Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
BiggsIRL

Steel Command - A Most August Moment

Recommended Posts

Just now, The Jabbawookie said:

Does Thrawn count as a reveal though?  Or is this ruling merely establishing a precedent for “gaining?”

Thrawn is "triggering" the "can spend the dial for a token". And because the timing for this is the same as the bonus token for the SSD, Thrawn should "trigger" this one as well and give the ship the dial and token.

But i could be wrong on this part. Maybe @Drasnighta has already the right answer 😉

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Tokra said:

Thrawn is "triggering" the "can spend the dial for a token". And because the timing for this is the same as the bonus token for the SSD, Thrawn should "trigger" this one as well and give the ship the dial and token.

But i could be wrong on this part. Maybe @Drasnighta has already the right answer 😉

 

Looks like you’re absolutely right, according to FAQ 4.1.1, which says a command dial can only be spent for a token during the reveal command dial step.  Therefore, Thrawn’s ability must specifically enable ships to reveal his extra command dial.

Thanks, this changes things! *chuckles evilly*

Edited by The Jabbawookie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the FAQ exists because without it Thrawn could not be used for a token.  It does not change that Thrawn does not make the ship reveal that command dial, it gains it.  Thrawn does not give the SSD a token.

Re: The timing

1. the Ship Reveals a command dial

2. It then Gains that command dial

3. At this point, before anything else, it may discard that dial to gain a matching command token.

SSD triggers at 1.  Thrawn is at 2.  Tokens are at 3.

Edited by Do I need a Username

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Do I need a Username said:

the FAQ exists because without it Thrawn could not be used for a token.  It does not change that Thrawn does not make the ship reveal that command dial, it gains it.  Thrawn does not give the SSD a token.

Then there is an internal contradiction between rules.  If a dial can only be converted to a token during the reveal command dial step, and Thrawn’s dials can be turned into tokens, then this must occur during the reveal command dial step.

Unless you’re saying there’s a reveal command dial step for the dial that somehow doesn’t qualify the huge ship?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, BiggsIRL said:

Not to scoop Shmitty's glory here, but there's some new ships out too.

http://www.steelstrategy.com/2019/08/commanders-guide-super-star-destroyer.html

 

(stealth edit:  Tagge is still Hot Garbage, and not in a good, Dumpster Fire sort of way)

Only a little fault i noticed 😉.
The SSD has only 3 red for the side Arcs, not 4.

Basically the Assault got one extra blue die on the 4 sides. And one extra red in the front.

 

And about the Commanders. I am even testing out Sloane, and it is insane how good the SSD is with her.
These others, that are mentioned, are better (beside, maybe, Palatine. I just am not sure about him). But i found Sloane at least an interessting alternative.

And nothing against Tagge on the SSD 😊. If you use Needa and Iden, he can be a real pain. Being able to negate up to 11 dice can really save your SSD. Add Brunson as 3rd officer, and suddenly you can negate 17 dice.
 

Edited by Tokra

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Do I need a Username said:

I'm saying revealing a command dial and gaining it are different, even if it happens in one step.  Revealing != gaining.

I agree, but because of the errata’s wording of Thrawn and the reveal command dial step, there logically must be an implicit reveal command dial step to Thrawn’s ability, even though the ship in question is gaining it.

Gain the dial.

Reveal the dial at the same time or immediately after, I don’t know which, because according to the rules this is the only way to spend it for a command token, and Thrawn can do that.

Get the bonus token at this time from the huge ship rules.

Edited by The Jabbawookie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Do I need a Username said:

I'm saying revealing a command dial and gaining it are different, even if it happens in one step.  Revealing != gaining.

And still, Thrawn triggers the reveal with his gaining. This was said in the FAQ. This means, that the dial, Thrawn is giving to the ship, count as reveal.
There was just no other part (other than spend the dial for a token) that was important for Thrawn. The SSD is the second card that count for it. And, at least from my understanding, the same rule from the FAQ should count as well for the SSD. And this means, that the Thrawn dial count as reveal.

But this is my interpretation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, The Jabbawookie said:

I agree, but because of the errata’s wording of Thrawn and the reveal command dial step, there logically must be an implicit reveal command dial step to Thrawn’s ability, even though the ship in question is gaining it.

Gain the dial.

Reveal the dial, because according to the rules this is the only way to spend it for a command token, and Thrawn can do that.

Get the bonus token at this time from the huge ship rules.

the FAQ exists to explain that Thrawn is different.  He does not trigger on reveal effects, only command dials from the stack do that, see FAQ page 6.

Q: Do abilities or card effects that resolve when a ship reveals its command dial resolve when a command dial placed on an upgrade card equipped to that ship is revealed?
A: No. Effects that resolve when a ship reveals its command dial only resolve when a ship reveals a command dial from the stack assigned to its ship card as part of its activation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Do I need a Username said:

the FAQ exists to explain that Thrawn is different.  He does not trigger on reveal effects, only command dials from the stack do that, see FAQ page 6.

Q: Do abilities or card effects that resolve when a ship reveals its command dial resolve when a command dial placed on an upgrade card equipped to that ship is revealed?
A: No. Effects that resolve when a ship reveals its command dial only resolve when a ship reveals a command dial from the stack assigned to its ship card as part of its activation.

And that clears it up very specifically.

I revert to my original stance.

That said, I find it odd that they use the word "only," then immediately defy that.  Base mechanics versus card effect, I suppose.

Edited by The Jabbawookie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, BiggsIRL said:

(stealth edit:  Tagge is still Hot Garbage, and not in a good, Dumpster Fire sort of way)

As if I'm gonna let that stop me! I've been trying him in SSD lists and I'd estimate I get at least one token back in almost a third of my games! If that isn't good value for points I don't know what is.

Also, I guess I don't know what good value for points is. So there's that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Tokra said:

Only a little fault i noticed 😉.
The SSD has only 3 red for the side Arcs, not 4.

Basically the Assault got one extra blue die on the 4 sides. And one extra red in the front.
 

Whoops.  Fixed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Drasnighta said:

Here’s how it is.

 

Thrawn Dial is not revealed.  That is the rule.

There is a SPECIFIC exception to let you tokenize it.

This is not a general precedent exception letting you treat it as revealed - quite the opposite.

 

That is what the FAQ says

What he said.

At least that is how I understand it, otherwise things get silly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, BiggsIRL said:

What he said.

At least that is how I understand it, otherwise things get silly.

Thinks were already silly with the FAQ entry for Thrawn 😁.

Without this entry, there would be no discussion at all. because Thrawn reveals and not the ship, the ship get the dial, and should not be able to convert it to a token.
But this FAQ entry totally messed it up. And this is why i was not sure about Thrawn and SSD. Normally, by the text of the cards, i would say "no". The SSD does not get the token. But because of the FAQ part for Thrawn, i was not really sure (and i am still not).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Tokra said:

 

Without this entry, there would be no discussion at all. because Thrawn reveals and not the ship, 

To follow this up:

There totally would.

 

Because Thrawn says You and You means "The ship with his upgrade attached."

 

Under that scenario, It create a two tier effect.  The ship that Thrawn is on, ie, the Flagship would count as Revealing the Thrawn dial, but every other ship in your fleet wouldnt.

Which is a whole other set of parallel questions being asked.

So, the FAQ was written to set a blanket arrangement for all ships equally.  And that blanket is "No."

As for why you can tokenise it?  I don't know.  I always figured it was going ot be a NO to that too, but I assume that it was written that way for balance of some sort.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly I feel like you shouldn't be able to tokenize it based on RAW... but that is why FAQs exist.

My guess as to what happened is RAW was written before anything even remotely like Thrawn was conceived and while the intent of the rule was that when you received a dial you could tokenize it, it was written as "when you reveal a dial" because there was no actual way to get a dial without revealing it (true, but with a bit of conjecture).  And someone decided it was easier to FAQ that specific bit rather than errata part of the rules.

Which is why we need a living rulebook already!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...