L5R RPG at Gencon

[neilcell 74]

Sorry if I seem a little silly, but does anyone know if there will be a Legend of the Five Rings event(s) at GenCon in Indy?  I am kicking myself that I missed the Kyotei Castle event last year.  I might cough up the $50 entrance fee to participate in a similar event.

[Hydraxus 24]

They appear to - a scenario called the Highwayman, but it all looks sold out?
https://www.gencon.com/event_finder?game=Legend+of+the+Five+Rings+RPG

Edited July 30 by player3906560

[KakitaKaori 140]

There is, but it sold out very quickly.

[Magnus Grendel 9,811]

I'm hoping we might get an upload of it after the fact, like we did with Kyotei Castle.

[Scrivener Spills 115]

I'm sure there will be people there running one shots unofficially as well. 

[UnitOmega 2,510]

Assuming this will be like Kyotei and it has story ramifications, yeah, we'll probably see results plus a release as a free web thing.

Also in-flight tonight, everybody fingers crossed for RPG news. 

[neilcell 74]

15 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

I'm hoping we might get an upload of it after the fact, like we did with Kyotei Castle.

Same here. I was just hoping to get in on the action of in-game decision making.  I was disappointed by the results of the Kyotei scenario.  The one bright spot was that one group went for a negotiated solution rather than the "let's kill them all" either or results that most of the groups came to.

One "negotiated solution" that I saw in a home version of Kyotei had Doji Ren stepping in to woo Shiba Itsuyo after Doji Takashi played "Runaway Bridge".   Was interesting that it became something of a double marriage with two Cranes getting hitched at the same time.  Needless to say, the disgruntled Tsume Crane pissed at Takashi were given an opportunity to swear their oaths to the union of Ren-Itsuyo.  The balance of power was maintained in part because the Crane garrison effectively relocated to Nikesake so that the combined Phoenix-Crane forces rendered the Lion claims on the castle itself pointless.  Yes, the castle was returned to Lion hands, but the Crane and Phoenix still held the valley.  The Phoenix got their military alliance, the Crane saved face, and the Lion were vexed without wasteful loss of life save for Nasu no Shiba Shizuma who put his ego before the needs of his clan and his lord.

[UnitOmega 2,510]

Kind of sad about no real news out of Gencon (In the Q&A they said support is continuing but, I'm pretty sure anybody who knows numbers knew that was obvious). Genesys badly needed the support, but I feels kind of sad to see very minimal push for IP FFG owns outright. I got my star wars fix but was left wanting in other regards. Hopefully maybe an announcement before the convention is over?

[Magnus Grendel 9,811]

2 hours ago, UnitOmega said:

but I feels kind of sad to see very minimal push for IP FFG owns outright.

Legend of the Five Rings is a wonderful setting - I really hope it continues getting pushed.

I was pleased to see the new Crab LCG expansion artwork. Hida O-Ushi is one of my Wife's favourite characters in the setting since reading A Good Little Wife, and the awesome new artwork for her (shown wearing actual armour rather than falling out of about half a suit of one) doesn't hurt, either:

7 hours ago, neilcell said:

Same here. I was just hoping to get in on the action of in-game decision making.

Indeed. I do like the whole 'living world' aspect of the story decisions by LCG winners, and I like the idea of RPG players at key events getting to make some too. I get that making big shifts to the world is unlikely, but it'd still be nice to see an impact - something like adding Tsume no Doji Itsuyo to the LCG as a crane Daimyo, for example.

Most of the card game players wouldn't know why she's significant, but the RPG players would.

 

[Kaiju 119]

So we havent seen any new book announced after the last one is already out and about. This doesnt look good  The development cycle for the RPG wasnt the fastest, and this puts at least another month or so between releases, if not jeopardizing the entire line.

[Avatar111 448]

11 minutes ago, Kaiju said:

So we havent seen any new book announced after the last one is already out and about. This doesnt look good  The development cycle for the RPG wasnt the fastest, and this puts at least another month or so between releases, if not jeopardizing the entire line.

It is fast enough. We already have a lot of material. I would be ok with even slower for more polish or focus on erratas.

[narukagami 105]

2 hours ago, Kaiju said:

So we havent seen any new book announced after the last one is already out and about. This doesnt look good  The development cycle for the RPG wasnt the fastest, and this puts at least another month or so between releases, if not jeopardizing the entire line.

Easy there Chicken Little, the sky isn't falling just because the pace of books slows a little.

[Magnus Grendel 9,811]

Indeed. Since each release 'drop' looks like it's consisting of a sourcebook  plus an adventure book plus a DLC teaser, that's a fair chunk of work - especially given the high production art values. I'd like to see the next release announced, but if we only end up with 1-2 per year, I'm fine with that.

[Avatar111 448]

In all honesty. I think they know they don't have a hit game. Not that many industry awards or nods, plus, sometimes, I feel it was barely able to win most players from previous editions, and that, despite being nothing less than a tour de force by the graphic art dept.

They have data now, they can pretty much estimate how many copies they will sell of a new books. They will proceed according to that. Expect to see a little bit less new art, a little bit less polish, and a even more hastily put together rules. That would be the smart business move to do at this point, ride on the wave of the current playerbase that will buy any new release, produce at lowest cost possible, put junior designers on the project, and keep it going for as long as it at least doesn't go under.

Sorry for the negativity!

[neilcell 74]

2 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Indeed. Since each release 'drop' looks like it's consisting of a sourcebook  plus an adventure book plus a DLC teaser, that's a fair chunk of work - especially given the high production art values. I'd like to see the next release announced, but if we only end up with 1-2 per year, I'm fine with that.

I agree.  Tease us about the next product line's subject matter(such as the next  one being focused on the Dragon clan), but I am okay with it sitting  on the "in development" tab for about a year or so.

[UnitOmega 2,510]

So,  L5R hasn't been out a year - and already it's had 3 sourcebooks, two adventures, Beginner Box, GM Kit, numerous web-supplements and technically a story related event in it. I have seen some retail data that it sells very well and it's had to be reprinted several times. The product line is not in a bad way. Genesys, for comparison, has been out at least twice as long, and only has two sourcebooks - which is why it's good they announced basically two more, the GM screen and an official community project. So, L5R could be worse.

My comment earlier was more how that L5R is an IP FFG owns wholly, not a license like Star Wars or the Marvel LCG they announced, but center stage at Gencon, didn't really have anything for it. They announced the Crab Clan pack before hand, and so far no news or updates on old or new products besides "we're doing it for at least another year". Is a little bit disappointing considering we previously had a very good eye on news, and a lot of people are also a bit disappointed in how marketing has been handling the pace of story releases lately. But, we also aren't the minis fans, who are now complaining about how many releases they got, and what order they're in, so. 

[narukagami 105]

1 minute ago, UnitOmega said:

Genesys, for comparison, has been out at least twice as long, and only has two sourcebooks - which is why it's good they announced basically two more, the GM screen and an official community project. So, L5R could be worse.

I'm actually pretty sure this is a major reason there's a "slowdown" in L5R announcements, actually. While L5R got a whole bunch of stuff (relatively) rapidly, Genesys was getting jack squat, and now Genesys is about to get a ton of support while L5R (as far as we know) is getting a break. FFG only has so many employees, time, and resources to devote to RPG products.

[sakieh 33]

On 8/1/2019 at 12:58 PM, narukagami said:

I'm actually pretty sure this is a major reason there's a "slowdown" in L5R announcements, actually. While L5R got a whole bunch of stuff (relatively) rapidly, Genesys was getting jack squat, and now Genesys is about to get a ton of support while L5R (as far as we know) is getting a break. FFG only has so many employees, time, and resources to devote to RPG products.

I would also say that with Emerald Empire, Shadowlands, and Courts of Stone, they have released the three "key" supplements, the ones that HAD to get out: Main Culture for people new to the setting, the big antagonists book, and the book on how things work in Court. Also, the Crab and the Crane are kind of the "simplest" Clans to explain the culture of. The approach they are using of A Great Clan, a Minor Clan, Themed Content relating to the other two, and a bit of adventure content, means these likely take more resources to do. I favoured 4th Editions focused but stately release schedule of 2 books a year(one in summer, one in winter), because it gave me time to get the book ordered, and budgeted for.

[Hida Jitenno 511]

Yeah, I just want an announcement about the next book. I genuinely don't care how long I have to wait for it, I just want to know something is coming. I'm wondering are sales not meeting their expectations, so they're shelving it, or are they just slowing the release schedule to balance it with their other projects?

[Avatar111 448]

2 hours ago, Hida Jitenno said:

Yeah, I just want an announcement about the next book. I genuinely don't care how long I have to wait for it, I just want to know something is coming. I'm wondering are sales not meeting their expectations, so they're shelving it, or are they just slowing the release schedule to balance it with their other projects?

Doubt they will shelve it.

But it will be budgeted according to its potential revenues; more reused arts, junior staff, less people working on it etc.

I just don't see this game as having a big following in the rpg world, for many reasons, most of them being related to mechanical design issues past its very good core system.

Edited August 4 by Avatar111

[T_Kageyasu 110]

On 8/1/2019 at 8:46 AM, Avatar111 said:

Sorry for the negativity!

I'm going to ask for a sincerity check there! 😉

[Magnus Grendel 9,811]

15 hours ago, Avatar111 said:

But it will be budgeted according to its potential revenues; more reused arts, junior staff, less people working on it etc.

The art, at least, has a continuous source to draw from - we have been getting regular announcements for the LCG, and the RPG can afford to steal with pride for a good proportion of the art; it's only really the maps and big 'cover-sheet' artwork which needs bespoke work, which could be as little as 2-3 pieces for a two-book-and-download 'package'.

The Genesys 'Foundry' - basically opening the system 'label' to third-party publishers - is cool. Given the comparatively controlled L5R world (given the ongoing plotlines it's far more a 'narrative' than a 'setting' - like GW's Horus Heresy rather than generic Warhammer 40,000 settings, if you'll pardon the analogy) I'd be surprised to see them  do the same.

An RPG adventure competition might be good fun, though; they used to run a semi-regular one for Dark Heresy & Rogue Trader, and some of the winners and honourable mentions were at least as good as the 'official' adventures (in fact, this being - what? - a decade ago or more, it wouldn't surprise me if some of FFGs - or Ulisses, or Cubicle 7 - writers are people who won those things).

 

.....In fact, you know, we could actually try something like that on the forum. The L5R fanzine used to include little adventure seeds and one-shot mini-adventures badged as 'challenge/focus/strike'. I could see something similar being good fun and a nice resource for aspiring (or harassed and short-of-time) GMs.

Edited August 5 by Magnus Grendel

[Aldyramon 24]

Just to add: FFG bought the rights to L5R, not just a license. So they don't have to pay royalties, also they have to make a lot of art for the LCG in any case. They should have an interest to invest in the growth of the L5R trademark. Therefore I don't think the RPG line will be discontinued or anything.

 

 

[sakieh 33]

27 minutes ago, Aldyramon said:

Just to add: FFG bought the rights to L5R, not just a license. So they don't have to pay royalties, also they have to make a lot of art for the LCG in any case. They should have an interest to invest in the growth of the L5R trademark. Therefore I don't think the RPG line will be discontinued or anything.

 

 

I think this is something people really need to remember. But, I also think they have a reason to go a little slower: Heroes of Rokugan is doing their current campaign using the 4th Edition. I totally expect when Heroes of the Ivory Throne ends, and they change to the new edition, there will be a pick up. Nothing stimulates interest in a game like an organized play group. See: Pathfinder Society, Adventurers' League, CGL Demo Agents, the old GW Rogue Traders and Privateer Press Gangs.

I also think they are keeping a release pace that is designed for sustainability. They seem to normally announce products when they are sent to the printers(given the time from book announce to book on shelf) with exceptions like corebooks that are getting betas. If they gave us fans everything we wanted right now, there would be trouble with fans having to budget for the books, their writers having issues with burn out, and flooding the market. I can say that, right now, when my FLGS gets a new L5R book, it sells within the week. However, a bunch of the Star Wars books have been sitting on the shelves for months, because of how fast they were coming out for a while. 

[Avatar111 448]

Not a question of quantity.

It is more a question of polish. Courts of Stone is really stuffed with issues. There are only a few rules in there but so many things that do not make sense.

So despite the lore writing still being of decent quality, with obviously having a lot of past material to help. The system design is totally becoming a mess. It was already shaky, with many weaker areas, but it had hopes..Instead of making it better, now, they mostly just throw random numbers on paper and call it a day... It is becoming atrocious, instead of improving and helping the system get better, they are making it weaker. I think this was the obvious sign to me of them giving up on spending too much time/money/brain on the project.