How do samurai get money?

[wastevens 21]

Your damiyo should provide for all your material needs. Practical gifts are seen as insulting. Samurai have very little nominal need for money.

But if they have an opium habit, or like to gamble, or to patronize in demand geisha or prostitutes - they need money.

So, how do samurai *get* money?

[AtoMaki 1,431]

Technically each samurai has an established "worth" that sums up their status and importance in monetary terms. Once can be a "200 koku samurai" (a simple guard) or a "20000 koku samurai" (a respected senior official) or a "200000 koku samurai" (a powerful daimyo). The samurai is supposed to have their "worth" with them all the time. So that guard has 200 koku stowed away in a box somewhere in their house, most likely in a great variety of different coinage.

The guard can spend that koku on whatever he wants, but they will only get more if their "worth" increases due to a promotion or them being relocated to guard an important room (at which point the guard becomes a "300 koku samurai"). So if they run out of money they should start chasing more status or favor to increase their "worth" thus gain more money. 

Alternatively, they can just ask from a friend. The guard might need 20 koku for a geisha, so they look up their official friend and ask for 20 koku. The official cares little for 20 koku with their 20k "worth" so they happily help out their friend. Later on the official might invoke the 20 koku to ask something from the guard, like look away when a shinobi sneaks through the door, and disowning the obligation is obviously very unwise and dishonorable, but that's an issue for the future. If no such friend is available then the guard can look up a professional moneylender to get that 20 koku, but this is extremely unsafe because only the fortunes know what the moneylender will ask for in return. 

A third option is to liquidate assets. If the guard bought a house for 100 koku from their 200 koku "worth" then they can give up the house and redeem the 100 koku at will. 

They can also wait to receive a stipend from their lord, essentially an annual reward for their overall yearly service. It is most likely not a whole lot of money tho. The 200 koku guard might receive as little as 1-2 koku this way per year. 

[Tonbo Karasu 2,606]

There's also this thread:

 

[Scrivener Spills 122]

ask for it, gamble for it, kill a merchant on the road and take it. 

[Suzume Chikahisa 313]

9 hours ago, wastevens said:

Your damiyo should provide for all your material needs. Practical gifts are seen as insulting. Samurai have very little nominal need for money.

But if they have an opium habit, or like to gamble, or to patronize in demand geisha or prostitutes - they need money.

So, how do samurai *get* money?

Every samurai in service will either:

a) Have a stipend.

b) Have a revenue producing domain.

c) All of the above.

 

Incidentally, this is the exact some response that you would get about any other Warrior/Aristocrat in any society and time period.

[Magnus Grendel 11,673]

Also, asking your lord for money for the task you're supposed to be doing - let's say "go to the capital, negotiate a trade deal with the crane clan, and come back here" - is not unreasonable.

If you get a purse of a few dozen koku that your lord considered a reasonable 'expenses budget' for the task, then provided you don't fail, they're not going to care too much if you don't bring any back.

Whether that's because you spent it on a gift for the crane diplomat to get the treaty in the first place, on bribing officials to smooth the paperwork over, on slightly better accommodation than your lord probably assumed you stayed in during the negotiations, on a celebratory evening with some easily impressed young courtiers after getting the treaty, or it's still in your back pocket and you plan on using it a few weeks from now to wager on the upcoming tournament, why should they care?

It's not precisely defrauding them; the cost to them is something they already agreed was reasonable and you got the result for them that you promised to get.

[Scrivener Spills 122]

5 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Also, asking your lord for money for the task you're supposed to be doing - let's say "go to the capital, negotiate a trade deal with the crane clan, and come back here" - is not unreasonable.

If you get a purse of a few dozen koku that your lord considered a reasonable 'expenses budget' for the task, then provided you don't fail, they're not going to care too much if you don't bring any back.

Whether that's because you spent it on a gift for the crane diplomat to get the treaty in the first place, on bribing officials to smooth the paperwork over, on slightly better accommodation than your lord probably assumed you stayed in during the negotiations, on a celebratory evening with some easily impressed young courtiers after getting the treaty, or it's still in your back pocket and you plan on using it a few weeks from now to wager on the upcoming tournament, why should they care?

It's not precisely defrauding them; the cost to them is something they already agreed was reasonable and you got the result for them that you promised to get.

And thats one of the benefits of the idea of money and commerce being seen as below a Samurai.  No one asks for expense reports or receipts! 

[Suzume Chikahisa 313]

8 hours ago, Scrivener Spills said:

And thats one of the benefits of the idea of money and commerce being seen as below a Samurai.  No one asks for expense reports or receipts! 

You'd be surprised. The societies that l5r sources were incredibly bureaucratic.

[sakieh 36]

On 7/31/2019 at 6:52 PM, Suzume Chikahisa said:

You'd be surprised. The societies that l5r sources were incredibly bureaucratic.

At the same time, there are differences.  Remember that it USED to be a special School ability that Yasuki, Yoritomo, and Kasuga Courtiers could use the Commerce Skill without losing Glory. A Samurai usually had a servant who would carry and hand out the coinage for them, not the Samurai themself.

That said, I believe, in general, it depends on the Lord. Clans I would imagine requiring LESS of an accounting of exactly where the money went would tend towards the Crane, Tortoise, and Dragon. The ones I would expect to be the STRICTEST on book-keeping would be Scorpion(black mail material), the Crab(resource poor, so need to know where everything is going), and the Mantis(Merchants and pirates, both renowned RL for...depth of book-keeping). Other Clans, I figure would most just want a couple major expenses, then hand wave if you say "And a bunch of things too minor to remember." Like: Ikoma Swindler tells Akodo Trusting Lord that of the 12 Koku he was given, he spend 5 on batch of specific tea as a gift for the Phoenix Courtier, 3 on rooming near the Phoenix Embassy in Otosan Iuchi, and then 5 on "Those small, but necessary, purchases needed to curry favour with the forthright and honest Phoenix" when he was really using on Geisha and time in the Tea House...

[Aldyramon 25]

I will handle it like described in the book "Shogun" by James Clavell, even if it is not necessary canon. Every Samurai get an land grant which he needs to protect/administer and is entitled to its production (minus taxes etc). For starting characters this will be a little village, but could get upgraded depending on how the characters raise in the social standing.

Everything concerning money is not handled by the Samurai directly but by his wife/housekeeper/etc...

 

I find this a very stylish solution and it will keep the bookkeeping to a minimum.