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CEOWolf

Interesting Choices

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10 hours ago, Whiz Canmaj said:

I do have to agree with you on Captain Marvel, though. Would have loved to have Invisible Woman instead.

I bet they are saving her for a Fantastic Four expansion.

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5 minutes ago, slope123 said:

I bet they are saving her for a Fantastic Four expansion.

Yeah, it really makes sense that groups like F4 and X-Men come in their own big box expansions.

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If you don't think white/male privilege is a thing, or that companies are "pandering" by including women or people of color in their products, maybe stop and consider what the world would look like if you were born something other than white or male.

As a thought exercise, imagine the races/genders of every character you love is flipped. All men are now women, all white characters are now non-white. Do you still feel represented? This is what life has been like for everyone who isn't a white man.

I'm not saying white men are bad, I'm just saying we've been pandered to for SO long and SO much, that anything that moves the scales SLIGHTLY toward equal representation feels like persecution to some of us.

It's not pandering to let other people feel seen the way you have been your entire life.

I'm not going to keep preaching, but I wanted to say something because I feel like these attitudes of racial or sexual superiority have been getting louder in geek culture, and I wouldn't feel right ignoring it.

I'm looking forward to this game, and I hope we can foster a welcoming and supportive community for everyone that is willing to be welcoming and supportive.

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I like the hero line up.  Iron man and Spider Man are 2 favourites from childhood.  I also liked Black Panther as a child but only ever had 1 comic so didn’t know much about him until the movie.  Love the captain marvel movie and I think I’m most excited to play her hero first.  And she hulk, I knew existed but find her to be an excellent fifth, to get to know.  This also has a good mix of male and female heroes.

as for other heroes, they will all get the spotlight for their heroes packs.  This is an exciting time to be a gamer :)

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Super pumped for She-Hulk, the original fourth wall breaker (**** Deadpool).

She's got a great alter ego, she's an Avenger, she a woman, and she hasn't been in a movie, which helps push that this is the whole Marvel comic universe (as opposed to the other four heroes and the villains).

I love Captain Marvel and my wife is ready to play because she's in the cover of the box.

I think the choices are really savvy.

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I'm actually glad that Hulk's not in the core (as a hero, anyway).  One of the big mechanics of the game is tactically switching between hero and civilian form, and his whole schtick is that he can't control that. Sure, it's easy enough to handwave, but I don't think they'd do justice to his character unless the swap was outside the player's direct control. That'd make him a complex character to design; I want them to get a few packs out and see how the system shakes out before they give him a try.

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13 hours ago, Whiz Canmaj said:

Because it's a superhero game based on the interactions between civilian identity and superhero identity. Black Panther is the ruler of a nation. Iron Man is a CEO. She-Hulk is a lawyer. Spider-Man is Marvel's everyman. They present interesting fodder to build alter-ego cards around. Perpetual loners and wanderers like the Hulk, Wolverine, and the Punisher are going to have shallower alter-ego options for them.

I do have to agree with you on Captain Marvel, though. Would have loved to have Invisible Woman instead.

With the exception of She Hulk, who I agree is a more interesting alter ego character than Banner, these are all current MCU characters. Marvel makes more sense than just one member of the F4, who I have little doubt will be released concurrently. 

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21 hours ago, urloony said:

Agreed regarding their "interesting choices." They seem a little woke, but that's par for the course considering the current comic book/movie pandering we see from Marvel.  She-Hulk has more demand and appeal than Cap for a core set?  Give me a break.  If this game was released 5 years ago, we'd see Hulk and Cap in there instead of She-Hulk and Ms. Marvel.  The game however looks FANTASTIC.  While some may not like FFG's cookie cutter approach to game design with their LCG's, I think there is enough change here to make it feel new and different and the deck theming looks great!

Actually, it is extremely common to not include characters that are popular in the base set of the game.

 

For example, in LOTR, there were three totally made up characters (Thalin, Beravor, Eleanor), and yet Bilbo and Frodo were not introduced until the first and second packs. Merry and Pippin came out several years later. Gandalf never had a hero card until well into the game's run. This is normal to not have all major characters.

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8 hours ago, Radix2309 said:

I think they will do Dr Strange and Stephan Strange. 

Er as a superhero Strange has no identity beyond being a mage his accident renders him unfit for operations and he's since abandon the desire to go back even if he did fix his hands (I think he did)

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I feel I must point out I'm not dissing the choices just as I hardly know anything about most of em just surprised figure they pick more movie featured heroes. 

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22 hours ago, urloony said:

If you can't see it, I can't help you.

Ok.  I'll help you a little.  Honestly answer this question.  Why is She-Hulk included instead of Hulk?

Outside of Spidey, the cast is literally lifted from the current Avengers line up.

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3 hours ago, CEOWolf said:

Er as a superhero Strange has no identity beyond being a mage his accident renders him unfit for operations and he's since abandon the desire to go back even if he did fix his hands (I think he did)

T'challa also soesnt have that distinct of an identity. 

I couls see the difference being Stephan studying and meditating, while Dr Strange is him being active with his spellcasting.

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On 8/2/2019 at 9:34 PM, urloony said:

If you can't see it, I can't help you.

Ok.  I'll help you a little.  Honestly answer this question.  Why is She-Hulk included instead of Hulk?

Because a character that doesn't control their ability that litterally transformers them from alter-ego to hero would be a really bad choice for a game with a core mechanic of being able to switch between those two things turn to turn. Specifically in a core set where you want things to not violate too many mechanics off the bat.

I don't think you really thought this question through in a rush to declare pandering.

 

And the Hulk is included as an ally. And true to his comic book form he makes a big impact but is unreliable.

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Posted (edited)
On August 2, 2019 at 9:34 PM, urloony said:

If you can't see it, I can't help you.

Ok.  I'll help you a little.  Honestly answer this question.  Why is She-Hulk included instead of Hulk?

I don't know the answer to that, and neither do you, unless you're part of the design team for this game.  We can talk about possible reasons why certain characters are included or not, but we don't actually know why.

17 hours ago, urloony said:

Sure, but The Hulk is an original Avenger.  First issue mind you!  Instead, we have She-Hulk because she's been here five minutes?

Ah, I discovered the problem.  You're actually a time traveler from 1982, which is the only way it it could be "5 minutes" since She-Hulk joined the Avengers, rather than 37 years.
.
Either that, or you have no idea what you're talking about, and you're trying to act like a comic purist to give you an excuse to complain about a characther's inclusion, despite the fact that a 30 second Google search could prove you wrong.

Edited by Vlad3theImpaler

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I can kinda see why they went with the original five they did. 

She-Hulk is a comics only character so far, so it shows the link to the comics and not just the MCU. Black Panther was also a good choice as the Alter Ego / Ego switch works well with him when they have him having to actually rule Wakanda (that his film was good helps too). Spidey and Iron Man make sense as well. The only one I am pretty "meh" about is Captain Marvel and that is more because I can think of better includes than her (Black Widow would have been fascinating and so would Scarlet Witch) but this one I think may have been dictated by Disney - interestingly she seems down powered in the game versus her movie.

What will be interesting will be how they handle characters like Thor, Vision and of course Doctor Strange. Not only do they not truly have alter egos but they are at a whole different power level than the characters in the Core. Not to mention the villains to come (Thanos, Kaecilius, Loki, Dormammu) will likewise be at a whole different power level. Strange in particular may require new rules and so will Infinity Stones (one of which Strange uses regularly). 

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1 hour ago, Joelist said:

I can kinda see why they went with the original five they did. 

She-Hulk is a comics only character so far, so it shows the link to the comics and not just the MCU. Black Panther was also a good choice as the Alter Ego / Ego switch works well with him when they have him having to actually rule Wakanda (that his film was good helps too). Spidey and Iron Man make sense as well. The only one I am pretty "meh" about is Captain Marvel and that is more because I can think of better includes than her (Black Widow would have been fascinating and so would Scarlet Witch) but this one I think may have been dictated by Disney - interestingly she seems down powered in the game versus her movie.

What will be interesting will be how they handle characters like Thor, Vision and of course Doctor Strange. Not only do they not truly have alter egos but they are at a whole different power level than the characters in the Core. Not to mention the villains to come (Thanos, Kaecilius, Loki, Dormammu) will likewise be at a whole different power level. Strange in particular may require new rules and so will Infinity Stones (one of which Strange uses regularly). 

Power is very abstract in this game. Don't expect any of them to be significantly stronger than normal heroes. The goal isnt to take a "power level" and translate it to the game. Especially since Captain Marvel is on their level.

Also the Eye of Dormammu isnt an Infinity Stone outside the MCU.

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1 hour ago, Radix2309 said:

Power is very abstract in this game. Don't expect any of them to be significantly stronger than normal heroes. The goal isnt to take a "power level" and translate it to the game. Especially since Captain Marvel is on their level.

Also the Eye of Dormammu isnt an Infinity Stone outside the MCU.

Eye of Agamotto, but yes it isn't the Infinity Gem.

Just like the Cosmic Cube (Tesseract)  isn't either.

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10 minutes ago, ScottieATF said:

Eye of Agamotto, but yes it isn't the Infinity Gem.

Just like the Cosmic Cube (Tesseract)  isn't either.

That's the thing though. If they don't make them Infinity Stones in the game they will confuse anyone coming into the game from purely the MCU - and given the very anemic sales of Marvel comics of late that may not be a good idea. 

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1 hour ago, Radix2309 said:

Power is very abstract in this game. Don't expect any of them to be significantly stronger than normal heroes. The goal isnt to take a "power level" and translate it to the game. Especially since Captain Marvel is on their level.

Also the Eye of Dormammu isnt an Infinity Stone outside the MCU.

I understand they may be tempted to "curve grade" certain villains and heroes but that carries its own risks. For example Dormammu is stronger than Thanos (without the Gauntlet) by a good deal in the MCU and it would laugh at heroes like Spider Man and Black Panther and indeed Iron Man and Captain Marvel. The reason Doctor Strange was able to negotiate was he controlled the Time Stone and had Dormammu trapped for eternity in a Time Loop. 

Perhaps they will have an "epic" expansion where you get heroes like Thor and Strange (and the Ancient One) and Villains like Dormammu and Thanos and Kaecilius, They could also include special character cards for other heroes that you swap into their decks to put them on the right power level. 

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On 8/2/2019 at 5:39 PM, urloony said:

Agreed regarding their "interesting choices." They seem a little woke, but that's par for the course considering the current comic book/movie pandering we see from Marvel.  She-Hulk has more demand and appeal than Cap for a core set?  Give me a break.  If this game was released 5 years ago, we'd see Hulk and Cap in there instead of She-Hulk and Ms. Marvel.  The game however looks FANTASTIC.  While some may not like FFG's cookie cutter approach to game design with their LCG's, I think there is enough change here to make it feel new and different and the deck theming looks great!

Oh shut it.

Leave that crap out of it, we get enough of that nearly everywhere else. You want to debate social engineering, go to Facebook or Twitter.

Besides, some of us have always liked She-Hulk. I'm a child of the 70s, and I like her and have for quite a long while. Plenty of room for her in the game, and plenty of time to expand into other (more main-stream) heroes. I'm actually pretty happy to see her make an appearance. I feel she gets overlooked too often. Smart, powerful, beautiful Hulk in control of her power? Cool. Let's watch her kick butt.

I even generally like Captain Marvel while being indifferent to the movie. Spaceship blasting space-hero lady with an awesome costume? Cool. Let's watch her kick butt.

And the two male choices are two of my favorite heroes since childhood, Iron Man and Spider-Man? I mean, Pete has been my favorite all my life.

Sign me up.

I will say, i'd replace Marvel with Spider-Gwen in a hot second, but I get why they didn't go with her.

/but man oh man I look forward to her in an expansion pack

//her and Mister Doctor

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2 hours ago, Joelist said:

That's the thing though. If they don't make them Infinity Stones in the game they will confuse anyone coming into the game from purely the MCU - and given the very anemic sales of Marvel comics of late that may not be a good idea. 

Marvel comics is doing very well.  They just had Black Cat hit 100k and have reached 50% market share for the first time in a while.

The game is clearly using comics as a reference. Stuff like Alpha Flight Station, Vulture's Costume, Iron Man's design, Klaw, etc.

People arent going to be confused because Strange doesnt have an Infinity Stone. All the impressive stuff didnt actually use it.

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On 8/3/2019 at 11:18 PM, Radix2309 said:

T'challa also soesnt have that distinct of an identity. 

I couls see the difference being Stephan studying and meditating, while Dr Strange is him being active with his spellcasting.

True I mean everyone knows T'Challa is Black Panther cuz you can't rule Wakanda without being Black Panther

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I'm curious what we will get beyond what we currently know. It was mentioned it may be a while before we get any X-Men or Fantastic Four since Disney recently got the rights for them.

Hulk, Daredevil, Punisher, Blade, Thor, and Black Widow seem like good choices but I can see them holding off on Thor and making Lady Thor instead to tie in with the movie.

I'd love to get a character pack for Scarlet Spider next year but it's probably unlikely we will ever get a pack for him.

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On 8/3/2019 at 11:57 AM, slope123 said:

I bet they are saving her for a Fantastic Four expansion.

Or. since the movie rights likely weren't squared away by the time this game started development, the X-Men and FF may have been off-limits for this first release.

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