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[R3dReVenge 441]

10 hours ago, syrath said:

You can't compare Legion with Warhammer. The latter is a game that first saw release on the 80s and at that time I never saw weekly releases.For a year one game I don't think Legion is doing too badly. Warhammer is a money sink IMO. If I was buying new units every week or every second week, I know I couldn't keep up with it. Also Warhammer has way more power creep than Legion. Yes you can play with that 5 year old army you got but competitive , you won't be, since you have to have the later units to stay relevant. Having the units you got out of the core box still be relevant 1 year down the line is a good thing , not a bad thing, but it does mean that people don't have to buy the latest releases.

Give the game  another 20 years and then compare against how Warhammer is now, even then Legion would still be 10 years younger. If legion tried to keep up with the same schedule as Warhammer there would be a lot of stock left on the shelves, which is not good for the game . game

Xwing outsold warhammer in the FLGS and was listed the no1 wargame for a number of years FFG  know what they are doing at least when it comes to scheduling releases (note that this no.1 spot is due to one thing only and that is Warhammer shops themselves are not considered FLGS and do not release their sales figures, I'm sure if they did WH would be no1 ,2 at least with WH40K and Age of Sigmar)

To compare, how many FFG shops do you see in the high street? In my local area Warhammer shops outnumber the amount of FLGS and are in more prime and accessible locations. IMO Warhammer is a game that forces you to buy the latest and greatest units because to stay competitive you have to , Legion doesn't do this, it happened a bit with Xwing as they didn't expect the success they got and hadn't planned for the growth they got and as a result had to rework the game to rebalance everything. The same may happen with Legion as again it has expanded organically beyond its original boundaries, example operatives were not planned when they I'd the core, but we're added early.

Legion and Warhamer will be natural competitors for as long as legion can keep up with GW. I get the GW has been along time, so they've had a while to figure out their release schedule. But, it shouldn't be difficult for FFG to make a big release during the holidays? It just seems like bad management. 

Also, you don't need to buy every unit that comes out. I know collectors do, but the typical player do not and cannot afford every unit. It's different for 40K because there are so many factions and units, it's impossible.

I've been playing warhammer for a decade and sometimes there is power creep, sometimes there is not. It really depends on the unit and faction. I've played my Orks army for years and it's been viable through 4th-6th edition with minor changes. It's a stretch to say that the game forces you to buy the latest units to stay competitive. 

I don't know if this fact is true, but even if it is, it's irrelevant due to online orders and the fact that GW has it's own stores.  I do remember reading an article a couple months ago which had 40,000 has the #1 wargame out there in sales. Legion was #5 on the list. I don't remember if X-wing was on the list. 

 

Imagine this:

September: Terrain

October: Core Set

November: None

December: AAT and Republic Tank + B2s and Phase 2s.

January: None

February: Cody + Duku + Terrain

 

Push selling stuff around the holidays. Around the time the new movie comes out. Seems like a good plan.

Edited August 1, 2019 by R3dReVenge

[R3dReVenge 441]

11 minutes ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

Wait.. FFG is not a successful company?  

When did I say that?

[That Blasted Samophlange 6,923]

9 minutes ago, R3dReVenge said:

When did I say that?

You said look at GW for how a ‘successful, company does things, and then said Legion should be compared to 40K, and itself is not a big game..  seems to read that you don't think FFG is successful.

[R3dReVenge 441]

9 minutes ago, That Blasted Samophlange said:

You said look at GW for how a ‘successful, company does things, and then said Legion should be compared to 40K, and itself is not a big game..  seems to read that you don't think FFG is successful.

GW has a successful business model and FFG should mimic this model that's the point I'm trying to make. 

[TauntaunScout 4,276]

1 hour ago, R3dReVenge said:

Look at GW releases and you'll see how a successful company does a release. 

Legion needs to be compared to 40K, 

GW’s release model is not a realistic comparison. And they aren’t the only successful company. This is a tiny pond. FFG is a relatively big fish. 

Part of GW’s model is to show old customers the door. Because new players spend more. You really want FFG to mimic that?

 

Edited August 1, 2019 by TauntaunScout

[TheHoosh 372]

12 minutes ago, TauntaunScout said:

GW’s release model is not a realistic comparison. And they aren’t the only successful company. This is a tiny pond. FFG is a relatively big fish. 

Part of GW’s model is to show old customers the door. Because new players spend more. You really want FFG to mimic that?

 

No I really don't and couldn't agree more, waiting can be hard but we are consistently getting new product just about every month

[azeronbloodmoone 189]

1 hour ago, R3dReVenge said:

Multiple units a month is just factually incorrect. October? November? December? (terrain pieces don't count). Look at GW releases and you'll see how a successful company does a release. 

Legion needs to be compared to 40K, not Armada. Armada has a very limited community with a small ceiling. Legion can make it big, if FFG chooses to make it big.

you know that they came out and said that what they announced wasn't the only units they are releasing, they have some to be release after clone wars and before the other new units (the b2/phase 2 troopers etc)

[syrath 1,316]

1 hour ago, R3dReVenge said:

Legion and Warhamer will be natural competitors for as long as legion can keep up with GW. I get the GW has been along time, so they've had a while to figure out their release schedule. But, it shouldn't be difficult for FFG to make a big release during the holidays? It just seems like bad management. 

Also, you don't need to buy every unit that comes out. I know collectors do, but the typical player do not and cannot afford every unit. It's different for 40K because there are so many factions and units, it's impossible.

I've been playing warhammer for a decade and sometimes there is power creep, sometimes there is not. It really depends on the unit and faction. I've played my Orks army for years and it's been viable through 4th-6th edition with minor changes. It's a stretch to say that the game forces you to buy the latest units to stay competitive. 

I don't know if this fact is true, but even if it is, it's irrelevant due to online orders and the fact that GW has it's own stores.  I do remember reading an article a couple months ago which had 40,000 has the #1 wargame out there in sales. Legion was #5 on the list. I don't remember if X-wing was on the list. 

 

Imagine this:

September: Terrain

October: Core Set

November: None

December: AAT and Republic Tank + B2s and Phase 2s.

January: None

February: Cody + Duku + Terrain

 

Push selling stuff around the holidays. Around the time the new movie comes out. Seems like a good plan.

On top of the fact it isn't all the releases that have been announced (the leak stole some thunder from the Operatives). X -wing has been the consistent no1 on sales for 3 or 4 years for wargames albeit this is based on sales from FLGS only.  it's been this way since launch pretty much. This is just one website there were similar results for sales in the UK and Europe (Europe being stronger for FFG vs Games Workshop than the Uk)

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/03/industry-the-top-5-miniatures-games-2017.html

Edited August 1, 2019 by syrath

[jcmonson 302]

8 minutes ago, azeronbloodmoone said:

you know that they came out and said that what they announced wasn't the only units they are releasing, they have some to be release after clone wars and before the other new units (the b2/phase 2 troopers etc)

Do you have a source for that?  It wasn't in the livestream or Q&A.

[Yodhrin 353]

Did we get confirmation what material the Phase 2 Troopers would be made out of - bagged & bendy or rigid on sprue?

[azeronbloodmoone 189]

2 minutes ago, jcmonson said:

Do you have a source for that?  It wasn't in the livestream or Q&A.

about the 19 min mark

[azeronbloodmoone 189]

1 minute ago, Yodhrin said:

Did we get confirmation what material the Phase 2 Troopers would be made out of - bagged & bendy or rigid on sprue?

everything is spur from now on to allow more custom models

[jcmonson 302]

3 minutes ago, azeronbloodmoone said:

about the 19 min mark

Thanks, They also say that TCW core should be out early September.

Edited August 1, 2019 by jcmonson

[azeronbloodmoone 189]

5 minutes ago, jcmonson said:

Thanks, They also say that TCW core should be out early September.

the new RRG has a effective date of 9/12/19 so around there is when the CW is avalible and also the ones who bought it early will get to play it in tournments

[jcmonson 302]

5 minutes ago, azeronbloodmoone said:

the new RRG has a effective date of 9/12/19 so around there is when the CW is avalible and also the ones who bought it early will get to play it in tournments

I hadn't thought about that, I was just happy to hear that I wont have to wait until the end of September to get my Droids on the table.

[Galahax 51]

In terms of the Clone Wars release schedule, i hear a lot of  existing people with comments that are focusing on themselves. "Gives me time to catch up on painting", "gives my wallet a break" and so on.

So what about the new player? What about the people that are specifically joining Legion and growing our game BECAUSE of Clone Wars? Think about this...That person has been excited now for months waiting to get into the game, experienced table top guy or not. You were told in a past interview that your faction would have an aggressive schedule to catch up to the existing two. You pick up a Core set now, or a month from now (since beginning of September seems to be the new word). Then you come to realize that you wont be seeing ANY new things for your new hobby for FOUR to FIVE MONTHS. That person isn't gonna be pissed? That person isn't gonna feel deflated cause they have nothing to look forward to for almost half a year? Hopefully they weren't thinking about tournament or competitive play, ( I mean its possible but it sure as **** would be a all uphill battle) .

Not for nothing but if I were starting a new game and I was told I would only have 3 units to play with for 4 or 5 months, 1) I'd be pissed, 2) I'd wait to buy anything until I actually had options.

[kingbobb 159]

11 minutes ago, Galahax said:

In terms of the Clone Wars release schedule, i hear a lot of  existing people with comments that are focusing on themselves. "Gives me time to catch up on painting", "gives my wallet a break" and so on.

So what about the new player? What about the people that are specifically joining Legion and growing our game BECAUSE of Clone Wars? Think about this...That person has been excited now for months waiting to get into the game, experienced table top guy or not. You were told in a past interview that your faction would have an aggressive schedule to catch up to the existing two. You pick up a Core set now, or a month from now (since beginning of September seems to be the new word). Then you come to realize that you wont be seeing ANY new things for your new hobby for FOUR to FIVE MONTHS. That person isn't gonna be pissed? That person isn't gonna feel deflated cause they have nothing to look forward to for almost half a year? Hopefully they weren't thinking about tournament or competitive play, ( I mean its possible but it sure as **** would be a all uphill battle) .

Not for nothing but if I were starting a new game and I was told I would only have 3 units to play with for 4 or 5 months, 1) I'd be pissed, 2) I'd wait to buy anything until I actually had options.

Lack of faction access is part (imo) of what killed Runewars (Legion itself is also partly to blame, but i digress)

I'm in that group that liked the idea of tabletop Star Wars, but found the initial core an limit of 2 factions as a barrier to entry.  I didn't want to have to spend money on factions I know ultimately that I don't really want to collect just to be able to play.  The Clone Wars box has exactly what my son and I both want...droids and clones.  Neither of us is settling.  

Having a decent selection of things to add to the core figures is also kind of a necessity.  Take too long to get them to the LGS, and it becomes another barrier to the game for Republic/Separatist players. 

[That Blasted Samophlange 6,923]

2 minutes ago, Galahax said:

In terms of the Clone Wars release schedule, i hear a lot of  existing people with comments that are focusing on themselves. "Gives me time to catch up on painting", "gives my wallet a break" and so on.

So what about the new player? What about the people that are specifically joining Legion and growing our game BECAUSE of Clone Wars? Think about this...That person has been excited now for months waiting to get into the game, experienced table top guy or not. You were told in a past interview that your faction would have an aggressive schedule to catch up to the existing two. You pick up a Core set now, or a month from now (since beginning of September seems to be the new word). Then you come to realize that you wont be seeing ANY new things for your new hobby for FOUR to FIVE MONTHS. That person isn't gonna be pissed? That person isn't gonna feel deflated cause they have nothing to look forward to for almost half a year? Hopefully they weren't thinking about tournament or competitive play, ( I mean its possible but it sure as **** would be a all uphill battle) .

Not for nothing but if I were starting a new game and I was told I would only have 3 units to play with for 4 or 5 months, 1) I'd be pissed, 2) I'd wait to buy anything until I actually had options.

Compared to the wait for the final season of clone wars, it is a drop in the bucket. 😜

I get it isn't ideal, but you know what?   I'm playing legion with my son with my empire units and the core set rebels and he’s having a blast.   So maybe the lack of unit variety shouldn't mandate your happiness? 

Here’s the thing I'm going to pick up a couple of core sets so I can put out  battledroids, and General Grievious!   I'm excited and I don't care about waiting for units - I'm dedicated to running this bare bones army and saying Roger Roger every time I issue an order token.    But I also haven't picked up every Empire expansion yet.   But I still go to tourneys, I still play and have fun.   Having more toys doesn't increase enjoyment.   I played with Single core set and box of stormtroopers for 8 months before I got something else.   But I still played.   

[Omegaclone 111]

Wow! Blown away. Can not wait for all these miniatures and the future of this game.

[JediPartisan 810]

6 hours ago, Galahax said:

In terms of the Clone Wars release schedule, i hear a lot of  existing people with comments that are focusing on themselves. "Gives me time to catch up on painting", "gives my wallet a break" and so on.

So what about the new player? What about the people that are specifically joining Legion and growing our game BECAUSE of Clone Wars? Think about this...That person has been excited now for months waiting to get into the game, experienced table top guy or not. You were told in a past interview that your faction would have an aggressive schedule to catch up to the existing two. You pick up a Core set now, or a month from now (since beginning of September seems to be the new word). Then you come to realize that you wont be seeing ANY new things for your new hobby for FOUR to FIVE MONTHS. That person isn't gonna be pissed? That person isn't gonna feel deflated cause they have nothing to look forward to for almost half a year? Hopefully they weren't thinking about tournament or competitive play, ( I mean its possible but it sure as **** would be a all uphill battle) .

Not for nothing but if I were starting a new game and I was told I would only have 3 units to play with for 4 or 5 months, 1) I'd be pissed, 2) I'd wait to buy anything until I actually had options.

FFG does a lot of things that seem like it would be awesome, but they somehow fumble the execution.

It’s a shame really. I wish they would hire someone that just looks out for the small details that were missed. The devil is in the details after all.😈

[ScummyRebel 5,346]

6 hours ago, Galahax said:

In terms of the Clone Wars release schedule, i hear a lot of  existing people with comments that are focusing on themselves. "Gives me time to catch up on painting", "gives my wallet a break" and so on.

So what about the new player? What about the people that are specifically joining Legion and growing our game BECAUSE of Clone Wars? Think about this...That person has been excited now for months waiting to get into the game, experienced table top guy or not. You were told in a past interview that your faction would have an aggressive schedule to catch up to the existing two. You pick up a Core set now, or a month from now (since beginning of September seems to be the new word). Then you come to realize that you wont be seeing ANY new things for your new hobby for FOUR to FIVE MONTHS. That person isn't gonna be pissed? That person isn't gonna feel deflated cause they have nothing to look forward to for almost half a year? Hopefully they weren't thinking about tournament or competitive play, ( I mean its possible but it sure as **** would be a all uphill battle) .

Not for nothing but if I were starting a new game and I was told I would only have 3 units to play with for 4 or 5 months, 1) I'd be pissed, 2) I'd wait to buy anything until I actually had options.

Well, when I think about back when Legion was a brand new game.... I only had 4 things to play with for a while - Vader, stormtroopers, bike, and ATST. I wasn’t able to go back out and buy more of the new minis the moment they came out.

So I guess, that’s not much different than this generation. It didn’t bother me that much then. Maybe it’s the same for these other new players? Take your time escalating up to 800 points?

It may not be what you wanted, but I was ok with gradually getting new into Legion then and I’d be the same way now. 

[GreatMazinkaiser 1,335]

#FirstWorldProblems

Jeez, I was using the same Eldar army for ten years without a constant stream of new releases... Surely waiting a bit for more shelf clutter to buy is acceptable.

[devin.pike.1989 1,546]

48 minutes ago, GreatMazinkaiser said:

#FirstWorldProblems

Jeez, I was using the same Eldar army for ten years without a constant stream of new releases... Surely waiting a bit for more shelf clutter to buy is acceptable.

Lots of Veruca Salts in this thread...

[arnoldrew 1,713]

10 hours ago, azeronbloodmoone said:

everything is spur from now on to allow more custom models

...Both the first and last part of that sentence are not true. The article lists what is and isn't in hard plastic. Off the top of my head, the two new commanders are both in baggies. Second, it is not "to allow more custom models." I assume you mean head swaps like Sabine, who is not in hard plastic. It's mostly that the Droids really couldn't even be produced in a satisfactory manner with the old stuff, and they might as well make everything in the same material.

[Tubb 163]

11 hours ago, syrath said:

On top of the fact it isn't all the releases that have been announced (the leak stole some thunder from the Operatives). X -wing has been the consistent no1 on sales for 3 or 4 years for wargames albeit this is based on sales from FLGS only.  it's been this way since launch pretty much. This is just one website there were similar results for sales in the UK and Europe (Europe being stronger for FFG vs Games Workshop than the Uk)

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/03/industry-the-top-5-miniatures-games-2017.html

I am sorry, got some news about this:

 

https://icv2.com/articles/markets/view/43733/top-5-non-collectible-miniature-games-spring-2019

 

And this is in spring 2019