split in two AND they solidly lost the use of one ship.

  • Yes it's been a while now, but we are the only “old” faction that got any “new” ships at all in V2.0.  

We got the Customized YT, the Escape Craft and the modified LN.      Rebels got nothing new so far.   Empire got nothing new so far.

  • We are the largest faction (by ship type count).

 Scum have 19 ships, Rebels have 17 ships, Empire has 14 ships, And all the new factions have less.

  •  We have the most V2.0 releases.  (Not counting hyperspace legality, counting what’s available as pure 2.0 purchases/announced up to end of W6)

Scum have 9 ships.    Empire and Rebels have 8 ships.  All the rest have less. 

  • Only one wave so far (W4) didn’t contain either a new ship or a V2.0 released ship.

So scum have not been forgotten and moved to the background. We just feel left out at the moment, because W4 is the newest one to hit the shelves.

  • Combo Shenanigans. I know some people don’t like it, but Scum has the most unique chain combinations.  Other factions may have more synergy, but we have more combo.

The way I define it:  

Synergy:  Two(or more) ships that are good on their own, works even better together.

Combo: Two(or more) ships that do nothing on their own (half effect, or requires something else to trigger it) combined for one big effect.

Ok, I have to concede that combo’s are more easily broken down, and the effort / point cost to get any effect is mostly not worth it.  But still, we CAN come up with them.

  • We have IG-88s. 

Favourite ship in game. Not "best" by tournament stats, but really nice ship for me personally.

 

 

 

 

All in all I believe its true that the other factions can do some things better. But instead of just trying to copy them and failing we should focus on what Scum can uniquely do.

 

Feel free to add your own + and - feelings on where Scum sits today in V2.0.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

The mining guild surveyor is a ridiculously cheap talented pilot, making it fairly unique across factions before factoring in the ability to ignore asteroids while moving

If snapshot is released at a reasonable point cost, you're gonna see some serious **** 

Edited by ficklegreendice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still think Scum are better than most people seem to think.

The meta representation is poor imo, because it's generally not a faction that copes well with poor variance, with a few notable exceptions.

On top of that, there's a big reliance on 'The Perfect Storm', where you set your traps and your unwitting opponent blunders into them and gets crisped.

At larger tourneys, both these elements will unravel before the cut, either by chance or by actual smart opposition.

However, if you are a smart cookie yourself and know precisely what you're doing with your squad, there's a lot of good tricks and tools there.

Even the smartest of cookies need practice and experience with their squad here though. Particularly with Dread Loks being chopped. So I don't believe anyone can just netlist the faction and do well, unlike the meta big boys.

And so they fall short on the competitive radar.

But Scum is the most fun and creative of all the factions. Easily.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Scum is hurting a bit because of their Hyperspace restrictions.  A lot of the more fun and interesting pieces aren't in that format and the ones that are are challenging to build lists with at the moment.  In my area most local tournaments are Hyperspace and when so much of the good/interesting Scum stuff is locked out people just look at other factions instead.

In extended I think Scum are better than people generally think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Cuz05 said:

So I don't believe anyone can just netlist the faction and do well, unlike the meta big boys.

Ehhhhhh well maybe Republic beef you can netlist and just do well, but it does have rather a sharp performance ceiling even if it is well represented in OP events. Jedi aces are doing much better in the competitive scene and are also much harder to play.

Really I think "netlist and roll on to victory" is less of a thing than it ever was, and even recent abuses (Tripsilon, Yion, Drealoks, Rebel Beef, Quad Sigmas, Jake Brake Han) aren't nearly as  bad as the 1.0 netlist material and still require playing well to win with.

That to say I don't think this is unique to scum anymore, fortunately.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

🤨 Having allot of options really amounts to nothing when most of those options don't work together, and those that do keep getting nerf hammered by points adjustments. Your post amounts to saying "Just play them in Casual games", which for competitive players means "just don't bother with them". And before someone brings up the Torkil/Seevor/Marauders list, look at what they did to Drea. Torkil is next... 😠

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, ClassicalMoser said:

Ehhhhhh well maybe Republic beef you can netlist and just do well, but it does have rather a sharp performance ceiling even if it is well represented in OP events. Jedi aces are doing much better in the competitive scene and are also much harder to play.

Really I think "netlist and roll on to victory" is less of a thing than it ever was, and even recent abuses (Tripsilon, Yion, Drealoks, Rebel Beef, Quad Sigmas, Jake Brake Han) aren't nearly as  bad as the 1.0 netlist material and still require playing well to win with..

Fortunately true. I didn't mean netlist to victory though, I meant not netlist to surprisingly humiliating defeat :D

I very much acknowledge that every squad takes consummate skill to win consistantly with. I just mean that Scum needs good familiarity not to lose consistently with.

3 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

🤨 Having allot of options really amounts to nothing when most of those options don't work together, and those that do keep getting nerf hammered by points adjustments. Your post amounts to saying "Just play them in Casual games", which for competitive players means "just don't bother with them". And before someone brings up the Torkil/Seevor/Marauders list, look at what they did to Drea. Torkil is next... 😠

Well, that's also fair. What my post actually amounts to is a slightly less exaggerated version of what you say. I mean, I specifically say that they dont do well at the highest level and why I think that is.

And yes, they are great for casual play obviously. But if you want to make a big cut, you're probably better off not, or at least really, really knowing what you're doing. Kind of implicit in what I said there. So agreed.

That doesnt mean what i posted wasnt worth saying. There is a lot more to playing X Wing than making a national cut and Scum shouldn't be written off at all levels just because it's difficult to beat everyone and everything with them.

This forum serves more than the top 5% after all and not every conversation needs to revolve around that 5%.

They have options plenty good enough to regularly win at less than national level, IF you know what you're doing with them. Something a lot of posts on Scums relative strength seem to find dubious.

And those are my feelings on where Scum is at in 2.0, as asked for in the OP.

Some people do go to national events without the aim of making cut. Just flying a faction and list they like and hoping to do OK. Scum can do that, despite the prevailing view of doom and gloom FFG hates us.

I find that alright, since that top 5% representation is always kind of skewed narrowly, one way or another. If you're 'competitive' and need a squad that is able to win a major in capable hands, then ofc, you hope that squad is something you love. Or you just take something you don't love so you can 'compete'.

And that's a whole other topic.

A short one.

Are Scum capable of winning worlds?

Likely not.

Ok, let's not talk about them in any positive way at all then.

Scum r bad, m'kay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Cuz05 said:

Fortunately true. I didn't mean netlist to victory though, I meant not netlist to surprisingly humiliating defeat :D

I very much acknowledge that every squad takes consummate skill to win consistantly with. I just mean that Scum needs good familiarity not to lose consistently with.

Well, that's also fair. What my post actually amounts to is a slightly less exaggerated version of what you say. I mean, I specifically say that they dont do well at the highest level and why I think that is.

And yes, they are great for casual play obviously. But if you want to make a big cut, you're probably better off not, or at least really, really knowing what you're doing. Kind of implicit in what I said there. So agreed.

That doesnt mean what i posted wasnt worth saying. There is a lot more to playing X Wing than making a national cut and Scum shouldn't be written off at all levels just because it's difficult to beat everyone and everything with them.

This forum serves more than the top 5% after all and not every conversation needs to revolve around that 5%.

They have options plenty good enough to regularly win at less than national level, IF you know what you're doing with them. Something a lot of posts on Scums relative strength seem to find dubious.

And those are my feelings on where Scum is at in 2.0, as asked for in the OP.

Some people do go to national events without the aim of making cut. Just flying a faction and list they like and hoping to do OK. Scum can do that, despite the prevailing view of doom and gloom FFG hates us.

I find that alright, since that top 5% representation is always kind of skewed narrowly, one way or another. If you're 'competitive' and need a squad that is able to win a major in capable hands, then ofc, you hope that squad is something you love. Or you just take something you don't love so you can 'compete'.

And that's a whole other topic.

A short one.

Are Scum capable of winning worlds?

Likely not.

Ok, let's not talk about them in any positive way at all then.

Scum r bad, m'kay.

I was addressing the OP's post not yours. Easy enough to confuse what mine was directed at since I didn't bother to quote. :)S&V needs to both be fun in general and competitive. Torkil will be lucky to make it past the Wave 5 points adjustment if how hard they hammered Drea and Loks is any indicator. To be honest I'm grumpy at what FFG has done to us (both in points and shafting us out of upgrades) and constant posts and pod casters saying Scum is fine when every update we have to completely rethink our faction and nothing since pre-first points adjustment has been A tier or higher competitively. Doesn't change that you can really screw with casual nights with allot of what S&V has to offer. Or I guess they just want us to play Mandos... 😒

Edited by Hiemfire

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are a fair few grumps on here that think scum is in a terrible place right now, but I agree with OP. Scum have lots of ships (good) and they have my personal "favourite" ships (good). In terms of tournament performance, I think scum are in a better spot than most people think right now. My friends and I who are flying scum are seeing good results with them. I reckon scum are being hurt most by overreaction from the community leading to a lack of popularity.

Even in hyperspace, scum have some very strong offerings. I encourage you all particularly to look at the starviper, particularly the generics. Fenn and seevor are fantastic as well.

7 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

look at what they did to Drea. Torkil is next... 😠

It's pointless to complain that a faction will be bad after the next points change. You have no idea what else will change - other scum ships could come down, and other meta monsters could go up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I saw a scum squad do really well at a recent hyperspace event here in NZ. 37 players. I think only 3-4 scum squads were played but the best of them placed 2nd overall. Pretty sure the list was...

Boba/Trickshot/Qi'ra/HLC, Fenn Rau/Predator, Lando/Tactical Officer (200pts)

Really Strong Field. Republic Jedi squad won but it was quite close in the final based on the points won/lost.

Relatively small sample size compared to larger events but goes to show you that scum still has the legs to compete at the top tables in the hands of a skilled player. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Thanks for the replies.   Even the grumps.    :D 

14 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

Your post amounts to saying "Just play them in Casual games", which for competitive players means "just don't bother with them". 

Its sad that this is how you read it.  Because this is definitely NOT what I said.  As a matter of fact.... the concept of casual and competative is not even mentioned.  I'm guessing it was read from a "competative" mindset.

My post meant to say:  "Scum is an alive and vibrant faction. We have options, go explore them".  

 

For Scum (and probably all other factions for that matter) it has always been very few ships that make it to the competition scene. It's usually a very specific combination of ships/pilot and upgrades, and only that works, everything else just pales in comparison.  And it only takes one guy to figure out, practice and make work some combination that has not been tested yet to blow up the tournament scene. 

 

And lastly there is far more to X-Wing than competitions, but this is not true for all players.  So obviously the opinion of hardcore competative players will differ from others.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Da_Brown_Bomber said:

I saw a scum squad do really well at a recent hyperspace event here in NZ. 37 players. I think only 3-4 scum squads were played but the best of them placed 2nd overall. Pretty sure the list was...

Boba/Trickshot/Qi'ra/HLC, Fenn Rau/Predator, Lando/Tactical Officer (200pts)

Really Strong Field. Republic Jedi squad won but it was quite close in the final based on the points won/lost.

Relatively small sample size compared to larger events but goes to show you that scum still has the legs to compete at the top tables in the hands of a skilled player. :)

I also took a Firespray / Fang / Escape craft list to a tournament.    (Although a much more unconventional list)

And I'm not what you would call competative, nor particularly skilled, since I get to around one or two tournaments a year.   But even I ended up in top half of the field.  More exploration required. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Bort said:

I also took a Firespray / Fang / Escape craft list to a tournament.    (Although a much more unconventional list)

And I'm not what you would call competative, nor particularly skilled, since I get to around one or two tournaments a year.   But even I ended up in top half of the field.  More exploration required. 

Let me guess. Fenn or Teroch, Boba and either L337 or Lando. Ya, so much for exploration. 2 Mandos and a YT Dart.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

🤨 And before someone brings up the Torkil/Seevor/Marauders list, look at what they did to Drea. Torkil is next... 😠

And probably Seevor. Hopefully they smash advanced optics with the same nerf hammer then.

 

Btw, Marauders with just CC and Deadman's switch do some work actually.

 

What Scum hurts is among other things:

-while it is thematic to not have much coordination in Scum (a bunch of greedy selfish basterdz), it really hurts to have only one in-faction outside source of coordination (escape craft). Everything else hurts yourself (Kato) or is depending on the enemy having green tokens (Palob, Genesis..). Now with force everywhere not many green tokens.

-which brings the second point, Scum is (again thematic) really starved in force. Imho FFF missed an opportunity not giving the Findsman 1 force. Would have made the G1A an interesting choice, not just 4Lom as the only viable with that lousy dial, which only helps him with his ability.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I love about Scum.  What I love about Scum.

Scum has a lot of individually wonderful ships/pilots.  Starvipers, man.  The perfect ship, the perfect movement mechanics.  Fenn and Fett can be beasts.  The Lancer is a large-base Interceptor (sort of).  4-LOM and Zuckuss.  Rocket-sleds...I mean, the M3-A...are just fun little guys.  Tugboats are a guilty pleasure.

But what I hate about Scum....  Individually excellent pilots struggle against whole-faction synergies.  Scum is the "fly perfect, get lucky, or die" faction.  And that's hard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, the rub with scum as people have noted is ingrained in their faction theme

They're a bunch of self-intersted ******** that only come together because you've put them in a list.

Now, Scum does have synergy!... indirectly

By which I mean, they make your opponent worse, thereby making your ships better in comparison (Ketsu, Terry, mux, Palob, tug tractor etc)

Issue being, of course, that synergy is more prevalent especially because Hyperspace gets you next to no "debuffer" pilots (it's just Terry and Seevor? And Terry is sad v force)

Anyway, the solution should be MOAR DEBUFFERS or even "thieves" (palob steals to ****), i.e BRING BACK THWEEK! The issue there, however, is stacking debuffs will **** some matchups into Oblivion.

But CiS has allowed us a way forward with "solitary", so maybe someday...

 

Until then, snapshot TIEs. Both Ahhav and Seevor synergize with it (though Seevor only procs once per round, but still)

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

Issue being, of course, that synergy is more prevalent especially because Hyperspace gets you next to no "debuffer" pilots (it's just Terry and Seevor? And Terry is sad v force)

Tbf though, most of the best Scum pilots and frames are hyperspace legal, so they don't actually lose too much of their strength there.

We more or less exclusively run Scum in HS. The tricky part is that, with the limitations, you run into more tough counters and don't have much in the way of options to create an all-comers list. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of Scum’s biggest thematic features is the ragtag individual style.  As Fickle noted, they are mostly made up of self-interested ne'er-do-wells.  There is some synchronicity, but most of it can be counted on one hand (4 of which is IG-88).  So whereas other factions can run pilots and talents that assist each other, Scum tend to...  not.  Instead it’s more that they have “dirty tricks”, that often times can affect each other.  

This all tends to lend a certain undisciplined feel to the Scum, much more than other factions like Rebels or Resistance.  At heart the Rebellion is just trying to make do with what it’s been given, but still maintains an order and cohesion.  Resistance is basically Rebels with less, and a dash of Big **** Heroes, sir.  Meanwhile the Empire, Republic, and Separatists are all cohesive military factions.  What little cohesion the Scum faction has tends to in small batches of sub-factions like Black Sun, Mandalorians, the bounty hunters, Mining Guild, the Hutt cartels, or Tansari Point.  And as thematic and cool as it is to run an entire list of Black Sun, most players dont want to limit themselves to just 3 ships.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/7/2019 at 11:55 AM, Bort said:

But all Scum ships stayed were they are, seems there is way more loyalty amongst thieves after all.

Rebel Alliance and Empire has no rancors or eating hutts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Cuz05 said:

Tbf though, most of the best Scum pilots and frames are hyperspace legal, so they don't actually lose too much of their strength there.

We more or less exclusively run Scum in HS. The tricky part is that, with the limitations, you run into more tough counters and don't have much in the way of options to create an all-comers list. 

 

Eh...I don't really feel this is the case

We've certainly got our TOP. MEN. But they're both squishy arcdodgers. Given them and the MGTS, we're not exactly drowning in variety. (Is the scum falcon still at all a thing?)

I'd really love being able to reach for casters, mux, and those hilariously cheap khirax!

Mux and khirax showed up at gen con, apparently

 

Edited by ficklegreendice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Managarmr said:

not just 4Lom as the only viable with that lousy dial

A friend of mine has been running ruckus with trick shot and qira alongside captain seevor. Ignoring rocks helps with the dial, because you can fly back and forth over it while enemies have to go around, and zuck drops a ton of dice onto your opponent. It's quite an effective build.

6 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Now, Scum does have synergy!... indirectly

By which I mean, they make your opponent worse, thereby making your ships better in comparison (Ketsu, Terry, mux, Palob, tug tractor etc)

Fickle gets it. If you can debuff an enemy ship and take advantage of it with your whole squad, that's synergy. It's not the only thing scum has, but it's one good way to build a squad.

Hyperspace might not have many scum debuff pilots, but it does have seevor, who is truly excellent at 30pts.

4 hours ago, Cuz05 said:

Tbf though, most of the best Scum pilots and frames are hyperspace legal

I'm in two minds here. On the one hand, we lose a LOT of the really interesting pilots, but we do still have some very very strong offerings in hyperspace. I think it's fair to say that while it's a bit easier for resistance and republic to build good hyperspace lists, scum are still in a very good place. Again, I encourage players to look at black sun assassins with crack shot. If you don't want to fly 4 of them, try running two with seevor and crack shot Fenn. It's good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...