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mwknowles

"It's not that bad" - Location

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10 hours ago, Daeglan said:

Better than many other RPG companies. But as others have pointed out this talent is an out of turn incidental. Ie it is something that takes almost no time. So it does not require any kind of examination. Which it is clear you want. You act like you were robbed of a crit. That really is not a good attitude in this game. This game is not you vs. Your players. But you kind of act like your game is you vs. Your players. 

I have been GMing for over 35 years and know how to play! I also recognise a broken rule which clearly you don't. I have allowed this rule to be used with reasonable line of sight or closer. Anything else is a magical effect and frankly a childish interpretation of the rules.

Now your personal attacks on me indicate your childish and pathetic action. "Your kind"? How dare you assume anything about me. You're a bully.

As for my games..... Zero complaints and lots of requests to join.

As for how I play. None of your business.

As for my post. I was interested in what others thought. I assumed I'd find stable individuals. I then found you.

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3 hours ago, Desslok said:

Exactly. At the end of the day, it's just one crit. Well timed against the right crit at the right moment and it could be a game changer, but it's still just one crit out of many.

Sure I'm of the belief that there should be some kind of interaction with the wound in question - a glance assessment would be enough (more however than the stated "I roll over from being sound asleep and say the words") - but the talent is more designed to make the battlefield doctor a super cool badass at the top of his game. The GM should work with the player to that end (and visa versa).

And there you have it.....

 

"Sure I'm of the belief that there should be some kind of interaction with the wound in question - a glance assessment would be enough."

Exactly my point. The doctor must inspect the wound some how. He's not Thanos able to click his fingers and it's healed.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, mwknowles said:

I have been GMing for over 35 years and know how to play! I also recognise a broken rule which clearly you don't. I have allowed this rule to be used with reasonable line of sight or closer. Anything else is a magical effect and frankly a childish interpretation of the rules.

Now your personal attacks on me indicate your childish and pathetic action. "Your kind"? How dare you assume anything about me. You're a bully.

As for my games..... Zero complaints and lots of requests to join.

As for how I play. None of your business.

As for my post. I was interested in what others thought. I assumed I'd find stable individuals. I then found you.

Broken? How so? Once per session. Hard medicine check at 25 xp for an out of turn incidental. It is not broken. No one else here sees it as broken. You act very much like a GM who really wanted to crit his player and your player used a talent to prevent it and not you are mad. It isnt even that hard to crit in this system so i dont know why you are complaining.

In fact i have been on these boards since the Beta. And never have i heard one complaint about this talent befor you.

Edited by Daeglan

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10 minutes ago, mwknowles said:

And there you have it.....

 

"Sure I'm of the belief that there should be some kind of interaction with the wound in question - a glance assessment would be enough."

Exactly my point. The doctor must inspect the wound some how. He's not Thanos able to click his fingers and it's healed.

The talent doesn't heal an injury. It retcons an injury. The injury was never there. There is no injury to inspect.

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2 hours ago, mwknowles said:

Exactly my point. The doctor must inspect the wound some how. He's not Thanos able to click his fingers and it's healed.

Now that said. . . . if I were handling Bad Motivator/It's Not That Bad/Etc, I'd be pretty loosey goosey with what "inspect" meant. Did the doctor have a medical tracker wrist unit keeping tabs on the squad (think what they had in the APC in Aliens, but smaller and more portable)? That would do from across the battlefield, well out of line of sight. I'd even take "Oh stop whining, you baby. That was clearly the sound of a Blastech L7. Those things don't have the stopping power to drop an Ee. You'll be fine." as a justification. Anything the player comes up with, run with.

Pretty much it comes down not to "I activate my talent", but "Here is how I activate my talent".

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6 hours ago, Desslok said:

Now that said. . . . if I were handling Bad Motivator/It's Not That Bad/Etc, I'd be pretty loosey goosey with what "inspect" meant. Did the doctor have a medical tracker wrist unit keeping tabs on the squad (think what they had in the APC in Aliens, but smaller and more portable)? That would do from across the battlefield, well out of line of sight. I'd even take "Oh stop whining, you baby. That was clearly the sound of a Blastech L7. Those things don't have the stopping power to drop an Ee. You'll be fine." as a justification. Anything the player comes up with, run with.

Pretty much it comes down not to "I activate my talent", but "Here is how I activate my talent".

Mate there are literally infinite options that COULD have been used but all involve some obvservation of some kind. Regardless of how it's done. Just rolling over in a tent isnt one.

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Every group or GM should play as it/he likes and homerule as it´s best to their likes.

As stated before, to me, this talent is not a force power or a magical spell.

For me, the medic soldier has to attend to the victim personally and due to his high skill/talent (actually performing a medicine check) prevents the critical hit and all what remains is the actual hit, loss of wt. To do so in some cases he needs to cross the battlefield and perhaps might not be able to do so and help the other guy. This opens up for a lot of drama and good roleplay. Just standing somewhere and saying that it´s not so bad to get the effect just feels ridiculus to me.

Ultimately it´s your play and you have the final word.

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1 hour ago, dreenan said:

For me, the medic soldier has to attend to the victim personally and due to his high skill/talent (actually performing a medicine check) prevents the critical hit and all what remains is the actual hit, loss of wt.

He is not preventing the critical hit, or healing it with medicine. The crit does not happen. 
The player thinks he is taken a crit, then the Doc says he is fine. It's not a procedure, it's a false positive assumption of the crit.


"- Ah, my leg, it burns, they blasted right through it!" 
"- You spilt your hot caf, jackass. Now shoot back!"

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"Once per session when an ally would suffer a Critical Injury, may take an It’s Not That Bad action; make a ddd Medicine check to stop the ally from gaining the Critical Injury. " AoR CRB page 92

I still go with my definition/interpretation. The medicine check does avoid the crit.

Your example´s dialogue is still valid though

 

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4 hours ago, dreenan said:

"Once per session when an ally would suffer a Critical Injury, may take an It’s Not That Bad action; make a ddd Medicine check to stop the ally from gaining the Critical Injury. " AoR CRB page 92

I still go with my definition/interpretation. The medicine check does avoid the crit.

Your example´s dialogue is still valid though

 

You are right, I know mechanically, it's a medicine check, it's based on his expertise. But it's not a procedure, therefore no need for contact or operation table or anything. That was my point. If he knows the victim "got" a crit by any means, (sensor, line of sight, Force bond, hearing, smelling, anything) i'd allow it.

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Activation: Active (Incidental; Out Of Turn)
Ranked: No
Trees: Medic

Once per game session, when an ally is about to suffer a critical injury, the character can take an It's Not That Bad incidental to make a Hard Medicine check. If successful, the ally does not gain the Critical Injury and does not suffer any of its normal effects (although the attack that caused the Critical Injury still deals its damage as normal).



Unlike every talent that actually requires you to be adjacent and says so, there is no range or adjacency requirement, no requirement to do anything to or with the subject, or even any requirement to banter about it.

Nor is the medic assessing or treating anything. The critical effect is outright removed from the incoming attack just before the attack actually lands.

So yes, it is one of several similar (and mostly non-force) talents that are effectively narrative magic spells.

And that's a perfectly normal thing in space opera.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Garran said:

Unlike every talent that actually requires you to be adjacent and says so, there is no range or adjacency requirement, no requirement to do anything to or with the subject, or even any requirement to banter about it.

There's also no requirement to come up with cool and interesting ways to pass a Blue Die onto the next player when someone spends an advantage to do so other than saying "I spend my advantage to give Bob a boost die". But it's kind of implied in the DNA of the game that you (be you PC or GM) do just that.

Edited by Desslok

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5 hours ago, Garran said:

Activation: Active (Incidental; Out Of Turn)
Ranked: No
Trees: Medic

Once per game session, when an ally is about to suffer a critical injury, the character can take an It's Not That Bad incidental to make a Hard Medicine check. If successful, the ally does not gain the Critical Injury and does not suffer any of its normal effects (although the attack that caused the Critical Injury still deals its damage as normal).



Unlike every talent that actually requires you to be adjacent and says so, there is no range or adjacency requirement, no requirement to do anything to or with the subject, or even any requirement to banter about it.

Nor is the medic assessing or treating anything. The critical effect is outright removed from the incoming attack just before the attack actually lands.

So yes, it is one of several similar (and mostly non-force) talents that are effectively narrative magic spells.

And that's a perfectly normal thing in space opera.

Ok so what distance or contact would you not allow?

Would you allow it over a few km? Maybe in a different part of the star shop? How about a different city? What about star system? What about different sector?

 

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3 hours ago, Desslok said:

There's also no requirement to come up with cool and interesting ways to pass a Blue Die onto the next player when someone spends an advantage to do so other than saying "I spend my advantage to give Bob a boost die". But it's kind of implied in the DNA of the game that you (be you PC or GM) do just that.

Exactly. The examples include "your shot hits a pipe showering the enemy in sparks" have a blue die. Most of the time no one bothers unless they have an idea

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I want to also point out that the incidental conditions include the ability to take a "small movemen". Which to be (and I can't stress that enough) sounds like the 5' step action in DnD. So asking a pc to at least look out of his tent isnt unreasonable. Contrary to some.

3 hours ago, Stan Fresh said:

We're on a rapid approach to copypasta territory, folks.

Yes you're correct. I apologise.

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9 minutes ago, mwknowles said:

I want to also point out that the incidental conditions include the ability to take a "small movemen". Which to be (and I can't stress that enough) sounds like the 5' step action in DnD. So asking a pc to at least look out of his tent isnt unreasonable. Contrary to some.

Yes you're correct. I apologise.

A 5' step would be a move maneuver in this system. It's going from Short to Engaged range (or vice versa). It's not an incidental. An incidental "movement" would be turning right or left, but not actually going any distance. 

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It's not a maneuver or an action. Incidentals take no real effort or time: Dropping an item, flipping the stun setting on a blaster, talking.

Look at the armorer's Supreme Armor master, also an out of turn incidental. He doesn't have to 'do' anything other than spend 3 strain and *poof*, a lesser crit. Anything else the player adds is just flavor.  Combine it with durable and unstoppable and a player regularly takes no crits. There are other talents as well that 'magically' alter the narrative.

By RAW, the medic can be sitting at the Mos Eisley cantina, enjoying a correllian ale, flirting with the barmaid, prevent a crit, and not even take a setback on his charm check.

Telling the guy to rub some dirt on it and he'll check on it later is just a fluffy bonus.

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5 hours ago, mwknowles said:

Exactly. The examples include "your shot hits a pipe showering the enemy in sparks" have a blue die. Most of the time no one bothers unless they have an idea

You are right, the problem that you asked for a mechanical limitation,  not a narrative.

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On 8/6/2019 at 4:45 PM, mwknowles said:

Ok so what distance or contact would you not allow?

Would you allow it over a few km? Maybe in a different part of the star shop? How about a different city? What about star system? What about different sector?

 

You could instead think of it as Table distance. As in two players at the same table. That's the distance I'd allow this talent's use.

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Posted (edited)
On 8/5/2019 at 11:50 PM, mwknowles said:

Anything else is a magical effect and frankly a childish interpretation of the rules.

Now your personal attacks on me indicate your childish and pathetic action. "Your kind"? How dare you assume anything about me. You're a bully.

I think you're being unnecessarily hostile here. The person you're quoting said "[url=https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/kind of]you kind of[/url] act", not "your kind".

 

You came here to get opinions from other players. Some of us disagree with you: that's not childish or bullying. (And whilst you're more than welcome to join any game I run, let me say I have no interest in joining a game you are GMing.)

 

I acknowledge you apologised, and I understand you're frustrated. But the Talent does-what-it-does, Rules As Written. You can houserule it if you like.

On 8/4/2019 at 4:18 AM, mwknowles said:

Yes but they must at least inspect the wound to make a judgement.

 

Disagree. There's nothing in the text to support that: that's purely your inference and exactly the reasoning I used around my Gearhead example ("how can having a GEARhead help if it runs on crystals instead of gears").

 

The players should be engaging with the system in a way that's narratively interesting and fun. I love the idea of a grouchy old medic refusing to get out of bed to tend to his friends under fire. It reeks of the pulp that makes space opera great. It's MASH on the Millennium Falcon. It's Han Fonzy-ing the hyperdrive instead of meticulously taking it apart and running a diagnostic.

 

"I'VE BEEN SHOT!"

"Would everyone please stop getting shot, I'm hung-over."

 

Do you really think:

"I open the curtain to my tent, squint into the darkness and realise the wound isn't serious so go back to bed. *cut back to the action*"

Would be more interesting in a Star Wars movie than:

"As his comrade yelps out in pain, the hardbitten medic rolls over in his sleep murmuring 'it's not that bad' out of the practiced habit of a lifetime treating blaster wounds. *cut back to the action*"

 

I see the first scene as dull, and the theatre chuckling at the relief in the second scene. (Unless, you know, you REALLY hammed up the first scene but we're going for OT pulp not PT slapstick here.)

 

The FFG aren't simulationist. It's not about faithfully recreating a world. It's about telling a story.

 

You're perfectly entitled to house-rule. You're almost obligated to encourage good role-play. I applaud you for coming here to ask the question (and apologising when things got heated). But at my table, I'd not only let the player do this, I'd give them a free white point for making me laugh.

Edited by JohnDoe244

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I see the first scene as dull, and the theatre chuckling at the relief in the second scene.

Well, to be honest, I would be sitting in the theatre and do a facepalm to both of your versions. Both scenes are far too off to me.

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Posted (edited)

When the player is using it from a distance or with our a good look,  let him.  But increase the difficulty,  give set backs and or upgrades.

The Dr. Is across the yard and can see that Billy was shot and yells over.  It's ok, walk it off.

Upgrade the difficulty since he is far away and can truly see the injury.

Add set backs since Billy knows that he can't see it accurately.

Upgrade the check he told me this  last time and I was pissing blood for a week. 

Or let him use the ability but change the skill from medicine to deception,  since he is really just lying at this point. 

Possible suggestions.

Edited by damnkid3

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