Jump to content
geek19

Cannot Get Your Ship Out! August Articles!

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

A Ruthless Neb-B Escort with Toryn around is... yuck.

Also with Vanguard you can finally get a ship with both Fighter Coordination Team and Flight Controllers on it that doesn't mind doing that, which is fairly rare.

Edited by Snipafist

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The new Rebel aces?

Assault: Suprise Attack
Defense: Fighter Ambush
Navigation: Superior Positions

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57)
• Captain Rex (5)
• Auxiliary Shields Team (3)
• Vanguard (4)
• Flight Controllers (6)
= 75 Points

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57)
• Yavaris (5)
= 62 Points

CR90 Corvette B (39)
• General Rieekan (30)
• Liberator (2)
• All fighters, Follow Me! (5)
= 76 Points

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
• Toryn Farr (7)
• Bomber Command Center (8)
• Bright Hope (2)
= 35 Points

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
• Comms Net (2)
= 20 Points

Squadrons:
• Ten Numb (19)
• Gold Squadron (12)
• Norra Wexley (17)
• Keyan Farlander (20)
• Biggs Darklighter (19)
• Jan Ors (19)
• 2 x X-wing Squadron (26)
= 132 Points

Total Points: 400

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Do we have confirmation that Lando's reroll ability is prevented by accuracies?  The ability occurs "while defending," but not necessarily during the spend defense tokens step, because you aren't spending a defense token in the standard way.  So unless I'm missing something, it's dependent on who's the first player.

Edit: and as a result, Sloane could then reroll into an accuracy and spend your other brace?

Edited by The Jabbawookie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, The Jabbawookie said:

Do we have confirmation that Lando's reroll ability is prevented by accuracies?  The ability occurs "while defending," but not necessarily during the spend defense tokens step, because you aren't spending a defense token in the standard way.  So unless I'm missing something, it's dependent on who's the first player.

Edit: and as a result, Sloane could then reroll into an accuracy and spend your other brace?

You're still spending a token to use this new effect, so...... No? Sloane's ability to spend is while attacking, so she's definitely lost all ability to spend her accuracies during my defending stage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, The Jabbawookie said:

Do we have confirmation that Lando's reroll ability is prevented by accuracies?  The ability occurs "while defending," but not necessarily during the spend defense tokens step, because you aren't spending a defense token in the standard way.  So unless I'm missing something, it's dependent on who's the first player.

Edit: and as a result, Sloane could then reroll into an accuracy and spend your other brace?

From the Rules Reference Guide:
Spend Accuracy (G) Icons: The attacker can spend
one or more of its G icons to choose the same
number of the defender’s defense tokens. The chosen
tokens cannot be spent during this attack.

It doesn't matter how the tokens are being spent, they can't be spent during that attack. So it does shut down Lando's reroll ability. The only window during the timing chain that the defender has to spend defense tokens is the Spend Defense Tokens step (unless a card says otherwise). Lando can't suddenly interrupt the attacker after they've rolled their initial attack but before they get to the Modify Dice step (where accuracy icons are spent).

By the time Lando spends his defense tokens to reroll a dice, any accuracy icons produced are at that point around too late for Sloane to spend them again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Snipafist said:

It doesn't matter how the tokens are being spent, they can't be spent during that attack. So it does shut down Lando's reroll ability. The only window during the timing chain that the defender has to spend defense tokens is the Spend Defense Tokens step (unless a card says otherwise). Lando can't suddenly interrupt the attacker after they've rolled their initial attack but before they get to the Modify Dice step (where accuracy icons are spent).

But shouldn’t Lando function in the same way commander Darth Vader does (i.e. spending a token outside the normal window to do so?)  You aren’t specifically spending your defense tokens in the spend defense tokens step, you are spending them “while defending.”  This is different wording than Brunson or Officer Lando, which specify the spend defense tokens step as their window.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, The Jabbawookie said:

But shouldn’t Lando function in the same way commander Darth Vader does (i.e. spending a token outside the normal window to do so?)  You aren’t specifically spending your defense tokens in the spend defense tokens step, you are spending them “while defending.”  This is different wording than Brunson or Officer Lando, which specify the spend defense tokens step as their window.

There's no window for defender decisions until the spend defense tokens step. If they work whenever you want, then you get into some very confusing timing windows compared to attacker decisions in the earlier windows that's similar to pre-FAQ G8 Projectors where the mushy timing window created a lot of confusion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, The Jabbawookie said:

But shouldn’t Lando function in the same way commander Darth Vader does (i.e. spending a token outside the normal window to do so?)  You aren’t specifically spending your defense tokens in the spend defense tokens step, you are spending them “while defending.”  This is different wording than Brunson or Officer Lando, which specify the spend defense tokens step as their window.

Sure, but when during the attack are you assuming you spend it, if not spend Defense tokens?

if it’s “attacker modifies dice”, then, with that assumption, AT BEST, you’d only be able to use the ability in light of a rolled ACC result, if you were first player.

 

as snip just ninjas in, that would be exceptionally “mushy”.

Spend defense tokens in spend defense tokens... 😁

Edited by Drasnighta

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Snipafist said:

There's no window for defender decisions until the spend defense tokens step. If they work whenever you want, then you get into some very confusing timing windows compared to attacker decisions in the earlier windows that's similar to pre-FAQ G8 Projectors where the mushy timing window created a lot of confusion.

The problem I have with this is card effects trump base rules, including the attack sequence.  Which is probably why all defensive dice modifications, special uses of defense tokens and die cancellation effects include an explicit point where they occur, such as during the "spend defense tokens" step (Admo, Brunson, Officer Lando, Expert Shield Tech*, Targeting Scrambler), "before suffering damage from an attack" (Bright Hope, Derlin), or "while suffering damage from an attack" (TFA.)

As far as I can tell, there are two exceptions to this: ECM, and Lando.  ECM requires a defense token that your opponent has targeted with an accuracy, which effectively limits it to the spend defense tokens step.  It has also been specifically FAQ'd to prohibit any otherwise abnormal spending of an accuracied token.  Lando has no such restriction, and an occasional incentive to reroll accuracies.

4 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

Sure, but when during the attack are you assuming you spend it, if not spend Defense tokens?

if it’s “attacker modifies dice”, then, with that assumption, AT BEST, you’d only be able to use the ability in light of a rolled ACC result, if you were first player.

 

as snip just ninjas in, that would be exceptionally “mushy”.

Spend defense tokens in spend defense tokens... 😁

At any point during the attack.  So the end of the "roll attack dice" step would be the earliest point at which using the ability would be reasonable.

And yes, it is irritatingly mushy.  I'm not being a prescriptive PITA, I'm being a descriptive PITA.  And what I see is a poorly worded card effect that overrules base rules and makes a mess.

 

*Which is included in the same expansion, also allows a new effect for a specific defense token, and includes a specific timing window Lando doesn't have.  If Lando is implied to only function during the "spend defense tokens step," the difference in wording seems illogical.

Edited by The Jabbawookie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The Jabbawookie said:

the difference in wording seems illogical.

For better or worse - CAN IT be explained by lack of space on the card?

Because “during the spend defense tokens step” ends up being a surprising amount of real estate.

Edited by Drasnighta

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

For better or worse - CAN IT be explained by lack of space on the card?

Because “during the spend defense tokens step” ends up being a surprising amount of real estate.

It can be...  in an FAQ.  Not, I believe, from the rules and precedents we have at our disposal now, which lead to a messier conclusion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, The Jabbawookie said:

It can be...  in an FAQ.  Not, I believe, from the rules and precedents we have at our disposal now, which lead to a messier conclusion.

Well, its not like you should be using the card at the moment, anyway, right?  So the discussion is purely Academic.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't it like that: a card effect overrules  standard rules.

The Lando card says : "...you can spend 1 of your defense tokens..." That overrules acuracy effect (standard)

If the wording would be: "if you spend a defense token ..." Acuracy would block it.

Edit: Now thinking about it, you also should be able to use Lando right after "Rolling Attack Dice" before Accuracy results are spent in "Modify Dice" step.

Edited by Triangular
Nobody ever thought Lando was easy to understand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Triangular said:

Isn't it like that: a card effect overrules  standard rules.

The Lando card says : "...you can spend 1 of your defense tokens..." That overrules acuracy effect (standard)

If the wording would be: "if you spend a defense token ..." Acuracy would block it.

Edit: Now thinking about it, you also should be able to use Lando right after "Rolling Attack Dice" before Accuracy results are spent in "Modify Dice" step.

No. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting , the argument that landos effect steps out of the standard pathway and is not triggered in the spend defence token step, is possible. for me he’s spending a defence token, which is done in the spend defence token step.

Also if he could step out and ignore accuracies he’s effectively got built in ECM that could be used 4 times per round, that’s a powerful ability on top of the standard Ace brace pack and a reasonable set of upgrades and ability’s....that’s lots of points.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Since @Snipafist and @geek19 have so generously agreed to host my gigantic writeup of the NOVA tournament, I'll do the tiny bit of work required now to post them here.

http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2019/09/more-guest-posts-nova-winning-guest.html

http://cannotgetyourshipout.blogspot.com/2019/09/nova-winner-guest-post-22.html

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...