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bllaw

Lord of the Rings Card Game 2?

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With co-op vets Nate French and Caleb Grace at the helm, it’s not surprising that there are similarities between Champions and Arkham and LotR Koff*Surge*koff  You can see many ideas from the earlier games refined into Champions  

what impressed me is how successful these designers are at infusing their games with tone. Arkham feels constrained, often desperate; LotR captures a sense of (dare I say) fellowship.  Nate spoke about wanting Champions players to feel “empowered” and everything I see confirms that. Arkham as it’s weaknesses, which make you mistrust your own deck. In Champions weaknesses become Nemesis, but they spring from the Encounter deck — because you are a super hero and of course your deck is your source of power. 

These guys are just terrific designers. 

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On 8/1/2019 at 12:40 PM, bllaw said:

First of all, SUPER HYPED that FFG is finally giving us a Marvel game. Been a long time coming in my opinion...however, is it just me or does this game seem absurdly similar to LOTR LCG? I mean, there are a quite a few differences but it seems really similar. I love playing LOTR LCG but cant FFG get a little bit more creative seeing as LOTR LCG is now ending and it looks like they're just trying to replace it with this other game? IDK that's just my opinion but still looks super amazing! Also can't wait to see what other Marvel games they'll inevitably release

Exactly what I think most of noticed.  However, I actually kind of like the fact that it's got some similar game mechanics.  The huge bonus being that while the general game mechanics are the same with every encounter you play with LOTR LCG, each encounter plays so differently it always feels like a new and different game every time.  I think it speaks highly of the strengths that that game engine has and it looks like the sky's the limit on the scenarios designs that will be coming for Champions. 

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17 hours ago, AstroChicken said:

Is there actual proper deck building in this? In the demo I watched, the guy explained that you pick your hero deck and then a "focus deck" (forgot the correct term) and splash in a few basic cards to round of your deck. And it sounded like the first two consisted of preselected cards. Is that really it or do you actually get to customize all the decks? I hope this was just super simplified for demo purposes and that the actual game is much deeper.

Only the 15 or so cards specific to the hero are preselected.  The neutral and aspect cards are selected when building the deck.

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On 8/1/2019 at 1:25 PM, SlimDiggity said:

Would've loved if this was a competitive game. I have fond memories of Marvel Overpower, even though it wasn't great.

funny cuz i was working on an update for overpower (aka a 2nd ed), overpower have alot of 90's tcg gimmicks and could really use a lcg update.  

some of the biggest issues is board state is so cluttered, heros should just have health.  teamwork cards where bad OR super OP.  i was thinking of a pod system like star wars with 4 heroes (no dumb backline) would of been a mix of OP star wars and transformers.  also was looking at making it more brawl-ly and faster games 15 mins.  i still might keep working on it and put it on TTS.

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13 hours ago, urloony said:

Exactly what I think most of noticed.  However, I actually kind of like the fact that it's got some similar game mechanics.  The huge bonus being that while the general game mechanics are the same with every encounter you play with LOTR LCG, each encounter plays so differently it always feels like a new and different game every time.  I think it speaks highly of the strengths that that game engine has and it looks like the sky's the limit on the scenarios designs that will be coming for Champions. 

I agree.  The similarities of the two will make it easier for LOTR fans to transition over to Marvel.  I just wish Star Wars: The Card Game had been designed around the same mechanics.  I'm a huge Star Wars geek, but I wasn't able to really get involved in the game due to the gameplay mechanics.  Maybe I've been spoiled by LOTR LCG, but it just wasn't there for me (please don't kill me).

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Paladin Ignatius said:

I agree.  The similarities of the two will make it easier for LOTR fans to transition over to Marvel.  I just wish Star Wars: The Card Game had been designed around the same mechanics.  I'm a huge Star Wars geek, but I wasn't able to really get involved in the game due to the gameplay mechanics.  Maybe I've been spoiled by LOTR LCG, but it just wasn't there for me (please don't kill me).

You’re not the only one. The Star Wars coop game they demo’d at the GenCon where they announced the license looked very intriguing. I have to say, I was in the camp where I would have preferred a competitive game (and am with the Marvel license as well).  But, when they switched to the competitive Star Wars LCG, it just missed the mark big time. The mechanics and theme just didn’t do Star Wars justice, and as a result the game never developed a solid following and died.

With these cooperative games, it’s just more about fun than it is about balance. Makes their burden of design far more simple. I still hold out hope for a SW version one day. But, I’ll also hold out hope for a competitive Marvel game too. Give me both and I’ll buy it.

Edited by gokubb

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41 minutes ago, gokubb said:

You’re not the only one. The Star Wars coop game they demo’d at the GenCon where they announced the license looked very intriguing. I have to say, I was in the camp where I would have preferred a competitive game (and am with the Marvel license as well).  But, when they switched to the competitive Star Wars LCG, it just missed the mark big time. The mechanics and theme just didn’t do Star Wars justice, and as a result the game never developed a solid following and died.

With these cooperative games, it’s just more about fun than it is about balance. Makes their burden of design far more simple. I still hold out hope for a SW version one day. But, I’ll also hold out hope for a competitive Marvel game too. Give me both and I’ll buy it.

Have you tried the new VS System 2PCG? That might be what you are looking for.

After looking at some gameplay videos, I'm more excited for Champions than ever. I prefer co-op games since there is almost no local scene for lcg here in Mexico City (I play aGoT with some friends and that's it. I wanted toto get into L5R, but no one picked it up here...).

But what I love the most about Champions is that it actually feels like a Marvel game, where our heroes need to balance their regular life while being super when time of need require it. That is absolutely amazing to me, as usualy, with superhero games, it's all about the fighting.

Here, your gameplay and deck feels different whether you are Tony Stark or Iron Man. They captured the essence of each hero perfectly, and I'm in love.

I also find the new release schedule perfect. I was about time that they created independent pack chapters. One can pick Captain America and join some other group without having to own a Core, while others might decide to skip certain hero/villain without missing much. This will make the game much more new players friendly, while LotR and Arkham failed (packs require Deluxe expansions to play).

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3 hours ago, xchan said:

Have you tried the new VS System 2PCG? That might be what you are looking for.

Yes. I was a long time first edition Vs system player. The 2PCG relaunch so missed the mark of maintaining the playability of the original. I don’t know a single first edition veteran that could stand the 2PCG. Some like it, great for them. I think it’s dumbed down trash. The Marvel property deserves something better for a competitive card game.

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21 hours ago, Vlad3theImpaler said:

The neutral and aspect cards are selected when building the deck.

To add to this, with the hero packs released, there are bound to be additional aspect cards and neutral cards, as well as in the release of the campaign expansions.

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On 8/2/2019 at 4:04 PM, Paladin Ignatius said:
On 8/1/2019 at 6:40 PM, bllaw said:

I love playing LOTR LCG but cant FFG get a little bit more creative seeing as LOTR LCG is now ending and it looks like they're just trying to replace it with this other game? IDK that's just my opinion but still looks super amazing! Also can't wait to see what other Marvel games they'll inevitably release

Geez, I read this and thought:

On 8/2/2019 at 1:00 AM, xchan said:

Wait, what? Did I miss some announcement?

But then:

On 8/2/2019 at 5:37 AM, Vlad3theImpaler said:

No, just speculation.

So that was a relief.  Don't scare me like that, I've just started collecting LOTR for crying out loud!

First of all, welcome to LOTR LCG, one of the finest card games in existence

Secondly, as we just started the Vengeance of Mordor Cycle, I'm quite optimistic the LOTR LCG is still going strong

The Ered Mithrin Cycle was awesome and from what I've seen of A Shadow in the East, it is still getting better

However, I hope the fact that Caleb Grace is one of the designers of Marvel Champions doesn't mean anything bad for LOTR...

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3 hours ago, cheapmate said:

First of all, welcome to LOTR LCG, one of the finest card games in existence

Secondly, as we just started the Vengeance of Mordor Cycle, I'm quite optimistic the LOTR LCG is still going strong

The Ered Mithrin Cycle was awesome and from what I've seen of A Shadow in the East, it is still getting better

However, I hope the fact that Caleb Grace is one of the designers of Marvel Champions doesn't mean anything bad for LOTR...

Yes, I've seen the announcements on the homepage, and I am super stoked about it!  My little brother and I are working our way through the series and it is one of our favorite games to play together.  We cannot wait to get to the Vengeance of Mordor Cycle.

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On ‎8‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 11:46 AM, gokubb said:

You’re not the only one. The Star Wars coop game they demo’d at the GenCon where they announced the license looked very intriguing. I have to say, I was in the camp where I would have preferred a competitive game (and am with the Marvel license as well).  But, when they switched to the competitive Star Wars LCG, it just missed the mark big time. The mechanics and theme just didn’t do Star Wars justice, and as a result the game never developed a solid following and died.

With these cooperative games, it’s just more about fun than it is about balance. Makes their burden of design far more simple. I still hold out hope for a SW version one day. But, I’ll also hold out hope for a competitive Marvel game too. Give me both and I’ll buy it.

In all fairness to the Star Wars LCG the thing that killed it wasn't the theme or mechanics.  The issue there was power level honestly.  The Hoth cycle was weak.  And then Edge of Darkness was overpowered.  Balance issues killed the game.  That was a shame too because the game eventually came into it's own....years later.

As far this game goes I am stoked!  I loved LOTR LCG, but I like a superhero theme a little better so this is completely up my alley.

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Posted (edited)
On 8/2/2019 at 4:04 PM, Paladin Ignatius said:

Geez, I read this and thought:

But then:

So that was a relief.  Don't scare me like that, I've just started collecting LOTR for crying out loud!

Actually, since both LotR and AH LCG’s can be played in solo mode, these LCG’s will NEVER die in your collection as you will always be able to play them in a non competitive manner.

The above is the HUGE advantage of these kind of coop LCG’s.

THAT is also the reason why I no longer buy competitive CCG’s or LCG’s as they are driven by competitive play and so their activity quickly ends after publishing the final print run.

The only exception for me was the Star Wars LCG that has a unique and superb SOLO variant of 22 pages on Board Game Geek. I even like playing it solo more than against a friend.

The SW LCG is a SUPERB game and I still hate these haters at launch that prevented me from buying it. Only YEARS later I stumbled over it and since then I will never believe anything posted before I myself can play it.

But luckily thanks to its great solo mode, the SW LCG was saved ! 

—-

So I am very happy FFG went for the solo/coop variant again with the Marvel Campions LCG . A life long fun awaits with these solo card games. 

And quite frankly: you can play endlessly. I played hundreds of games in LotR with just opening the first 2 complete cycles in ... 8 years... I have all Saga expansions and up to the Dream cycle... that are waiting ...

It would also be VERY silly to sell these solo games for some stupid cash. 

I hope Marvel Champions will be good, but in no way I am selling these other solo LCG.’s

Simply too good.

Edited by MMOfan

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On 8/2/2019 at 6:23 PM, GooeyChewie said:

From what we know so far, this game reminds me a lot of Sentinels of the Multiverse. 

Jumping on the necro for this, it's not.  Not even close.  I mean sure, there's superheroes in both, and a central villain, and they all have health, and...

Yeah, that's pretty much it.  Oh, they both use cards too, I guess.  MC has as much in common with Sentinels as they both do with Munchkin.

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6 hours ago, Buhallin said:

Jumping on the necro for this, it's not.  Not even close.  I mean sure, there's superheroes in both, and a central villain, and they all have health, and...

Yeah, that's pretty much it.  Oh, they both use cards too, I guess.  MC has as much in common with Sentinels as they both do with Munchkin.

I think it’s closer to Sentinels if the Multiverse than it is to Legendary (which is the other comparison I’ve seen, and looks really wrong).

There are definitely significant differences between Sentinels (which I’m a huge fan of) and this though - mainly the alter ego system which is something I’ve not seen attempted in any super hero games before, but also the way schemes work. 

Theres definitely room in my collection for both of these, but I’d certainly recommend Sentinels to anyone interested in Super hero card games (there’s also an excellent digital version available).

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