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gadwag

Fireball Is Fun

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I made a negative post yesterday about mag pulse missiles, so to balance it out I'll make a positive post about something new that I think is excellent game design: the Fireball

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What's so nifty about this bucket of bolts? I'll tell you: it forces players to make hard decisions in-game to gain an advantage.

Most abilities in X-Wing only cost points, so you make the decisions at the squad building stage and then trigger the ability all the time in-game. Some abilities reward you for flying well, forcing good dial decisions. But now we have something else: deciding to take a disadvantage to try and gain an advantage.

This is fun because it gives you power and flexibility, but only at a cost (and not a points cost). Will you risk a crit to take a sneaky attack after SLAMing?

I really enjoy this style of play because it keeps the game fast paced and it means that to win you have to pay some costs! For other examples in X-Wing see inertial dampeners and inaldra. Unfortunately dampeners got broken when the cost was entirely mitigated by R2 and Han, but in scum or on Saw it was an interesting and fun upgrade.

Outside of X-Wing, the new marvel game by ffg (among others) has a similar "pay costs for abilities" mechanic where you must discard cards from your hand to pay for the card you wish to use. Tough choices make games fun!

 

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15 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

While I agree about the Fireball be decent game design, I'm still ticked about Coaxium... **** the ship screams big risk vs  big reward which was supposedly S&V's shtick... 😒

TBF, the fireball is basically a scum ship that joined the Resistance. 

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I also dig the pilot abilities, and how they tie into controlling the catastrophe.

The title appears to let you pre-select your first face-down damage card, so you can take something that's less punishing.

The IN1 appears to let you pick between all of your damage cards and expose the least punishing option.

The IN4 appears to roll an additional die if the number of damage cards on their ship is higher than the initiative of the enemy. 

And the IN5 looks like they gain the ability to perform red maneuvers based on whether their damage cards are exposed or not.

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1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

 10000% agree. Cost mechanics give your decisions meaning. If getting to a benefit requires no effort, then there's no real decision to be made

Whether it be through tokens such as force abilities or conditional rewards ala autoblasters, they're just good fun 

Agreed on all counts. TIE/ba has cost mechanics as well. I'm excited for these ships to join the fight.

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45 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

While I agree about the Fireball be decent game design, I'm still ticked about Coaxium... **** the ship screams big risk vs  big reward which was supposedly S&V's shtick... 😒

I, too, am a bit disappointed that this ship design isn't in scum (although in lore it certainly belongs with the resistance). However, the two resistance traits seem to be action-efficiency and very fast ships, and the Fireball definitely fits in the latter category. I also applaud the FFG designers for choosing such an interesting ship to add to the game. Even if we never see the other racers, this ship is a fantastic addition.

I'm also a bit less gutted now that I've remembered inaldra, inertial dampeners, and my favourite droid r5-p8, which all provide similar effects in scum.

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40 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

While I agree about the Fireball be decent game design, I'm still ticked about Coaxium... **** the ship screams big risk vs  big reward which was supposedly S&V's shtick... 😒

Big risk... and somehow pulling off the impossible; is the Fireball in a nutshell.

I think they're going to have to give the customised Falcon something to get Coaxium to work with it. The 2 ships that should have access to it over all else are the Fireball and the Scum Falcon.

17 minutes ago, gadwag said:

I, too, am a bit disappointed that this ship design isn't in scum (although in lore it certainly belongs with the resistance). However, the two resistance traits seem to be action-efficiency and very fast ships, and the Fireball definitely fits in the latter category. I also applaud the FFG designers for choosing such an interesting ship to add to the game. Even if we never see the other racers, this ship is a fantastic addition.

I'm also a bit less gutted now that I've remembered inaldra, inertial dampeners, and my favourite droid r5-p8, which all provide similar effects in scum.

The Resistance design philosophy is 'Trigger Happy Flyboys' that refuse to die. I'm sure in the course of the game's life some mechanics were bound to crossover a little with Scum's usual domain. 

The Dev's did say that Rebels "put themselves on the line to help their friends" and the Resistance's departure was that the Resistance "uses their allies to gain an advantage".

That is very close to Scum's "uses their enemies OR ALIIES to gain an advantage" mentality.

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, gadwag said:

I'm also a bit less gutted now that I've remembered inaldra, inertial dampeners, and my favourite droid r5-p8, which all provide similar effects in scum.

🤨 You have a weird idea of "similar". Fireball flips a card to remove a SLAM's disarm (so very possibly attacking from outside of the enemy's firing arc thanks to the SLAM). Coaxium Permits a blocked ship equipped with it to SLAM through the block and reposition at the cost of flipping a card or taking a crit damage (2 if stressed, the ability's effects can be used simultaneously) or SLAM even with stress for the same cost as when blocked. All 3 of your examples of similar effects are take or risk damage while only gaining a defensive (Dampeners via high Init arc dodging by not moving) or offensive (R5-P8 and Inaldra rerolls) benefit instead of gaining both as the Fireball does with it's chassis ability. Even more so with Fireball chassis ability + Coaxium (though it risks nuking itself off the board if it does, still has a much higher return value).

 Thank you, you helped me recognize that once again FFG is giving another faction capabilities that align with what S&V is supposed to do, and then making it allot better in the non-S&V faction. Let see if the cheaper part also holds up. I'm thinking the Generic will be 28 bare, 32-33 with Coaxium and Yaeger will start at 35 or 36... 😒

Edited by Hiemfire

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Punning Pundit said:

TBF, the fireball is basically a scum ship that joined the Resistance. 

This.

2 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

 the ship screams big risk vs  big reward which was supposedly S&V's shtick... 😒

Oh, no, the game has gray areas like the real world. 😑

However, I would argue that "Fireball" should have gotten a DOT.  This is a unique ship; even the generic should not be spammable.

And the Stolen TIE should be retconned to be a 1 dot CHASSIS.  You get one of this TYPE of ship, regardless of pilot chosen. 

Edited by Darth Meanie

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6 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Oh, no, the game has gray areas like the real world. 😑

🤨 This is more than "grey areas". This is "We're redefining S&V to be half assed knockoffs of almost every other faction and making sure that pay a steep premium for their watered down abilities"...

Here, a breakdown of the Fireball's ship ability + Coaxium:

1 hour ago, Hiemfire said:

Fireball flips a card to remove a SLAM's disarm (so very possibly attacking from outside of the enemy's firing arc thanks to the SLAM). Coaxium Permits a blocked ship equipped with it to SLAM through the block and reposition at the cost of flipping a card or taking a crit damage (2 if stressed, the ability's effects can be used simultaneously) or SLAM even with stress for the same cost as when blocked.

So... "Grey"... Riight...

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

🤨 This is more than "grey areas". This is "We're redefining S&V to be half assed knockoffs of almost every other faction and making sure that pay a steep premium for their watered down abilities"...

Uh, but it can 'splode.

I'll bet NO ONE plays a ship that can self destruct in tournaments. 

It'll be like Minefield Mapper that everyone had a heart attack about, and then only I actually played. 

Lastly, it's part of the lore, and since this fluff doesn't wreck gameplay (just a notion of faction identity) it doesn't seem like a big deal. 

Edited by Darth Meanie

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17 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

I'll bet NO ONE plays a ship that can self destruct in tournaments.

Yaeger + Coaxium will get table time in tournaments (I5 with the ability to Tallon roll through a block via SLAM? Some one is going to play him). Kaz may as well. 

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Posted (edited)

If you expose a damage card to get rid of the Disarm token, Advanced SLAM might let you immediately flip it back again if it's something you don't want to deal with, so that at least reduces the risk for 2 points.

(Nope.)

Edited by Rossetti1828

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23 minutes ago, Rossetti1828 said:

If you expose a damage card to get rid of the Disarm token, Advanced SLAM might let you immediately flip it back again if it's something you don't want to deal with, so that at least reduces the risk for 2 points.

If you've got a ship with SLAM that's expecting to use it a lot, Advanced SLAM is just good business. It won't let you address damage cards, though.

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Action Bar only.

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5 minutes ago, MegaSilver said:

I'm going to assume this ship chassis is going to be the Z95 for the faction. 

The dial and action bar would suggest otherwise... I'm expecting something to come along more akin to the Z-95, even in looks.

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I’ll be curious to see how the dial works with advanced SLAM. The blues are basically swapped with the Gunboat, which feels like it SLAMs for position and then wants 1 blues for range / time on target for munitions. 

The Fireball has one speed blues, but one fewer health and no shields, so if you mess up your positioning or approach, you’re going to get punished a lot more because it’s harder to escape. 

Overall I’m curious to see how it’s priced... with only 2 dice, I’m not sure how effective it will be at generating damage. It looks like it’ll have a missile slot, but you need targeting computer to set up locks.. worth the investment?

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29 minutes ago, PaulRuddSays said:

I’ll be curious to see how the dial works with advanced SLAM. The blues are basically swapped with the Gunboat, which feels like it SLAMs for position and then wants 1 blues for range / time on target for munitions. 

The Fireball has one speed blues, but one fewer health and no shields, so if you mess up your positioning or approach, you’re going to get punished a lot more because it’s harder to escape. 

 

It can have an astromech though by the looks of it, so an R4 would be pretty much stapled to it maybe? 

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33 minutes ago, Elbastido said:

It can have an astromech though by the looks of it, so an R4 would be pretty much stapled to it maybe? 

I dunno. It's a ship where actually there are multiple sensible options.

Given that it's going to be suffering face-up damaged cards a lot, R5 is good. Given that it will add speed 1 and speed 2 blue turns, R4 is great. Given that it he's amazing and offers pre-move repositioning on an already pretty manoeuvrable craft, either BB-8 or a generic BB astromech sounds good. And we haven't seen what 'Bucket' does yet.

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