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TechnoGolem

What heroes do you think we'll get next?

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Posted (edited)

I always think of him at headmaster for the New Mutants because that's when I started reading.  So I always think of Magneto as basically an ineffectual/negligent teacher.

Edited by phillos

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4 hours ago, cheapmate said:

Would the intended audience for the LCG consist more of comic book readers or solely movie watchers? Just wondering

Personally, when I think of Magneto I think of him as the X-Man he has been for a long time instead of the Gandalf movie version

May not be a good idea to focus only on the comics readers. I'd prefer if they did that but comic sales have been abysmal over the last few years.

It's a tiny audience compared to what it once was. I wouldn't be surprised if the comics division of Marvel and DC close down in the next decade.

Lost count of how many comic shops closed down or started selling other stuff in hope of making a profit. 

I'd love to see Magneto has a hero but it would probably best to start with him as a villain. It's what he is best known for to the general public.

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I don't think anybody is saying focus only on any facet. I suspect that they'll focus on all of them. Nostalgia, movies, comics (and I think the nostalgia audience and the comics audience are very different).

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The comic store has many issues.  A reduced comic customer base has been a wide spread reality since the 90's crash.  Though it was clearly following a collector bubble that was not sustainable.  That said comics as a storytelling medium themselves aren't going anywhere.  The physical sale of issues continue to decline, but that has alot to do with the rise of the trade paperback market and digital distribution.  Both of which has only gotten more popular as time has gone on. 

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7 hours ago, TechnoGolem said:

May not be a good idea to focus only on the comics readers. I'd prefer if they did that but comic sales have been abysmal over the last few years.

It's a tiny audience compared to what it once was. I wouldn't be surprised if the comics division of Marvel and DC close down in the next decade.

Lost count of how many comic shops closed down or started selling other stuff in hope of making a profit. 

I'd love to see Magneto has a hero but it would probably best to start with him as a villain. It's what he is best known for to the general public.

Really?  If this is the case, then why do the card images all come from the comics?  And why is everyone talking about comic book characters that they want to see, and not the MCU characters?

4 hours ago, phillos said:

The comic store has many issues.  A reduced comic customer base has been a wide spread reality since the 90's crash.  Though it was clearly following a collector bubble that was not sustainable.  That said comics as a storytelling medium themselves aren't going anywhere.  The physical sale of issues continue to decline, but that has alot to do with the rise of the trade paperback market and digital distribution.  Both of which has only gotten more popular as time has gone on. 

This is very true.  I think the trade paperback in particular is a major reason of the decrease in comic magazine sales.  While I prefer to buy the individual issues, the convenience of the paperback does have a strong appeal.  But regardless of the form, the medium itself isn't going anywhere anytime soon.  

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1 hour ago, Supertoe said:

I think it's fair to ask why a company that people pride on creativity rarely makes a new character.

They make quite a few new characters I would say (or at least used to when I was reading comics) but a lot of those characters don’t really stick around in any significant way...

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There aren’t as many new characters because Marvel and DC don’t share IP ownership with the character creator. If they gave the writer a percentage of the character then you’d see a ton of new ones. They’re not out of ideas (see the excellent work being done at Image, Valiant and IDW), they’re out of incentive to create those ideas.

As for the comic medium, it isn’t going anywhere, it is just evolving. Digital sales and direct buy from Previews through DCBS and other services are what is hurting the local comic shop. Add in that most comic shop owners aren’t businessmen with liquid capital around to weather downturns and lack the vision to combat online sales. I pick up about 30 books a month, but I order through DCBS. Not only to get 35% off. I’d gladly support a local shop instead if I had one around that was clean, made new comic day a social event, and had the selection I want. Stores struggling doesn’t mean the medium is struggling. It’s still a billion/year business.

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3 hours ago, gokubb said:

There aren’t as many new characters because Marvel and DC don’t share IP ownership with the character creator. If they gave the writer a percentage of the character then you’d see a ton of new ones. They’re not out of ideas (see the excellent work being done at Image, Valiant and IDW), they’re out of incentive to create those ideas.

This ^^^^

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On 8/16/2019 at 11:48 AM, TechnoGolem said:

May not be a good idea to focus only on the comics readers. I'd prefer if they did that but comic sales have been abysmal over the last few years.

It's a tiny audience compared to what it once was. I wouldn't be surprised if the comics division of Marvel and DC close down in the next decade.

Lost count of how many comic shops closed down or started selling other stuff in hope of making a profit. 

Unfortunately, I think this is all true.  If Marvel and DC would cater their books more to normies, their stuff would sell.  It's no mystery why their old stuff, back issues, reprints, etc. sell better.  It's because it is better.  There's nothing wrong with "moving forward," you really just need to understand who your audience is.  Marvel and DC have forgotten that, and they don't know who their audience truly is anymore.  Instead they listen to the loudest voices and try to market to that.  The loudest voices don't buy comics, which has become painfully evident for everyone except Marvel and DC.

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21 hours ago, gokubb said:

There aren’t as many new characters because Marvel and DC don’t share IP ownership with the character creator. If they gave the writer a percentage of the character then you’d see a ton of new ones. They’re not out of ideas (see the excellent work being done at Image, Valiant and IDW), they’re out of incentive to create those ideas.

 

17 hours ago, Supertoe said:

This ^^^^

This ^^^^ is incorrect

New characters are introduced all the time, there just needs to be a good balance between the old and the new

If I buy a Justice League comic it is fun to see new characters, but I also want to see Batman, Wonder Woman and/or Superman

You are correct about one thing, if writers are given a percentage of every new character they create, every issue would have a new Justice League line-up and who wants that?

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Posted (edited)

The big two have long struggled with what would make new readers jump into the hobby.  I'd say sometimes to the exclusion of it's established reader base.  The new 52 and Marvel Now were exactly initiatives to accomplished that exact goal.  I wasn't a fan of either, but I was an established fan.  I just kinda endured it.  I'm not sure either move really brought a flood of new readers into the hobby.  It had made the new stuff more trade paperback friendly so I guess that's an upside for people who enjoy comics only through that lens.

 

7 minutes ago, cheapmate said:

 

This ^^^^ is incorrect

New characters are introduced all the time, there just needs to be a good balance between the old and the new

If I buy a Justice League comic it is fun to see new characters, but I also want to see Batman, Wonder Woman and/or Superman

You are correct about one thing, if writers are given a percentage of every new character they create, every issue would have a new Justice League line-up and who wants that? 

That was an issue in the late 80's and early 90's.  Every issue was a number 1, every issue was a new roster of characters.  It was very tiring.  It was very much creators throwing a bunch of stuff at the wall and seeing what stuck.  It is sort of the same environment we live in now.

Edited by phillos

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13 hours ago, urloony said:

Unfortunately, I think this is all true.  If Marvel and DC would cater their books more to normies, their stuff would sell.  It's no mystery why their old stuff, back issues, reprints, etc. sell better.  It's because it is better.  There's nothing wrong with "moving forward," you really just need to understand who your audience is.  Marvel and DC have forgotten that, and they don't know who their audience truly is anymore.  Instead they listen to the loudest voices and try to market to that.  The loudest voices don't buy comics, which has become painfully evident for everyone except Marvel and DC.

I agree.  Most of the new Marvel characters and plot-lines from the past five years have been aimed a fringe groups within the comics community, not the tried-and-true fans.  While I did enjoy the Sam Wilson (Falcon) as Captain America series, it was the exception to the norm.  If Marvel wants to keep their fans, they need to stick to the characters that made them so famous in the first place.

That being said, I would love to see Falcon America vs. "Stevil" Rogers as a scenario pack.

Image result for falcon americaImage result for captain america hydra suit

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Judging by what is posted here, there is a big mix of opinions on what is apparently “needed” in a multi-million dollar industry 😅

One says new characters are needed urgently, while another says change is bad

Guess I’m in the middle (I loved **** Grayson Batman and Bucky Barnes Captain America, but prefer old-school Nick Fury over Sam Jackson Fury), but for certain comics top movies any day

 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, cheapmate said:

New characters are introduced all the time, there just needs to be a good balance between the old and the new

If I buy a Justice League comic it is fun to see new characters, but I also want to see Batman, Wonder Woman and/or Superman

You are correct about one thing, if writers are given a percentage of every new character they create, every issue would have a new Justice League line-up and who wants that?

Instead of new characters we get iconic heroes repackaged as new characters.  If a character is good, well written, and offered with quality artwork it will sell, hence the success of many indie comics.  Marvel and DC have inherited reboot-itis from Hollywood, trying to sell terrible ideas on name recognition.  If a character is garbage, stories are poor and the dialogue is drivel, it won't matter if you call it Ironman or Ms. Marvel it will eventually fail and be cancelled.

Edited by urloony

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1 hour ago, cheapmate said:

Judging by what is posted here, there is a big mix of opinions on what is apparently “needed” in a multi-million dollar industry 😅

One says new characters are needed urgently, while another says change is bad

Guess I’m in the middle (I loved **** Grayson Batman and Bucky Barnes Captain America, but prefer old-school Nick Fury over Sam Jackson Fury), but for certain comics top movies any day

 

And there is nothing wrong with that.  I prefer old-school Fury too, especially in the Nick Fury, Agent of SHIELD comic series.  Sadly, I'm with Hydra. :) 

Image result for nick fury agent of shield 1

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Hydra-Cap...  I really disliked that story and unfortunately it's hung over his book like a shadow ever since because you don't just snap back from that regardless of how it was resolved.  A big misstep in my opinion especially if you want to bring in readers off of the MCU depiction.

1 hour ago, urloony said:

Instead of new characters we get iconic heroes repackaged as new characters.  If a character is good, well written, and offered with quality artwork it will sell, hence the success of many indie comics.  Marvel and DC have inherited reboot-itis from Hollywood, trying to sell terrible ideas on name recognition.  If a character is garbage, stories are poor and the dialogue is drivel, it won't matter if you call it Ironman or Ms. Marvel it will eventually fail and be cancelled.

Though the writing on Iron Man has been bad for a long time in my opinion in the comics and he seems to sell reasonably well for a comic in this environment.  The power of an established brand I suppose, which is at the heart of this discussion.  Also just because I dislike it doesn't mean other people feel the same way.  Some people love that Arno Stark stuff I'm sure. 

I don't mind giving the costume over to a new character.  That's fine.  My issue usually is going back and monkeying with a characters origin story.  That's really when I get a frown on.  Making Sam Captain America doesn't destroy Steve Rogers or my enjoyment of the character.  Giving Sam Alexander a Nova helmet doesn't make the Richard Rider run any less good.  Going back and changing Tony's parentage or Carol's lineage is problematic.  Even Spiderman they monkey-ed with when they wrote that Spider Totem stuff.  Never a good idea in my opinion especially when these characters already had great origin stories.  It almost never adds anything and almost always takes value away in my opinion.  I don't know if it's misguided editorial direction or writers wanted to put their stamp on a character but it always leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

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On 8/6/2019 at 4:45 AM, TechnoGolem said:

We already know the next two heroes are Captain America and Miss Marvel but what other heroes do you think will get as singles next year?

Black Widow and Dr. Strange both seem like safe bets. Both characters are well known and have movies coming out next year that can help boost sales.

Marvel has been pushing Spider Gwen and Miles lately so they also seem like a safe bet.

Shang-Chi or Lady Thor also have a decent chance due to getting movies. I know the game is based on the comics but, let's be honest, most people probably know these characters due to the movies.

I'm a bit doubtful they will make a core pack for the Eternals. They may be getting a movie but it sounds like they made some major changes to the characters. FFG or Disney might have problems with which version they want the other to use. Really hope FFG sticks to comics for a uniform art style. I never touched the movie packs from Marvel Legendary.

I could see the Fantastic Four or the X-Men getting a release towards the end of the year. We'll probably get a set based on Guardians of the Galaxy next.

I'll make the jump into the game depending on what chars appear in the lineup.
As long as at least a few of my favourites aren't in the game like Doctor Doom, War Machine, Blade, Wolverine, Psylocke and Moon Knight i'll skip probably.
Only Iron Man is currently playable among the core set that I really like.

Hence to me it'll be important to see what they'll announce for next year.

 

Judging by business common sense (but that is sometimes difficult to find) but also IP restrictions (who knows what the license stipulates), the safest bet for them is to start with heroes/villains and plots that entirely or partially popped up in the movies. Guardians of the Galaxy, Phase 1-2 Avengers, Loki, Ultron, Thanos, Red Skull...
Not really my favourites with a few exceptions but the most logical ones.
As the wider audience doesn't care about the comics unlike me.
And I doubt many will find for example Moon Knight an instant sale reason. (they'll probably just say: what's this bizarre Batman knockoff).

 

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12 hours ago, phillos said:

I don't mind giving the costume over to a new character.  That's fine.  My issue usually is going back and monkeying with a characters origin story.  That's really when I get a frown on.  Making Sam Captain America doesn't destroy Steve Rogers or my enjoyment of the character.  Giving Sam Alexander a Nova helmet doesn't make the Richard Rider run any less good.  Going back and changing Tony's parentage or Carol's lineage is problematic.  Even Spiderman they monkey-ed with when they wrote that Spider Totem stuff.  Never a good idea in my opinion especially when these characters already had great origin stories.  It almost never adds anything and almost always takes value away in my opinion.  I don't know if it's misguided editorial direction or writers wanted to put their stamp on a character but it always leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

No, the worst thing they did to Spider-Man was erase his marriage to MJ.  That was beyond stupid, and it destroyed the quintessential love story of the Marvel universe.  I'm not a huge fan of the Arno Stark nonsense, but that's easier to swallow given what Howard Stark's personality was like.

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1 hour ago, Darthvegeta8000 said:

Judging by business common sense (but that is sometimes difficult to find) but also IP restrictions (who knows what the license stipulates), the safest bet for them is to start with heroes/villains and plots that entirely or partially popped up in the movies. Guardians of the Galaxy, Phase 1-2 Avengers, Loki, Ultron, Thanos, Red Skull...

Not really my favourites with a few exceptions but the most logical ones.
As the wider audience doesn't care about the comics unlike me.
And I doubt many will find for example Moon Knight an instant sale reason. (they'll probably just say: what's this bizarre Batman knockoff).

 

I think the fact that they've used characters like She-Hulk, Mockingbird, Black Cat, The Wrecking Crew, Tygra, and Ms Marvel shows that they not only probably have access to the entire Marvel IP, but they aren't just going to prop themselves up by focusing mostly on movie only characters. 

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1 hour ago, Paladin Ignatius said:

No, the worst thing they did to Spider-Man was erase his marriage to MJ.  That was beyond stupid, and it destroyed the quintessential love story of the Marvel universe.  I'm not a huge fan of the Arno Stark nonsense, but that's easier to swallow given what Howard Stark's personality was like.

They wanted to snap the character back to his roots because they thought he was getting to far away from his core concept.  While I can understand that (and maybe even agree that Spiderman works better as a kid trying to make his way in the work), I do think this is the exact example where getting a new kid in the Spiderman costume would have been a better choice.  Let Peter grow up and start a family (stay in the comic continuity) and mentor someone new.  I agree handling it the way they did turned me off from reading Spiderman comics.  Pulling the rug out like that makes it so you can't really get invested.  That probably was the worst thing they did to Spiderman, but I still really hate that Spider Totem stuff.

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