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New Unit Upgrade Packs!

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Posted (edited)

Also your DLT isn't worth it against B-1s. You knock off two (assuming they have no cover or anything), they have 6 left, they move in and you die a horrible shooty death, because they can't be Suppressed, only Panicked. The RT-97c lets you still suppression snipe at range, but you might also actually theoretically do some damage to the unit if the dice are hot. The T-21 is still in a very wiggly space, like the Veteran's heavy weapon. Time will tell if players like Critical over all, some people will like the potential mods, some won't. 

EDIT: Conversely, when B-2s happen, the DLT-19 is a great option. So we'll have to see how separatist lists shake out, but they will have a somewhat different playbook. A small number of accurate dice will not be as helpful as it used to be, now you will want decently large dice pools to wade through so many rogers. 

Edited by UnitOmega

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1 hour ago, buckero0 said:

stormtroopers pack is probably going to be the least used. I still feel like the original DLT is the best "for cost" upgrade weapon. I don't think any of the other weapons are as cheap and none are as useful.  I guess we'll wait and see what the Stormtrooper captain does.  I feel like one of the Imperials is probably enough and possibly too much.  Rebel one might be cause for multiple purchases for the same reasons as the droid one.  

Agreed. I think the stormtroopers will mostly get use out of the two personnel slot minis (the new leader and the specialist). The Rebels MVP are the new heavies including range 4 shooting.

Clones? Not sure. The specialist will probably see some solid use for the surge tokens, though the heavies look good depending on the terrain and the enemy army.

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6 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

That card that gives you tactical is going to be useful, just like the Spotter upgrade electrobinoculars.

Points dependent... you’ll need the new leader mini (and it’s cost) plus the card itself. Unless you’re putting the card on a unit with the slot natively. Could be awesome, could be awful as it makes you cost as much or more than a SF

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, buckero0 said:

That card that gives you tactical is going to be useful, just like the Spotter upgrade electrobinoculars.

I guess we'll have to wait and see how exactly that card work. It doesn't plainly give you Tactical 1, as instead of saying "You gain Tactical 1" (like Arbmab for example), it begins its text with "While performing..." or something like that.

Edited by Lemmiwinks86

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Posted (edited)

Based on the length, I think it says “while performing a move action, you gain Tactical 1.”  If so, then it basically just gives you the keyword, because that’s the only time it matters anyway.

 

edit: Or maybe just “While performing a move, gain Tactical 1.”  There’s really not much room.

Edited by GooeyChewie

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Interesting to se what the new personel does, One is giving training slot for sure. 

The new rebel heavies seems a bit meh. The dlt only advantage is the range wich dosen't work with the rest of the squad. The other gun would be beast for fleets, but it still got nice dmg output and impact.

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1 hour ago, GooeyChewie said:

Based on the length, I think it says “while performing a move action, you gain Tactical 1.”  If so, then it basically just gives you the keyword, because that’s the only time it matters anyway.

That would make sense and it would matter. Normally Tactical triggers everytime you perform a 'Standard Move' - not the same as a 'Move Action'. Standard Moves are also granted from Scout and abilities like Leia's 2 Pip, for which Tactical would normally work, but be excluded by this particular Training Upgrade.

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5 hours ago, UnitOmega said:

 

EDIT: Conversely, when B-2s happen, the DLT-19 is a great option. So we'll have to see how separatist lists shake out, but they will have a somewhat different playbook. A small number of accurate dice will not be as helpful as it used to be, now you will want decently large dice pools to wade through so many rogers. 

 

DLTs do even less to B2s, Armor 1 will pull a hit and they have 2 hp each. Impact does basically nothing to Armor 1 or 2 just because unless you're rolling piles of crits, there always at least 1-2 normal hits to remove even through Impact conversions. So a long range DLT does at best 1 unless you nat roll a crit and none of this is even accounting for cover.

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Posted (edited)

DLT-19 is still two red dice, Impact 1. You'll almost always get at least one crit in that way, which means one damage (Well most of the time. They could always save, but white no surge is pretty bad). Might get lucky and get a natural crit, or fish with Imperials abundance of Aim. If anything, if you can fire two of these, you can kill a B-2 and they are R1-2 normally so you have longer engagement range. This is important vs Supers because while they are a 2 Wound unit, they only have three bodies normally, so killing one of them is a heck of a lot more impactful. The HH-12 is probably better for specific damage since that's up to Impact 3, but then you have your exhaust and cumbersome problems. EDIT: Also something to be said for using the DLT with your massed fire just at R3, when it adds Impact and you have more dice too. In that case I think the T-21 is better because up to 2 conversions and more dice, but still, you actively get to use the DLT dice mod. 

But of course, all that said, I dunno how actually popular B-2s will be. They're a lot tougher than Fleets, but people don't seem to go for saturating fleet troopers in their armies anyway, and the B-2s damage hike isn't that much compared to the normal 6-man B-1 unit AND you lose Coordinate shenanigans and a range. It'll probably really depend on how expensive those heavy weapon guys are, because I dunno if a lot of people will buy the vanilla fourth man. 

Edited by UnitOmega

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On 8/6/2019 at 7:44 PM, buckero0 said:

Id like to know the point of phase ii clones. They don't seem different enough to justify existence

Despite not having a detachment, I think the phase II clones are similar to the veterans units.  They have the training upgrade, so they have a few other tricks, as well as the increased courage.

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2 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Despite not having a detachment, I think the phase II clones are similar to the veterans units.  They have the training upgrade, so they have a few other tricks, as well as the increased courage.

True, and I think the mortar unit (Heavy) that it comes with the Phase 2s (range 2-4, Critical 1, Suppressive) is going to be very useful to clones. Anything that hands out extra suppression when you’re already down activations will be very useful. Despite Phase 1s having 4 different heavies, they don’t have anything with Suppressive.

Actually I don’t really see anything in either phase 1 or 2 that I wouldn’t consider taking in a unit. They’re all useful. 🤔

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Rebels weren't super hard on Suppressive either, they only have Jyn and the Barrage Generator option. I think it's going to be a bit more of a Separatists thing based on how that's shaking out already, but they will get an option. Empire is all about the stun weapons and mortars for the moment. What they need some more is maybe some Ion, because that's a big-bad droid thing.

 

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3 hours ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Despite not having a detachment, I think the phase II clones are similar to the veterans units.  They have the training upgrade, so they have a few other tricks, as well as the increased courage.

Phase 2 clones also have courage 2 and some more options to get free green tokens, which is huge in the context of a clone army. I think these both things will make them much more pivotal for clones than Veterans are for Rebels. Suppressive on a Weapon with range 4 and fire support might  be another situational advantage. 

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18 minutes ago, UnitOmega said:

Rebels weren't super hard on Suppressive either, they only have Jyn and the Barrage Generator option. I think it's going to be a bit more of a Separatists thing based on how that's shaking out already, but they will get an option. Empire is all about the stun weapons and mortars for the moment. What they need some more is maybe some Ion, because that's a big-bad droid thing.

 

Yeah it is funny that Clones don’t have 1 ion weapon. Maybe they’ll get droid poppers? 🤖️Worked for them in the animated show.😁

As for the Empire, I guess the single word that would describe the Empire in the movies and books, would be, Suppressive (or evil). So in game they get a LOT of Suppressive stuff and Dark Side only. That works.🧐🤓🤔😁

22 minutes ago, M.Mustermann said:

 

Phase 2 clones also have courage 2 and some more options to get free green tokens, which is huge in the context of a clone army. I think these both things will make them much more pivotal for clones than Veterans are for Rebels. Suppressive on a Weapon with range 4 and fire support might  be another situational advantage. 

A lot of people think Clones will be on par with the other factions right out of the gate, but I think they are going to need units like the Phase 2 to get there. Don’t get me wrong, I think the Clones look awesome, but I don’t think they’ll be an instant powerhouse. Because you have fewer troops, you may get more suppression on the few you have (not as many targets), so we may need that 2 in courage, especially if they have to hold an objective without a commander nearby, and the Clones don’t really have anything yet to handle the amount of suppression the Empire can dish out (unlike the Rebels).

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4 hours ago, JediPartisan said:

Yeah it is funny that Clones don’t have 1 ion weapon. Maybe they’ll get droid poppers? 🤖️Worked for them in the animated show.😁

 

You have the Barc speeder ion cannon, but it’s alot of points and it exhausts. 

As for droid poppers, there’s a face down grenade option in the phase 2 picture which could be ion grenades... I don’t expect them to be cheap

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4 hours ago, JediPartisan said:

Because you have fewer troops, you may get more suppression on the few you have (not as many targets), so we may need that 2 in courage, especially if they have to hold an objective without a commander nearby, and the Clones don’t really have anything yet to handle the amount of suppression the Empire can dish out (unlike the Rebels).

Im probably not going to play a full 800 points with clones until the tank is out (no worries odds are good it’ll take that long for me to paint it all). I plan on taking the shown Aayla pilot to make the thing a permanent “turning the tide” inspiration engine. At least until we have more tools for handling it.

I might be tempted to burn a Kenobi force slot on Hope. Originally was going to go reflexes + mind trick to try and panic something. 

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7 hours ago, JediPartisan said:

True, and I think the mortar unit (Heavy) that it comes with the Phase 2s (range 2-4, Critical 1, Suppressive) is going to be very useful to clones. Anything that hands out extra suppression when you’re already down activations will be very useful. Despite Phase 1s having 4 different heavies, they don’t have anything with Suppressive.

Actually I don’t really see anything in either phase 1 or 2 that I wouldn’t consider taking in a unit. They’re all useful. 🤔

I think they have to be more useful..  we don't see the same variety of clone armour as we do Imperial designs, so it may be that we see less variety for a republic army, barring what I expect to be a plethora of Jedi Commanders.

But FFG could just release units along the same lines as they dis with rebels and imperials in that there is a direct analog to the others faction units.  I hope that isn't the case.  I'd much rather see smaller variety of units, but more Jedi generals that let you play these units in a different style.

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5 hours ago, JediPartisan said:

A lot of people think Clones will be on par with the other factions right out of the gate, but I think they are going to need units like the Phase 2 to get there. Don’t get me wrong, I think the Clones look awesome, but I don’t think they’ll be an instant powerhouse. Because you have fewer troops, you may get more suppression on the few you have (not as many targets), so we may need that 2 in courage, especially if they have to hold an objective without a commander nearby, and the Clones don’t really have anything yet to handle the amount of suppression the Empire can dish out (unlike the Rebels).

The flip side is that with upgrades like "Hope" and the various methods for handing out and sharing aims, dodges, and surge tokens, Clones aren't quite as impacted by only having a single action as the other factions.  Having only played one 500 pt game, I don't want to go down the rabbit hole too far, but suppression both did and didn't factor in for those reasons.  I'd say the Clones biggest limitation isn't in handling suppression, but in their limited list building options. 

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On 8/6/2019 at 9:25 PM, thepopemobile100 said:

It's fluff writing. All mini's in a unit have access to the standard weapon printed on the card. In this case, all Stormtroopers have access to the E-11 just like rebel troopers all have access to the A-280.

from the description of the stormtrooper box:

Joining a Stormtrooper Captain are a Stormtrooper Specialist as well as a T-21 Stormtrooper and an RT-97C Stormtrooper that can both be constructed with their heavy weapons or the standard E-11 blaster rifle. 

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On 8/8/2019 at 12:04 AM, JediPartisan said:

Yeah it is funny that Clones don’t have 1 ion weapon. Maybe they’ll get droid poppers? 🤖️Worked for them in the animated show.😁

As for the Empire, I guess the single word that would describe the Empire in the movies and books, would be, Suppressive (or evil). So in game they get a LOT of Suppressive stuff and Dark Side only. That works.🧐🤓🤔😁

A lot of people think Clones will be on par with the other factions right out of the gate, but I think they are going to need units like the Phase 2 to get there. Don’t get me wrong, I think the Clones look awesome, but I don’t think they’ll be an instant powerhouse. Because you have fewer troops, you may get more suppression on the few you have (not as many targets), so we may need that 2 in courage, especially if they have to hold an objective without a commander nearby, and the Clones don’t really have anything yet to handle the amount of suppression the Empire can dish out (unlike the Rebels).

I actually think CIS will be able to play against the current meta right out of the gate better than Clones, I know people are down on droids, but activation control is not something to sneeze at and droids just laugh at snipers (if they had a sense of humor)

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6 hours ago, TheHoosh said:

I actually think CIS will be able to play against the current meta right out of the gate better than Clones, I know people are down on droids, but activation control is not something to sneeze at and droids just laugh at snipers (if they had a sense of humor)

Yeah, the only jokes they know are clone jokes, and they’re all the same.😳😆🤪

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