Isn't anyone else gobsmacked at the price of the new large ships?

[mazz0 2,910]

I'm surprised the forum is talking about anything else.

I have at least one of every item they sell for Armada, including the SSD (Super happy with it by the way! 😁) and multiples of many, so I'm surely in their core audience for things like this, but £75 for the Starhawk - are they serious?!  The SSD is huge and iconic, and it still gave me pause for thought before I ordered it (not a long pause, admittedly), but this is neither of those things (yes I know the SSD costs twice as much, but it's also far, far more than twice as big, iconic and pretty).

Right, rant over.  Sorry if this has already been discussed much elsewhere and has perhaps just dropped off the front page, or is hidden under an unrelated title, or if I just went blind.  I was just surprised it wasn't the top topic of discussion.

 

[Ling27 924]

Eh. It looks like a big model. While other models, like the ISD are large, you can mostly get away with it being pretty hollow.

It would be hard for the Star Hawk to not need a ton of internal support, causing more materials to be needed, raising the price.

[Drasnighta 26,831]

Essentially.  I mean, Armada Italy had some more direct comparison shots.  The Starhawk has almost 2x the Material of an ISD.  Easily 4x the Size of the MonCal...  

The Onager?  Well, Maybe that's just a new pricing point.

[Captain Ordo N-11 107]

Maybe they will throw in some squadrons or extra upgrade cards.

[mazz0 2,910]

11 minutes ago, Ling27 said:

Eh. It looks like a big model. While other models, like the ISD are large, you can mostly get away with it being pretty hollow.

It would be hard for the Star Hawk to not need a ton of internal support, causing more materials to be needed, raising the price.

Does that matter?  I'd have thought it was the detail that cost, not the raw material.  Now I imagine it does have more detail than the ISD, but that much?

Regardless, I assume there's a formula that means it does makes sense from FFG's point of view, but what about customers?  Aren't people put off buying it at that price?  For me this wave may be my first pass.

[Drasnighta 26,831]

2 minutes ago, mazz0 said:

Does that matter?  I'd have thought it was the detail that cost, not the raw material.  Now I imagine it does have more detail than the ISD, but that much?

Regardless, I assume there's a formula that means it does makes sense from FFG's point of view, but what about customers?  Aren't people put off buying it at that price?  For me this wave may be my first pass.

Absolutely Not.

I mean.  We're *literally* getting ships at about the rate of 1/year if we're honest.  
(These will be Q4, Clone Wars isn't until 2020)...  Which means my Armada Support cost is about $120 a Year.

That's...  Not bad for a Hobby.

 

Maybe because I'm not intending on getting more than 1 of each, given their size and price.

Edited August 1, 2019 by Drasnighta

[mazz0 2,910]

1 minute ago, Drasnighta said:

Absolutely Not.

I mean.  We're *literally* getting ships at about the rate of 1/year if we're honest.  
(These will be Q4, Clone Wars isn't until 2020)...  Which means my Armada Support cost is about $120 a Year.

That's...  Not bad for a Hobby.

Well that's good, I want people to keep buying into the game, and I'm worried fewer people will at that price (especially people who are also into other games, eg X-Wing).

[Drasnighta 26,831]

23 minutes ago, mazz0 said:

Well that's good, I want people to keep buying into the game, and I'm worried fewer people will at that price (especially people who are also into other games, eg X-Wing).

People who play other games will always be making judgement calls.  Doesn't matter what price you make something.

I mean, in all honesty - one should be making those judgement calls.  

But far too many people suffer sticker shock, rather than working out how much you get out of something at a certain price...  I mean, that's how I was so successful at Games Workshop back in the day.

A Parent would go "$200 for all he needs, I'm not going to pay that!".

ANd I'd say something like:

"Okay, I know it sounds like a lot, but let me point this out.  I just had your kid sitting quietly, painting up this model.  One model.  He's spent about an hour on it so far, and its less than half done.

For that $200, you're getting 150 models.  Let's say he takes 2 hours on each model, which.  That means for $200, you got your kid to shut up for less than a Dollar an Hour.  Less. Than. A. Dollar. An. Hour.   And that's not even counting the hours he'll get actually PLAYING THIS GAME.  Sending him to the Cinema is like, $40 with snacks for barely 2 hours.  I know which is more cost effective."

 

Armada *is* a relatively cheap hobby, especially in comparison to other games.  Even at SSD Price points (since typically, you're buying 1, and its half your list investment)...  Armada doesn't change or refresh quickly enough, or involve enough multibuy purchases unless you are really invested. And if you're really invested, you're really invested

 

I look at the Starhawk.  Its Huge.  Its twice the size of everything bar the SSD.  I expect it to cost more.  I expec it to be pointed more.  I don't expect to need to buy 3 of them.

Do I wish it was cheaper?  Sure.  But that's because I only eat 2 days out of 3 as it is.    But "cheap" and "expensive" are by their nature relative terms.

 

 

[Drasnighta 26,831]

Or heck.  Maybe it is the fact that we're just so desperate for something we just don't care! 

 

Also:

 

CUT THE CHATTER, RED TWO.

Edited August 1, 2019 by Drasnighta

[mazz0 2,910]

3 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

People who play other games will always be making judgement calls.  Doesn't matter what price you make something.

I mean, in all honesty - one should be making those judgement calls.

...

Absolutely it's a judgement call, based on how much enjoyment you'll be getting from this toy compared to others (and other non-toy related things) you could spend that same amount on.  For myself and many people I know Armada has always made that a hard judgement call since for what you get you pay a lot.  Here, the value the product offers you in enjoyment terms isn't increased compared to others in the game, but the price is, substantially.  The judgement call equation is different here, that's for sure.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's a terrible deal or that I definitely won't be buying it.  I'm really just articulating my shock at that price, and how much higher it is than other things that bring a similar amount of enjoyment (such as, but not only, other Armada ships).

[BiggsIRL 6,718]

Priced appropriately for the US tradewar with China.  Sorry rest of the world.

Very, very sorry.

[Grumbleduke 810]

3 minutes ago, BiggsIRL said:

 Sorry rest of the world.

We understand, more than you know. UK.

[kmanweiss 1,502]

I've been thinking about the price point and I wonder if it's not tariff related.  These would have been in development during the tariff talk.  Boardgames and toys got jacked up to a 25% tariff.  $50 large ship upped by 25% is $62.50.  Drop a couple bucks and stick it at $60 for the Onager which isn't really any larger than the ISD.  The Starhawk, due to it's size was likely going to come in at $65 (they have some variability in prices due to size in previous expansions), but they upped it to $80 to cover the tariff.

The administration pulled back the boardgame/toy tariff, but if FFG is unsure of that stability (which who can blame them), or already had a lot of stuff ready (promo art, advertisements, websites, etc) with the tariff price point, they may have decided to just not readjust to the non-tariff price.  Assuming these pieces sell though, I'd expect all the new clone wars content to come in at higher price points.  Squad packs and small ships will likely be seen at $25 from now on. 

[mazz0 2,910]

1 minute ago, kmanweiss said:

I've been thinking about the price point and I wonder if it's not tariff related.  These would have been in development during the tariff talk.  Boardgames and toys got jacked up to a 25% tariff.  $50 large ship upped by 25% is $62.50.  Drop a couple bucks and stick it at $60 for the Onager which isn't really any larger than the ISD.  The Starhawk, due to it's size was likely going to come in at $65 (they have some variability in prices due to size in previous expansions), but they upped it to $80 to cover the tariff.

The administration pulled back the boardgame/toy tariff, but if FFG is unsure of that stability (which who can blame them), or already had a lot of stuff ready (promo art, advertisements, websites, etc) with the tariff price point, they may have decided to just not readjust to the non-tariff price.  Assuming these pieces sell though, I'd expect all the new clone wars content to come in at higher price points.  Squad packs and small ships will likely be seen at $25 from now on. 

In that case I hope they *don't* sell! I'll be wanting quite a few CW ships, so it would be quite bad for me if it's £75 for a Venator! 

[Tokra 2,147]

Well, first it is not this bad when you only have to buy two ships each year.
And second: i just bought the SSD, these are cheap compared to it 😁

[Captain Ordo N-11 107]

8 minutes ago, mazz0 said:

In that case I hope they *don't* sell! I'll be wanting quite a few CW ships, so it would be quite bad for me if it's £75 for a Venator! 

Venator is way smaller. I'd guess Liberty price plus a little to cover possible tariffs.

[Norell 1,198]

Personally I don't think that's too overpriced for such a huge model. Don't forget that the fancy piece of plastic is the most expensive part of every expansion, so the bigger the model, the pricier it gets.

[mazz0 2,910]

16 minutes ago, Tokra said:

Well, first it is not this bad when you only have to buy two ships each year.
And second: i just bought the SSD, these are cheap compared to it 😁

So have I, and I don't think it actually is.

1 minute ago, Norell said:

Personally I don't think that's too overpriced for such a huge model. Don't forget that the fancy piece of plastic is the most expensive part of every expansion, so the bigger the model, the pricier it gets.

The SSD is several times bigger but only twice the price.

As others have said an important thing when deciding whether to buy it is the value you get from it, and I don't think I see this model adding value proportionate to its cost.

I wonder if we'll see card packs as with X-Wing, so there's no pressure to buy it for upgrades.

[kmanweiss 1,502]

25 minutes ago, kmanweiss said:

I've been thinking about the price point and I wonder if it's not tariff related.  These would have been in development during the tariff talk.  Boardgames and toys got jacked up to a 25% tariff.  $50 large ship upped by 25% is $62.50.  Drop a couple bucks and stick it at $60 for the Onager which isn't really any larger than the ISD.  The Starhawk, due to it's size was likely going to come in at $65 (they have some variability in prices due to size in previous expansions), but they upped it to $80 to cover the tariff.

The administration pulled back the boardgame/toy tariff, but if FFG is unsure of that stability (which who can blame them), or already had a lot of stuff ready (promo art, advertisements, websites, etc) with the tariff price point, they may have decided to just not readjust to the non-tariff price.  Assuming these pieces sell though, I'd expect all the new clone wars content to come in at higher price points.  Squad packs and small ships will likely be seen at $25 from now on. 

LOL

I no more than post this, head to a news site, and read an article that Trump is looking at putting a 10% tariff across the board which would include toys/games.  So maybe FFG keeping the price higher was the right call...for them.

[Norell 1,198]

6 minutes ago, mazz0 said:

The SSD is several times bigger but only twice the price.

As others have said an important thing when deciding whether to buy it is the value you get from it, and I don't think I see this model adding value proportionate to its cost.

I wonder if we'll see card packs as with X-Wing, so there's no pressure to buy it for upgrades.

All true. But let's wait for the upgrade cards. The new salvo defense token may be very valuable as well, especially for ships like the MC30.

[mazz0 2,910]

2 minutes ago, Norell said:

All true. But let's wait for the upgrade cards. The new salvo defense token may be very valuable as well, especially for ships like the MC30.

Man, that would be amazing on an MC30!  I think a lot of people would be quite peeved if this pack has such very useful upgrades in it and there's no cheaper way of getting them though!

Speaking of things I want to put on MCxx ships - is there any way of getting Fleet Commands on an MC80?  It feels so wrong that they're coming from a little Pelta and not Home One.

[bleezy 222]

The price increase isn't really due to tariffs. 10% of $50 is only $5, plus FFG doesn't isn't paying their manufacturers anywhere near what they are charging us, so assuming the Onager model is roughly equivalent to an ISD in production cost the tariffs should probably only add 2 or 3 dollars to the cost, not 10.

 

This is just prices going up because prices go up. It's probably made worse because FFG probably sees Armada less as a game that attracts new players nowadays, and almost nothing is too expensive for deeply enfranchised players.

[Grumbleduke 810]

It's worth remembering that X-Wing prices went up by ~30% in the move to X-Wing 2 - which was after the last normal Armada release.

As far as I know, Armada hasn't experienced a price increase in the 4-5 years it has been around. I wonder if what we're seeing is FFG finally catching up on 4-5 years of changes in costs across the board with the miniatures. Maybe if we'd had an expansion in the last 18 months it might have been a more gradual increase.

It might be they're also trying to get some advance funding to cover the large investment into the Clone Wars stuff, or they're trying to recover some of the extra costs of developing the SSD.

Or they're trying to make more money and know we will pay.

[LordCola 680]

The SSD might have been a test run on this. After release the very expensive SSD FFG saw that enough people are willing to pay more for a single expansion, especially if there aren't very many expansions per year for Armada. So the decided they could raise the prices.

[mazz0 2,910]

11 minutes ago, LordCola said:

The SSD might have been a test run on this. After release the very expensive SSD FFG saw that enough people are willing to pay more for a single expansion, especially if there aren't very many expansions per year for Armada. So the decided they could raise the prices.

Yes, but the SSD is the SSD.  What's this thing?