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Elcuervomuerto88

Skill Cards: Innate & Practiced

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Posted (edited)

Hi All!

I am obviously a newbie as we've played the main game about 4-5 games + Dunwich expansion few times and maybe this is the reason why I still can't understand one moment in this game. Particularly, I am talking about skill card text. Some of skill cards say that these skills are innate and some are practiced. There is no doubt in the rules that skill cards that have been committed to a skill test, then must be discarded from the player's hand and can't be used. But can someone explain to me how it can be?.. I mean how someone can lose his/her skill, especially innate... I try to think logically but rules say that it's ok when you lose your innate/practiced skill card when it's been committed to test... Until you find this card again in your card deck after some time. Of course, there are some cards that can allow you to bring these skill cards back to hand when activated but anyway... Please advise what is right and wrong in my understanding? I just want to play fair and get rid of these doubts. 😕

Thanks! 

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Edited by Elcuervomuerto88

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Those are traits.  Mostly they're just flavor, though as you say, sometimes other cards interact with them.  Don't overthink the theme; it sounds like you're playing them correctly -- commit them to make a skill test easier to pass, resolve any text on them, then discard them.

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You have to simply accept that the game is ultimately a card game, not an RPG, and that game mechanics must take precedence over verisimilitude.

That said, as others have already stated, it's relatively easy to explain why skill cards are single-use. By their nature, they represent a single instance where your innate abilities, training, tenacity, etc., grant you a momentary ability to go beyond your normal limits. Overpower represents a momentary burst of strength or adrenaline. Vicious Blow represents you noticing an opening for a particularly lethal blow - but such openings don't appear every time you pull the trigger. Deduction allows you to make a singular leap of logic when you find a certain clue. And so on, and so forth. Skills allow you to make an extra effort just this once; cards that provide a consistent increase in your potential are Assets - particularly Talent assets, such as Physical Training or Well Prepared.

If you are concerned with the believability of events as expressed through the game, there are far more obvious issues. Why do I need to wait until I draw my .45 Automatic from my deck - surely it's right there, in my holster? Why don't my Allies all start in play, surely they aren't suddenly coming to meet up with me once I'm already in the middle of the enemy base?

To be certain, there are things in the game that are so ridiculous that they really tax one's willing suspension of disbelief, but I wouldn't say the underlying mechanism behind Skill cards is one of them. These would include: The Colt Vest Pocket pistol disintegrates the turn it is played, and is impossible to have ready to use ahead of time; Lockpicks don't help deal with the Locked Door treachery, but work just fine to help investigate the jungle, empty sand dunes, underground lakes or an eldritch flux of manifest unreality; and basically everything to do with Supplies in TFA. But there's also some incredible flavour out there, such as the Dumb Luck/Oops!/"Look what I found!" cards and literally everything to do with Cherished Keepsake, so you take the good with the bad.

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, CSerpent said:

Those are traits.  Mostly they're just flavor, though as you say, sometimes other cards interact with them.  Don't overthink the theme; it sounds like you're playing them correctly -- commit them to make a skill test easier to pass, resolve any text on them, then discard them.

 

11 hours ago, Carthoris said:

I think that "innate" and "practiced" keywords complement each other and distinguish skills that are organic features of the investigator on the one hand from those that are acquired through conscious training on the other.

 

5 hours ago, Allonym said:

You have to simply accept that the game is ultimately a card game, not an RPG, and that game mechanics must take precedence over verisimilitude.

That said, as others have already stated, it's relatively easy to explain why skill cards are single-use. By their nature, they represent a single instance where your innate abilities, training, tenacity, etc., grant you a momentary ability to go beyond your normal limits. Overpower represents a momentary burst of strength or adrenaline. Vicious Blow represents you noticing an opening for a particularly lethal blow - but such openings don't appear every time you pull the trigger. Deduction allows you to make a singular leap of logic when you find a certain clue. And so on, and so forth. Skills allow you to make an extra effort just this once; cards that provide a consistent increase in your potential are Assets - particularly Talent assets, such as Physical Training or Well Prepared.

If you are concerned with the believability of events as expressed through the game, there are far more obvious issues. Why do I need to wait until I draw my .45 Automatic from my deck - surely it's right there, in my holster? Why don't my Allies all start in play, surely they aren't suddenly coming to meet up with me once I'm already in the middle of the enemy base?

To be certain, there are things in the game that are so ridiculous that they really tax one's willing suspension of disbelief, but I wouldn't say the underlying mechanism behind Skill cards is one of them. These would include: The Colt Vest Pocket pistol disintegrates the turn it is played, and is impossible to have ready to use ahead of time; Lockpicks don't help deal with the Locked Door treachery, but work just fine to help investigate the jungle, empty sand dunes, underground lakes or an eldritch flux of manifest unreality; and basically everything to do with Supplies in TFA. But there's also some incredible flavour out there, such as the Dumb Luck/Oops!/"Look what I found!" cards and literally everything to do with Cherished Keepsake, so you take the good with the bad.

Thank you All for your explanations!

Anyway I would like to ask another question about the rules though it's not about skill cards... It's about fight mechanics itself. We argued a lot about this situation and still don't have clear understanding. 

If there are several enemies in the same location (for example, 2) with an investigator & he/she engages with both, will one of them perform attack of opportunity when you spend one of your actions attacking or evading from the 1st enemy? I mean if you have, for example, 3-4 strong enemies in your threat zone and tries to attack/evade from first one of them, all the rest should (ot shouldn't) deal damage to you? Because if they do, the investigator can easily die very quickly if such situation occurs because most of them are really weak, honestly. Of course, you can have some assets or companions with you at the moment that can absorb some damage but it's still tough situation. Please explain this moment to me.

 

And another question: If you evade an enemy successfully and it's exhausted and you no longer engage with that enemy, can this enemy card still be played during this round? I mean, can another investigator spend actions to engage/fight this exhausted enemy or this enemy card is no active in any way until it's ready in the upkeep phase?

Thank you! 

Edited by Elcuervomuerto88

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If you are engaged with an enemy and spend an action to do anything other than Fight, Evade, or activate a Parley or Resign ability, each enemy engaged with you makes an attack of opportunity. (copied from the Actions card included in the core set)

So no, attacking or evading one will not provoke from the other as the action does not provoke.  However if you performed any action other than the four listed in bold above it would provoke from all enemies engaged with you. 

 

An evaded enemy can still be fought and engaged, but there is rarely a reason to spend an action to engage an exhausted enemy.  Usually the action would be better spent attacking or moving.  Example reasons to engage an evaded enemy are because it has the Aloof keyword or having a machete or Zoey's Cross in play.

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1 hour ago, Redclock said:

If you are engaged with an enemy and spend an action to do anything other than Fight, Evade, or activate a Parley or Resign ability, each enemy engaged with you makes an attack of opportunity. (copied from the Actions card included in the core set)

So no, attacking or evading one will not provoke from the other as the action does not provoke.  However if you performed any action other than the four listed in bold above it would provoke from all enemies engaged with you. 

 

An evaded enemy can still be fought and engaged, but there is rarely a reason to spend an action to engage an exhausted enemy.  Usually the action would be better spent attacking or moving.  Example reasons to engage an evaded enemy are because it has the Aloof keyword or having a machete or Zoey's Cross in play.

 

1 hour ago, DarkFate said:

Fight, evade, parley and resign doesn't trigger any attack of opportunity at all.

You can still fight it. You don't have to engage it to fight it unless it has aloof.

Ok, thanks.

But, for example, if the exhausted enemy has a key word Retaliate, does it deal damage if you fail fight test with it? 

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Elcuervomuerto88 said:

 

But, for example, if the exhausted enemy has a key word Retaliate, does it deal damage if you fail fight test with it? 

No. 

The rules for the Retaliate keyword are: Each time an investigator fails a skill test while attacking a ready enemy with the retaliate keyword, after applying all results for that skill test, that enemy performs an attack against the attacking investigator. (from the Rules Reference, "Retaliate"; emphasis mine) 

Edited by Allonym

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, Allonym said:

No. 

The rules for the Retaliate keyword are: Each time an investigator fails a skill test while attacking a ready enemy with the retaliate keyword, after applying all results for that skill test, that enemy performs an attack against the attacking investigator. (from the Rules Reference, "Retaliate"; emphasis mine) 

Thank you for advice!

One more question. Some enemy cards have +... health per investigator, for example, like this boss from the base game. Does it mean it has 10 health (base score 6 + 4 score for 1 more investigator) scores or 14 health scores if we play 2. So if I play alone, it would be 6, and not 10? Please clarify. 

AHC01_157.jpg

Edited by Elcuervomuerto88

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For every investigator that starts the scenario you add 4 additional health to the six listed.

1 player game = 10 health

2 player game = 14 health

3 player game = 18 health

4 player game = 22 health

Any time it says “per investigator” (such as for clues or doom) this value does not change if investigators are eliminated along the way.

Seeing as you like our videos here is the tutorial that explains that. :) It’s at 2.10 if you don’t want to watch the part about “Elimination.”

https://youtu.be/SHAiP6sLw5M 

 

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Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, DarkFate said:

It would have 10 health for 1 player.

 

46 minutes ago, ArkhamChronicle said:

For every investigator that starts the scenario you add 4 additional health to the six listed.

1 player game = 10 health

2 player game = 14 health

3 player game = 18 health

4 player game = 22 health

Any time it says “per investigator” (such as for clues or doom) this value does not change if investigators are eliminated along the way.

Seeing as you like our videos here is the tutorial that explains that. :) It’s at 2.10 if you don’t want to watch the part about “Elimination.”

https://youtu.be/SHAiP6sLw5M 

 

Thank you. As I thought it would be 10 health per investigator as base indicator + 10 health scores for each next investigator. So 2 players = 20 health scores to crush. It's good that it's only 14 hs for 2 players. 

I have one additional question:

In the base game in scenario 2 midnight masks there are 5 unique cultists that you can push to surrender by various means. If no one from them is discarded during this scenario, they all go to the next one № 3, are their card texts still actual there? I mean I still can parley with all of them (except that 1 who needs to be killed only) when I meet them during 3rd scenario or they must be killed one by one without mercy? 👺

By the way, regarding Umordhoth, I read all Lovecraft's books but it was several years ago and maybe I just forgot it, but I can't remember such Ancient one in any of his novels...

Edited by Elcuervomuerto88

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33 minutes ago, Elcuervomuerto88 said:

I have one additional question:

In the base game in scenario 2 midnight masks there are 5 unique cultists that you can push to surrender by various means. If no one from them is discarded during this scenario, they all go to the next one № 3, are their card texts still actual there? I mean I still can parley with all of them (except that 1 who needs to be killed only) when I meet them during 3rd scenario or they must be killed one by one without mercy? 👺

From memory I don't believe there is any effect during the scenario that forbids the cultists from being parleyed with or removes their text, so you can still use diplomacy if you want.

35 minutes ago, Elcuervomuerto88 said:

By the way, regarding Umordhoth, I read all Lovecraft's books but it was several years ago and maybe I just forgot it, but I can't remember such Ancient one in any of his novels...

I think I remember reading somewhere that Umordhoth was specially created by FFG for their Arkham Files universe as a "tutorial/introduction" Ancient One. I've not played many of the other games, so I don't know if the card game was Umordhoth's first appearance.

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1 hour ago, Elcuervomuerto88 said:

 

By the way, regarding Umordhoth, I read all Lovecraft's books but it was several years ago and maybe I just forgot it, but I can't remember such Ancient one in any of his novels...

Umordhoth is an invention of FFG for the Arkham Horror Card Game. It has subsequently been referenced in Eldritch Horror (only in the Masks of Nyarlathotep expansion, which came out after the Card Game was first released) and in the Arkham Horror board game, 3rd edition.

However, it is very much the Mythos deity Mordiggian with the serial numbers filed off, being worshipped by ghouls, being kind of creepy and nasty but not purely evil, and being willing to spare those who have not earned its wrath. Even the appearance is the same, "Its form was that of a worm-shapen column, huge as a dragon, its further coils still issuing from the gloom of the corridor[...]" - which is very similar to the art of Umordhoth:

01157.jpg  01145b.jpg

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First off. it's a card game. Cards are used to abstract the events that transpire through the story. 

Playing Manual dexterity is representative of a particular moment of agility or finesse. "I could scarcely believe anyone might be able to fight that thing but seing Rita weaving through the tentacles like it were a dance made me feel like anything were possible!"

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Posted (edited)

Hi All!

I have 3 new questions about card texts, this time it's about treachery cards & 1 asset. 

1. Treachery card Dissonant Voices says - you cannot play assets or events. Does it mean that I can't play assets from my hand to my game zone in next investigator phase or I can't use my already in-game assets next round? 

2. Jim's Trumpet card says - when a skull token is revealed during a skill test, exhaust Jim's Trumpet: Heal 1 horror from an investigator at your location or a connecting location. Does it mean it works only when I (Jim) am the investigator who reveales this token, or if someone else from the players reveale skull token, I can exhaust this card and follow its text?

3. Treachery card Mysterious Chanting (I don't have photo, sorry)- its text says if there are no cultists in the game I should find it in the encounter deck and card pile and put into the game. Should I still put 2 doom tokens on this cultist or not? 

Thank you! 

AHC01_165.jpg

AHC02_12.jpg

Edited by Elcuervomuerto88

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Elcuervomuerto88 said:

Hi All!

I have 3 new questions about card texts, this time it's about treachery cards & 1 asset. 

1. Treachery card Dissonant Voices says - you cannot play assets or events. Does it mean that I can't play assets from my hand to my game zone in next investigator phase or I can't use my already in-game assets next round? 

2. Jim's Trumpet card says - when a skull token is revealed during a skill test, exhaust Jim's Trumpet: Heal 1 horror from an investigator at your location or a connecting location. Does it mean it works only when I (Jim) am the investigator who reveales this token, or if someone else from the players reveale skull token, I can exhaust this card and follow its text?

3. Treachery card Mysterious Chanting (I don't have photo, sorry)- its text says if there are no cultists in the game I should find it in the encounter deck and card pile and put into the game. Should I still put 2 doom tokens on this cultist or not? 

Thank you!

1) You can’t play assets from your hand. You may still use assets you have previously played.

2) You can use it when any investigator at your any location draws a skull token.

3) If there are no cultists then you spawn a cultist from the encounter deck or discard pile but do not put 2 doom tokens on it. You may still need to put doom on it because of text on the cultist card though, e.g. Acolytes get one doom added to them when they spawn.

Hope that helps!

Edited by Assussanni
Mistake in A2.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Assussanni said:

2) You can use it when any investigator at your location draws a skull token.

Or connecting location, right? As it's said in the card text: Heal 1 horror from an investigator at your location or a connecting location.

Edited by Elcuervomuerto88

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2 hours ago, Elcuervomuerto88 said:

Or connecting location, right? As it's said in the card text: Heal 1 horror from an investigator at your location or a connecting location.

Sorry, my mistake. It can be any investigator at any location who draws the skull token. You can then heal horror from one investigator at either Jim's location or a location connected to Jim's location.

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Hi All!

There is a card in the game from Dunwich Legacy, ally Dr. Francis Morgan. This card has two icons - fist & wild but in the text of this card it's said that you have +1 to fight also. Please explain does it mean that totally you have 1 wild & 2 fight icons when skill testing or not? There are many such cards in the game on which there are particular icons in the top left + some extras in its text. Do they summarize?

Thank you!

C__Data_Users_DefApps_AppData_INTERNETEXPLORER_Temp_Saved Images_AHC02_80.jpg

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