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theBitterFig

How Good Are Autoblasters? Actual Mathematical Results!

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4 minutes ago, Averross said:

I'm not sure I follow the reasoning behind Autoblasters tending to do more damage without focus.

Higher chance to get a crit result if you use the re-roll from spending a Lock. While attacking outside of the target's front arc crits from auto blasters cannot be canceled by evade results during the neutralize results step. Focuses that were changed to hits can still be neutralized.

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1 minute ago, Hiemfire said:

Higher chance to get a crit result if you use the re-roll from spending a Lock. While attacking outside of the target's front arc crits from auto blasters cannot be canceled by evade results during the neutralize results step. Focuses that were changed to hits can still be neutralized.

Okay, so they tend to do less damage if you have focus instead of a target lock. I'd imagine that barrel rolling into a better position is further better than target locking.

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9 minutes ago, Averross said:

Okay, so they tend to do less damage if you have focus instead of a target lock. I'd imagine that barrel rolling into a better position is further better than target locking.

Depends on the ship. If you're shooting at a target and cannot modify your attack roll due to repositioning (as happens with a Scyk if you don't already have a Lock) it is a straight bare dice roll, so very rng dependent. With @theBitterFig's calculations I think the Autoblasters vs Focus sections are Autoblasters vs a primary attack modded by a Focus token.

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1 hour ago, Averross said:

I'm not sure I follow the reasoning behind Autoblasters tending to do more damage without focus.

They don't do more damage when you have no focus, they add more damage. If you have a focus, then a regular shot and an autoblaster shot have similar expected damage. If you have no focus, the expected damage of a regular shot drops a lot, and the expected damage of an autoblaster also drops, but not as much

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2 hours ago, Averross said:

I'm not sure I follow the reasoning behind Autoblasters tending to do more damage without focus.

So @gadwag got it.  There's more damage *added* by the Autoblasters effect on attacks without Focus.   The Autoblasters effect really only adds damage when your opponent would roll as many evades as you have hits, but you have some crits in there to go uncancellable.  As a result, the situation where Autoblasters is going to add more damage over a primary attack on the same number of dice is when you're attacking without dice mods, because unmodified attacks are more likely to be evaded.

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11 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

So @gadwag got it.  There's more damage *added* by the Autoblasters effect on attacks without Focus.   The Autoblasters effect really only adds damage when your opponent would roll as many evades as you have hits, but you have some crits in there to go uncancellable.  As a result, the situation where Autoblasters is going to add more damage over a primary attack on the same number of dice is when you're attacking without dice mods, because unmodified attacks are more likely to be evaded.

 

To further support this with an example:

A 2-red shot hitting Fel at range 2 behind a cloud, with an evade token and Emperor himself watching - even with a focus and a reroll on attack - is just not going to happen. Toss an unblockable crit on there and Fel is sweating.

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22 minutes ago, Roller of blanks said:

Gavin darklighter would like to know your location

Oh yeah. That guy exists. 
*looks up his cost*
*looks at ships in rebels which can take Autoblasters*

Nah I think we're safe from the Autorebels meta.
 

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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, Roller of blanks said:

Gavin darklighter would like to know your location

He's the reason I ought to add the numbers for 2 red dice with Marksmanship...

4 minutes ago, Polda said:

Oh yeah. That guy exists. 
*looks up his cost*
*looks at ships in rebels which can take Autoblasters*

Nah I think we're safe from the Autorebels meta.
 

Likely true.  Gavin + 3Bs probably isn't great overall, but probably not the worst trash.

Edited by theBitterFig

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Roller of blanks said:

Gavin darklighter would like to know your location

Saw someone play Marksman Autoblaster BWings with Gavin and AP5 a few nights back. Despite playing fairly poorly, can confirm that it punches holes in the right circumstances. I wouldn't think enough to make it a strong competitive list, but you can definitely surprise people. Anything without shields just ceases to exist if you are flanked by them.... if you can flank with them.

Could Defenders be ok with them? I feel that they can get out of Arc often enough to justify the small cost if you have the points to spare..... Maybe Rex with Marksman +/- Fire Control? Make for an interesting change up from Juke, certainly cheaper. It's a shame/mercy that Krennic does not work with them... that would get very disgusting very quickly.
You run in to the 3 dice problem, but for 2 points on an already-greater-than-80-point ship, it doesn't seem to be a big deal if the points are available and the bid is either not there or not worth it.
As with BWings, I don't feel that you can get weight of numbers and mobility, like you can with massed Scyks and Gunboats... so maybe not for generics unless you already have the points available...?

Edited by Vespid1311
minor edit

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18 hours ago, Polda said:

Oh yeah. That guy exists. 
*looks up his cost*
*looks at ships in rebels which can take Autoblasters*

Nah I think we're safe from the Autorebels meta.
 

it's just the B-Wing, right?

God help us if they ever give it a crew seat again and someone puts on Saw and an Autoblaster

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1 hour ago, skotothalamos said:

it's just the B-Wing, right?

God help us if they ever give it a crew seat again and someone puts on Saw and an Autoblaster

Rebels - B-Wings
Empire - Lambda, Defender and Gunboat with a title I think?
Scum - IGs, Firespray, Scyks, YV-666, G1-As with the Title? 
FO - Upsilon, but really, why would you?
Resistance - Transports and X-Wings
Republic - Nothing so far?
Separatists - Infiltrator
 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

I think that's everything. I'm not sure what Republic ship would credibly even have the cannon upgrade, unless they bring out the Midnight as a large ship.

Assuming you mean the G9 Rigger Twilight I have to ask - do we need another ship piloted by Annoying Skywalker?

If we get a fourth Anakin ship before Yoda, the players will riot.

Edited by Polda

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43 minutes ago, Polda said:

Assuming you mean the G9 Rigger Twilight I have to ask - do we need another ship piloted by Annoying Skywalker?

Twilight, sorry. Got TIE/fo on the brain.

Not really. But aside from that I can't think of many options for large ships, either. I guess the LAAT, but I'm not sure whether that should be large or medium base; I'm not convinced it's that much bigger than a TIE Reaper, for example.

 

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8 minutes ago, Averross said:

Linked Battery certainly comes to mind.

True, but my problems are this:

  • You cannot give upsilon's talents. Lacking Marksmanship, there are limited ways to guarantee those critical results.
  • If you drop a potentially 5-dice shot on something and you need the autoblaster's effect to get a hit through, I respectfully suggest you're doing it wrong
  • This involves an upsilon outflanking something, ever.

Don't get me wrong; it's only 2 points. So there are worse upgrades you could spend many more points on. But I really, really doubt it'll ever achieve much.

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17 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Twilight, sorry. Got TIE/fo on the brain.

Not really. But aside from that I can't think of many options for large ships, either. I guess the LAAT, but I'm not sure whether that should be large or medium base; I'm not convinced it's that much bigger than a TIE Reaper, for example.

 

I think it's just 2 or 3 meters longer than the Auzituck and about the same general shape.

 

 

 

 

 

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21 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

I think that's everything. I'm not sure what Republic ship would credibly even have the cannon upgrade, unless they bring out the Midnight as a large ship.

Eta 2 is a prime candidate. I believe some non Jedi flew it which could give it the talent slot.

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3 hours ago, Octarine-08 said:

Eta 2 is a prime candidate. I believe some non Jedi flew it which could give it the talent slot.

Barriss Offee's pilot ability would work pretty well with Autoblasters...

21 hours ago, Averross said:

Linked Battery certainly comes to mind.

Linked Battery mostly just means that Cannons aren't hopeless on an Upsilon.

The thought of checking it out makes sense, since an Ups might just be Reinforcing or using Coordinate, so stray crits going through defenses might be good..  But with 3 dice Autoblasters, you won't really be *better* than 4 dice primary.  Autoblasters slightly worse than Primary against 3 focused green dice, and significantly worse against 2 focused green dice.

Now, Upsilon Ion Cannon is something I'd probably try out (if I didn't need to spend 5 points on it), but that's a different subject entirely.

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Posted (edited)
On 8/8/2019 at 9:57 AM, Magnus Grendel said:

Twilight, sorry. Got TIE/fo on the brain.

Not really. But aside from that I can't think of many options for large ships, either. I guess the LAAT, but I'm not sure whether that should be large or medium base; I'm not convinced it's that much bigger than a TIE Reaper, for example.

 

My complete shot in the dark guess is that if the LAAT ever shows up it'll have double missile slots before it has a cannon slot.  

6 hours ago, Octarine-08 said:

Eta 2 is a prime candidate. I believe some non Jedi flew it which could give it the talent slot.

I'm with you on this.  There's the potential of it being reeeeeeally nasty with the right cannon too.

Edited by Pa Weasley

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4 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Now, Upsilon Ion Cannon is something I'd probably try out (if I didn't need to spend 5 points on it), but that's a different subject entirely

It's surprisingly good. I can recommend upsilon tractor beam, too - it feels like a wierd choice but it pairs with a TIE/fo swarm surprisingly well (especially lieutenant rivas)

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38 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

It's surprisingly good. I can recommend upsilon tractor beam, too - it feels like a wierd choice but it pairs with a TIE/fo swarm surprisingly well (especially lieutenant rivas)

Better than a 4 die primary shot to the face?? Idk. 

 

Also, HLC at 2 points. Would be very fun for hunting large ships. (Though, surprisingly, at this time, I don't know if large ships actually need to be hunted. Haven't heard of oppressive numbers of Han and Dash in the wild.) Maybe 3 pts? 

 

I wish we still had the Tie D title. That was fun with tractor. =(

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5 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Better than a 4 die primary shot to the face?? Idk. 

Depends on what else is in the Upsilon's list. The -1 defense die from the tractor tokens could very well permit a kill shot from another ship or ships where the 4 die primary wouldn't.

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