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ovinomanc3r

Changing dice color before gathering dice

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So a spoiled upgrade card looks like this:

"While attacking a squadron, before you gather dice, if defender is not engaged with a friendly squadron, you may replace all the blue anti squadron dice with red dice"

At first glance it seems it seems it allows you to shot red dice at long range while your anti squadron armament is just blue BUT:

"If the attacker is a ship, the defending squadron or hull zone must be inside the attacking hull zone’s firing arc and at attack range of the attacking hull zone"

This is before the Roll (and gather) Attack Dice step.

What's attack range?

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Posted (edited)

From the RRG

Attack range is the range at which a squadron or a ship’s 
hull zone can perform an attack as determined by the 
armament it is using.
• A hull zone’s maximum attack range is close range if it 
has only black dice in its armament, medium range if it 
has at least one blue die, or long range if it has at least 
one red die.

 

So you still have to be at medium range to change those blue dice, no matter it happens before gathering the dice 

Edited by ovinomanc3r

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Posted (edited)

Incorrect.

You declare Target first.

Declare a Target at Long Range.

 

Before you gather Dice, change your Dice from Blue to Red.  You're effecting a temporary armament change, rather than a "Remove, Add" effect.

 

Oh, look.  You're now Gathering Red Dice at Long Range, and its legal. 

Dakka Dakka Dakka.

 

 

 

Edited by Drasnighta

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1 hour ago, Drasnighta said:

Incorrect.

You declare Target first.

Declare a Target at Long Range.

 

Before you gather Dice, change your Dice from Blue to Red.  You're effecting a temporary armament change, rather than a "Remove, Add" effect.

 

Oh, look.  You're now Gathering Red Dice at Long Range, and its legal. 

Dakka Dakka Dakka.

 

 

 

Ok but what about the Declare Target dot?

First you declare Target and that target must be at range of the attacking hull zone.

The range of the attack hull zone is long range only if it has at least one red die on its armament. There are no red dice at this point (declaring target) so the squadron is not at range of the hull zone.

That's what I'm reading and bothers me. 

 

1. Declare Target: The attacker declares the defender and 
the attacking hull zone, if any. If the defender is a ship, 
the attacker declares the defending hull zone. Measure 
line of sight to the defender to ensure the attack is 
possible and to determine if it is obstructed.
If the attacker is a ship, the defending squadron or hull 
zone must be inside the attacking hull zone’s firing arc 
and at attack range of the attacking hull zone. 

◊ If the attacker is a squadron, the defending squadron 
or hull zone must be at distance 1.

 

I am just trying to understand how are we allowing that target given the rules that requires it must be at range when it is not. If the upgrade said while declaring target I would agree completely. But before gathering dice sounds after declaring target to me somehow.

Maybe I should check the FAQ it's being a long time since I deal with the rules

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Ok but what about the Declare Target dot?

First you declare Target and that target must be at range of the attacking hull zone.

The range of the attack hull zone is long range only if it has at least one red die on its armament. There are no red dice at this point (declaring target) so the squadron is not at range of the hull zone.

That's what I'm reading and bothers me. 

 

1. Declare Target: The attacker declares the defender and 
the attacking hull zone, if any. If the defender is a ship, 
the attacker declares the defending hull zone. Measure 
line of sight to the defender to ensure the attack is 
possible and to determine if it is obstructed.
If the attacker is a ship, the defending squadron or hull 
zone must be inside the attacking hull zone’s firing arc 
and at attack range of the attacking hull zone. 

◊ If the attacker is a squadron, the defending squadron 
or hull zone must be at distance 1.

 

I am just trying to understand how are we allowing that target given the rules that requires it must be at range when it is not. If the upgrade said while declaring target I would agree completely. But before gathering dice sounds after declaring target to me somehow.

Maybe I should check the FAQ it's being a long time since I deal with the rules

Let’s break it down colloquially.

Would you have an upgrade that makes things worse ?

i mean, has no effect than to make things worse?

without a range gain, it is a costly downgrade.

 

 

Edited by Drasnighta

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3 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Let’s break it down colloquially.

Would you have an upgrade that makes things worse ?

i mean, has no effect than to make things worse?

without a range gain, it is a costly downgrade.

 

 

Red dice have their own advantage. But whatever. That's not a point even when I agree. I just noticed that as per the rules it was never a thing of you targeting whatever and gathering 0 dice. The defender had to be at range it seems. Which is weird given the attack is cancelled when gathering 0 dice.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

Red dice have their own advantage. But whatever. That's not a point even when I agree. I just noticed that as per the rules it was never a thing of you targeting whatever and gathering 0 dice. The defender had to be at range it seems. Which is weird given the attack is cancelled when gathering 0 dice.

Did you look up how you determine if something is “in range”?

Because I’m not articulating well on no sleep, but here goes again:

I believe, You lay the range ruler down - if it’s within the range ruler, it is “in range” - ie, in short, medium or long range.

You then gather dice based on the range involved. These are now reds.

Because you don’t look at dice colour until that step.

When you are gathering.

Edited by Drasnighta

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I am reading the Declare Target step that requires the defender to be at range of the attacking hull zone  and the Attack Range section what defines what attack range is.

I am also tired and I will submit the question cause I think it "is" as you says but I just cannot see it that way no matter how times I read it.

 

I just declare a target and it must be at range of the attacking hull zone and when I read attack range I noticed that the maximum range of my hull is medium so the defender is breaking that MUST. I am trying to solve that. I not even reach the gathering dice stuff.

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2 minutes ago, ovinomanc3r said:

I am reading the Declare Target step that requires the defender to be at range of the attacking hull zone  and the Attack Range section what defines what attack range is.

I am also tired and I will submit the question cause I think it "is" as you says but I just cannot see it that way no matter how times I read it.

 

I just declare a target and it must be at range of the attacking hull zone and when I read attack range I noticed that the maximum range of my hull is medium so the defender is breaking that MUST. I am trying to solve that. I not even reach the gathering dice stuff.

Feel free.

Basically: How do you know your range is medium?

You haven’t been told to look at your dice yet.

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37 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

Let’s break it down colloquially.

Would you have an upgrade that makes things worse ? 

i mean, has no effect than to make things worse?

without a range gain, it is a costly downgrade.

I'm not sure which of these interpretations is correct but if the Flakking ship has the new LTT laser it can reroll a red dice in each attack, not an exhaust and it works against squadrons.

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55 minutes ago, Mad Cat said:

I'm not sure which of these interpretations is correct but if the Flakking ship has the new LTT laser it can reroll a red dice in each attack, not an exhaust and it works against squadrons.

You'd have to be using a Liberty as they're both Turbolasers.

 

Cymoon's dont have blue to change to Red.

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Posted (edited)

 

11 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

You'd have to be using a Liberty as they're both Turbolasers.

 

Cymoon's dont have blue to change to Red.

Libertys don't either. Their flak dice are only black.

Edited by hufflazon

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Just now, hufflazon said:

 

Libertys don't either. Their flak dice are only black.

I could have sworn they had a Blue/Black Variant?

If not.  Well, hey!  Everyone's Equally Screwed in the Double Turbolaser Case!

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

You'd have to be using a Liberty as they're both Turbolasers.

 

Cymoon's dont have blue to change to Red.

Edit - answered above.

Edited by eliteone

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